The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[TIWIT]

5 minutes ago, TheReaper said:

I get what you're saying, but even with the best planning - how would you be with 6 moths of no income? I know I'd be screwed, and I do plan and save. And I make a comfortable living, by the sounds of it a lot of players make a lot less than me so it could be tough to save even without living extravagantly at all.

If it was was 2-4 weeks and players were defaulting on rent etc I could see some criticism of money management. But not after months and months and months.

I entirely agree. I could go maybe 3 months but after that...

And I have no idea what kind of money these guys were earning. I kind of assumed they were on the low-end of the pay-scale and maybe they were living paycheque-to-paycheque. I think we've all been there.

But most here who attack my point of view also don't want TWP back. So if not LiVolsi then who is going to give these players their back pay?

Silence.

[TheReaper]

Just now, TIWIT said:

But most here who attack my point of view also don't want TWP back. So if not LiVolsi then who is going to give these players their back pay?

Yeah that's been abundantly clear on here for a while. The sheer amount of aspersions cast on LiVolsi on this forum, based on what meetings he was or wasn't at and presentations that no one has seen, is kind of astounding. 

 

 

[Robin Evans]

5 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

 

But most here who attack my point of view also don't want TWP back. So if not LiVolsi then who is going to give these players their back pay?

Silence.

What cobblers. I attack your view because I think its irrelevant.  Show me anywhere on this thread where I have said I don't want twp back. Stop playing the victim.

If livolsi doesn't get the gig the players get nak all. That will be Argyles doing.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, TIWIT said:

I 'suggested' some players should have taken better care of their money. You know, create a budget, save a little, like most people do. Their playing careers are short so an athlete has to be salting some away. Some clearly didn't and are paying the price now. I sympathise with them. They have earned their money and deserve to be paid, but I also believe they have to bear some responsibility for managing their money.

And I repeat, if LiVolsi is not given a chance, who's going to pay them? 

No, they bear no responsibility for their employer being a charlatan.

[Damien]

14 minutes ago, TheReaper said:

Yeah that's been abundantly clear on here for a while. The sheer amount of aspersions cast on LiVolsi on this forum, based on what meetings he was or wasn't at and presentations that no one has seen, is kind of astounding. 

 

 

I wouldn't tar everyone because of the very repetitive, and obsessed, actions of half a dozen people.

[TIWIT]

17 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

What cobblers. I attack your view because I think its irrelevant.  Show me anywhere on this thread where I have said I don't want twp back. Stop playing the victim.

If livolsi doesn't get the gig the players get nak all. That will be Argyles doing.

Don't have to. Do you want TWP readmitted or not?

Argyle is irrelevant. He's gone, just like his money and his reputation.

[TIWIT]

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

No, they bear no responsibility for their employer being a charlatan.

And your answer to my last question is...

[RobertAM]

26 minutes ago, TheReaper said:

Yeah that's been abundantly clear on here for a while. The sheer amount of aspersions cast on LiVolsi on this forum, based on what meetings he was or wasn't at and presentations that no one has seen, is kind of astounding. 

 

 

If he gets the GA and thinks get back on track I will be the first in line to carry LiVolsi around Lamport on my shoulders and I bet the lineup to do the next laps will be a long one.

[Robin Evans]

19 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Don't have to. Do you want TWP readmitted or not?

Argyle is irrelevant. He's gone, just like his money and his reputation.

I want the RL/SL to make the right decision on twp. They should not be afraid in rejecting them if that is the utilitarian thing to do.

Similarly, if its the right thing to do, then get them back in..... but given past performance on and off field I'd hope they attach protective caveats.... caution is natural.

Personally, I think a team in a European league thousands of miles and several time zones away with limited seasonal availability is too much of a risk at this time.

BUT, as I've said many times, I may conclude differently if I was privy to all information backing the return

[Man of Kent]

42 minutes ago, TheReaper said:

I'm not sure what point you're making here? 

I read that whole article, some interesting information but a lot of it seems to be tainted by sour grapes from Glendale and Kanaloa so it's hard to know how to interpret the rest of it. 

