The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Man of Kent]

Surprised by Gary Hetherington’s keenness.

If there are still big holes in Toronto’s submission on funding, and the whole thing is predicated on the batsh*t crazy Wolf Grooming thing, and there is no tangible broadcast value to them being in, and they want TV money, why vote for them?

[mrfranco]

8 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

If the vote goes the way of twp  then they're in and take up a sl place next term and I would suggest whilst it doesn't represent a no confidence vote in Elstone, his position will be precarious at very best.

The 2nd Big question is if twp are rejected, how will SL be made up next season.

It's just my opinion, but if TWP are rejected, I'd be pretty confident it will be an 11-team SL next year. The main reasons would be: 1. means an extra 1/12th of tv money for each club; 2. we've seen since the restart how in Covid times (and next season looks increasingly like it will be very much still in Covid times...) it's useful to have a team with a bye on standby for a quick fixture rejig.
 

11 teams also means they don't have to throw an underprepared Championship team in at the deep end (although TWP if in will do well to avoid that same description given the player drain on an already small squad), and it means another season where none of the 11 chairmen has to worry about relegation.

The only real problem I see with that is Magic weekend... and if there's still not much by way of crowds (big if!) then Magic may well not be happening next year anyway

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

If the vote goes the way of twp  then they're in and take up a sl place next term and I would suggest whilst it doesn't represent a no confidence vote in Elstone, his position will be precarious at very best.

The 2nd Big question is if twp are rejected, how will SL be made up next season.

Indeed, though this does set a worrying precedent as GH said in his comments to the BBC, that clubs can vote out another member by simple majority.

[The Future is League]

30 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Whenever I see RL people talking about strategic effect, I can’t help but laugh. The sport doesn’t have a clue what it means. 

In a nutshell. I'm finished with the game at all levels if TWP are rejected, and some others will be delighted with the demise with them, but i want the game to be ambitious and sadly it's not in this country, so below are my reasons

The lack of ambition shown by the game in the country.Sadly it doesn't have any sort of ambition.

The ever decreasing player base.

The ever decreasing crowd numbers prior to this season.

The ever decreasing sponsors of note coming into the game as it has little appeal nowadays to the public.

The marketing of the game is terrible. Match day marketing is non existent in many town and cities where the game is played

The game in this country is a rudderless ship.

[Man of Kent]

26 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

In a nutshell. I'm finished with the game at all levels if TWP are rejected, and some others will be delighted with the demise with them, but i want the game to be ambitious and sadly it's not in this country, so below are my reasons

The lack of ambition shown by the game in the country.Sadly it doesn't have any sort of ambition.

The ever decreasing player base.

The ever decreasing crowd numbers prior to this season.

The ever decreasing sponsors of note coming into the game as it has little appeal nowadays to the public.

The marketing of the game is terrible. Match day marketing is non existent in many town and cities where the game is played

The game in this country is a rudderless ship.

The above may or may not be true but a semi-Canadian club named Toronto being in Super League isn’t a magic wand that changes everything (anything?). 

[ATLANTISMAN]

Guys lets not get too emotional.

RL is a great game (Only Cricket does it for me at the same level) these are tough times and the game needs all the support it can get.

YES we need to expand 

YES we need a second team in France 

YES we need to make sure that that the smaller heartland clubs are helped

The SKY money is so important however its in reality lazy money (Some clubs can just sit back take the SKY money every year and not progress in other areas)

 

The only way we will ever have a vibrant competition is stick with a 10 year plan and have plenty of Internationals .

Next year (Although I personally think it will be put back to 2022) we are hosting a World Cup with a home team that never plays MADNESS:(

We need to create a second culture which can only be done with more internationals where people support the game and not just a club.

 

Paul

 

[Ooh Ah Timmy Street]

For me it is not particularly that the club involved is Toronto, it is the insular self-interest shown by some of the clubs, none of which should be deciding the future of the game . Until this changes , I also will no longer follow superleague . 

[briggyq]

If that BBC report is true then it’s game over that said non of the pro Wolfpack people have said how,when in all likelihood the spectre of COVID isn’t going anywhere anytime soon how they propose to play the games next season?

 

to me that alone should put a stop to any Wolfpack involvement for next season at the very least.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

15 minutes ago, briggyq said:

If that BBC report is true then it’s game over that said non of the pro Wolfpack people have said how,when in all likelihood the spectre of COVID isn’t going anywhere anytime soon how they propose to play the games next season?

 

to me that alone should put a stop to any Wolfpack involvement for next season at the very least.

They've reportedly proposed playing all their home games in the UK in 2021.

[ATLANTISMAN]

2 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

They've reportedly proposed playing all their home games in the UK in 2021.

Makes sense until a vaccine is found for Covid 19 really only one place I can see them playing

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

They've reportedly proposed playing all their home games in the UK in 2021.

So a team called Toronto , with no Canadian players , not playing in Canada 

Better still just reinstate them in 2022

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So a team called Toronto , with no Canadian players , not playing in Canada 

Better still just reinstate them in 2022

<conspiracy theory mode on> Play at Odsal, give it a few weeks/months and, hey presto, the return of Bradford to SL<conspiracy theory mode off> 

[TIWIT]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

So a team called Toronto , with no Canadian players , not playing in Canada 

Better still just reinstate them in 2022

I could see that. Makes sense even. Except that only half the teams at all levels can survive that long.