It suggests what may be required for rugby league to get on a major network in North America, ie lots of give for little take.

[TheReaper]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

It suggests what may be required for rugby league to get on a major network in North America, ie lots of give for little take.

In the short term, absolutely. That can't be a surprise to anyone.

[Man of Kent]

Just now, TheReaper said:

In the short term, absolutely. That can't be a surprise to anyone.

Certainly not the production costs element. It all seems rather prohibitive to hopes of a TV deal over there.

[Quolls2020]

4 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Is he playing or reffing ? , Or both ?

Could be both, but I have only found info on him playing, I will check and advise.

[Quolls2020]

6 minutes ago, Quolls2020 said:

Could be both, but I have only found info on him playing, I will check and advise.

Former NRL star and Temora Dragons product, Josh McCrone is the latest big name signing to join the Group 9 competition after the Young Cherrypickers announced they had attained the playmakers services for the remainder of the 2020 competition. 

McCrone was most recently captain of the Toronto Wolfpack, but after the club withdrew from the English Super league, McCrone found himself heading back to Australia to link up with the Pickers. 
 

so he only refs when he is playing.

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, TIWIT said:

And I repeat, if LiVolsi is not given a chance, who's going to pay them? 

I can imagine that will be Livolsi's opening, continuing and closing statement, that being a psychological arm shoved up the back of the SL decision makers along the lines of "If you don't accept me, the players will be never recieve backpay".

You have intimated enough that is what is going to happen should he get rejected he may as well use it.

[Robin Evans]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I can imagine that will be Livolsi's opening, continuing and closing statement, that being a psychological arm shoved up the back of the SL decision makers along the lines of "If you don't accept me, the players will be never recieve backpay".

You have intimated enough that is what is going to happen should he get rejected he may as well use it.

If he did id show him the door. The game cannot be blackmailed.

People are being laid off all over the world. One hopes that SL could offer some kind of support payment if that indeed was/is Livolsi's approach.

[ATLANTISMAN]

If i was a betting man I would bet on TW being allowed back in next season with matches played in the UK until Canada opens up again and then back in Toronto in 2022.

Then a 14 team SL also in 2022

 

P 

 

 

[Blind side johnny]

On 20/10/2020 at 13:42, Kayakman said:

Think drag racing...you get to the finish line far quicker!

Don't they simply run out of gas very quickly? I suppose that is the analogy you re really reaching for.

[Steve Slater]

1 hour ago, Robin Evans said:

If he did id show him the door. The game cannot be blackmailed.

People are being laid off all over the world. One hopes that SL could offer some kind of support payment if that indeed was/is Livolsi's approach.

Whatever happened to the parachute payment? It was meant to pay for the proposed Championship & League 1 autumn competition which never got off the ground. If its still there it could be used to pay the Toronto players if they decide to tell Livolsi they won't be held to blackmail.

[Blind side johnny]

17 hours ago, Oldbear said:

This is why deferral to 2022 might be a smart move. Not so many players left and some of those have looked less than sparkling in SL, plus there’s no way Wilkin can be counted on for 2021, given his age and recent injuries. A major rebuilding exercise has to be on the cards, the good thing is McDermott (assuming he stays too), or his replacement will at least be able to choose his squad rather than having someone else’s. The downside is a proper rebuild cannot be rushed, and many prospective signings may need greater reassurance about the financials and off field organization (no more visa fiascos please) before they sign. Giving TWP an extra 12 months improves the chance of them being competitive in SL (let’s face it that’s what TV wants, a competitive league where most games get decided in the final quarter, not first half blow outs), plus it just allows more time for clarification regarding international travel.

Now if SL can’t wait till 2022 (and I think they can), then there’s a potential problem. If LiVolsi can’t wait till 2022 we need to know why and ask what his true motive is. I just don’t see anyway that TWP will be anything like ready for a 2021 start which is less than 6 months away.

Wilkin has stated quite clearly on TV that he has now retired.

HTH

[Whippet13]

1 hour ago, Robin Evans said:

If he did id show him the door. The game cannot be blackmailed.

People are being laid off all over the world. One hopes that SL could offer some kind of support payment if that indeed was/is Livolsi's approach.

It's not blackmail, he isn't the on who failed to pay them previously.

Problem with SL paying their wages is the precedent it sets, not many sporting organisations will go down that route.

[Blind side johnny]

4 hours ago, TIWIT said:

It is totally relevant. Looking after your money is part of growing up. 

I live on a fixed income but I still have money squirreled away that would keep me going for a few months.

Don't these players have agents/lawyers/advisors to help them?

It is completely irrelevant to the moral responsibility of TWP to pay the players, and all other creditors, what they are owed. You are simply deflecting the argument onto others.

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, Robin Evans said:

If he did id show him the door. The game cannot be blackmailed.

People are being laid off all over the world. One hopes that SL could offer some kind of support payment if that indeed was/is Livolsi's approach.

Actually it is implicit in his earlier statements when, quite fairly, he said that he would only take over TWP if their admission to SL was approved under acceptable terms. It isn't arm twisting, simply a progression of actions: if they aren't admitted then he cannot fairly be blamed nor expected to make good any of the debts that are nothing to do with him as he is no longer a shareholder.

[Oldbear]

9 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

There's an article about MLR on the Grauniad. This caught my eye:

'US rugby lovers had never had access to regular coverage. MLR now had real air time – also on ESPN+ and local networks – the value of which could not be under-estimated. Like any start-up, however, indeed any league outside pro sports’ top tier, it had been required to buy it.

“It was a contract with CBS,” Guthrie says, “that required that MLR pay for production costs, pay for distribution costs and give up very serious commercial sales and licensing rights.” In short, TV raised little revenue.

It was a problem – but one to be expected. In the words of Patrick Crakes, an experienced US sports TV executive: “Even if a tier-one sports broadcaster likes CBS really believes in MLR, they’ll still have to buy the time. They’re an emerging league. That’s just the way it is.”'

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/oct/21/major-league-rugby-us-glendale-raptors-withdrawal

 

This does not surprise me, and is one reason I am very sceptical about the US as a realistic RL expansion market, American broadcasters pay huge amounts to sports which are familiar, established and popular to US sports viewers, anything else is lucky to get airtime. It is a little different here in Canada, it is possible to get interest for Canadian based RL teams and I’m very confident that TWP could get a paying TV deal playing in SL providing they are competitive, they don’t have to win most weeks but they can’t afford to be flogged the way they were being before they shut down as Canadian viewers will quickly lose interest and then the TV deal will be gone (because I suspect the deal they will be offered will be 1 year with a potential further 2 years depending upon year 1’s viewing figures). I’m also concerned that the deal will be on Sportsnet World, which comes at an extra premium and is currently the home of SL, NRL and Bundesliga, however because of the extra charges, and the fact that there’s no major Canadian sport on that channel, means the take up is pretty low, which does little to showcase the sport to a wider audience. I don’t see a huge deal materializing, probably just enough to allow TWP to cover costs, so nothing for anyone else, which brings me to a point I made earlier, what does the RFL/SL realistic want from having TWP back in the fold and if that answer is a pot of gold then forget it, if on the other hand it’s about developing the game over here then there had better be a strategy which involves Canada Rugby League (those guys that Argyle seemed to ignore), TWP and the RFL, not just “let’s just play and hope for the best”.

Oh in if you hadn’t already guessed I’m a firm no to New York, even if it wasn’t run by Wilby, because I just don’t ever see how RL is ever going to breakthrough at a pro level in the US, unless you allow them to basically buy the league so Americans can guarantee winning, because when Americans can’t win, they dismiss the sport as irrelevant to them.

[Kayakman]

5 hours ago, PhilCarrington said:

you said No begging about a hundred pages back. Be consistent.

No matter how badly you beg Phil I won't give in...you've made your bed and now you must sleep in it.