And on on a purely selfish level I'll be dead by then. Heck I'll be lucky to make to 2021

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

I could see that. Makes sense even. Except that only half the teams at all levels can survive that long.

And on on a purely selfish level I'll be dead by then. Heck I'll be lucky to make to 2021

To me , the primary positive of Toronto is them playing in Toronto in front of a sizeable crowd , if that isn't possible , not much point in them playing at all 

[RobertAM]

Coming soon to a stadium near you..."Honey, I shrunk the game!"  Smaller global footprint, lower sponsorship, smaller crowds, this is the Robert Elstone story. Free pizza for the first 50 patrons.

[Oldbear]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

So a team called Toronto , with no Canadian players , not playing in Canada 

Better still just reinstate them in 2022

At the moment you could say no players full stop, given the number of departures, and the relatively short amount of time they would have to get a squad together. Even if they did manage to cobble together a squad, they would be pretty much guaranteed to finish bottom so they would be far better advised to wait to 2022.

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

To me , the primary positive of Toronto is them playing in Toronto in front of a sizeable crowd , if that isn't possible , not much point in them playing at all 

Very true, enthusiasm for the team comes from playing in Canada and given the current situation with Covid, that doesn’t look likely any time soon, once again waiting to 2022 looks like a no brainer to me.

[Oldbear]

3 hours ago, The Future is League said:

The ever decreasing sponsors of note coming into the game as it has little appeal nowadays to the public.

The marketing of the game is terrible. Match day marketing is non existent in many town and cities where the game is played

The game in this country is a rudderless ship.

Just picking up on these last couple of points. I find it worrying that SL’s premier club, on field at least, has a chain of pawnbrokers as its main sponsor. In fact I would guess that only Warrington, and surprisingly Wakefield, have main shirt sponsors that would have name recognition in many households. Why is that?

I don’t know about match day marketing over there given my location, but I do know that even the highest profile sports over here, the ones who don’t need to sell tickets in normal times because demand has always outstripped supply, still spend heavily on marketing and that’s because they don’t take anything for granted.

The game is in desperate need of a strong leader, however I suspect that won’t happen because it will go against some of the big clubs self interests, plus strong leaders cost money, something RL is chronically short of.

[Oldbear]

1 hour ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

<conspiracy theory mode on> Play at Odsal, give it a few weeks/months and, hey presto, the return of Bradford to SL<conspiracy theory mode off> 

You could even bring back the “Run with the Bulls” song back, substitute Bulls for Pack and job done!

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

At the moment you could say no players full stop, given the number of departures, and the relatively short amount of time they would have to get a squad together. Even if they did manage to cobble together a squad, they would be pretty much guaranteed to finish bottom so they would be far better advised to wait to 2022.

Very true, enthusiasm for the team comes from playing in Canada and given the current situation with Covid, that doesn’t look likely any time soon, once again waiting to 2022 looks like a no brainer to me.

I'm not so sure. 

At the moment none of us fans are interacting with our teams, the games we watch on TV could be being played anywhere right now. 

If next season looks like this, I don't see an issue with TWP having to also play away from home for some or all of the year. A gap year on top of this year isn't going to be great for keeping fans engaged. They may be a TV team, but they all are right now. 

[briggyq]

2 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

They've reportedly proposed playing all their home games in the UK in 2021.

Then really there is little point in them being reinstated surely?

 

I suspect if that where the case we would have the sequel to this thread this time next year because the money would have run out again.

[Oldbear]

2 minutes ago, briggyq said:

Then really there is little point in them being reinstated surely?

 

I suspect if that where the case we would have the sequel to this thread this time next year because the money would have run out again.

Even if the money doesn’t run out, if the owners patience runs out he will turn off the tap. I just don’t know why a Canadian owner would be happy to fund a team long term if it’s unclear when they may be able to actually play in Canada. Once again I feel that waiting till 2022 might be a better idea, more time to get a squad together, more time to assess the Covid situation plus more time to talk to media about possible TV deals. The start of the 2021 season is how many months away?

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Even if the money doesn’t run out, if the owners patience runs out he will turn off the tap. I just don’t know why a Canadian owner would be happy to fund a team long term if it’s unclear when they may be able to actually play in Canada. Once again I feel that waiting till 2022 might be a better idea, more time to get a squad together, more time to assess the Covid situation plus more time to talk to media about possible TV deals. The start of the 2021 season is how many months away?

Correct 

[Oldbear]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not so sure. 

At the moment none of us fans are interacting with our teams, the games we watch on TV could be being played anywhere right now. 

If next season looks like this, I don't see an issue with TWP having to also play away from home for some or all of the year. A gap year on top of this year isn't going to be great for keeping fans engaged. They may be a TV team, but they all are right now. 

Yes but at least your TV teams are in the same time zone, and the owners can actually watch their playthings live. I’m just not sure what the attraction is for LiVolsi, or indeed any other Canadian owner in funding a team that won’t be playing in his home country till who knows when, plus he can’t watch them live either, given the international travel restrictions, which once again could go on for some time to come.

I know a gap year isn’t great, but it’s better than fumbling into next season semi prepared, if TWP are allowed back in, things have to be done right this time.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Yes but at least your TV teams are in the same time zone, and the owners can actually watch their playthings live. I’m just not sure what the attraction is for LiVolsi, or indeed any other Canadian owner in funding a team that won’t be playing in his home country till who knows when, plus he can’t watch them live either, given the international travel restrictions, which once again could go on for some time to come.

I know a gap year isn’t great, but it’s better than fumbling into next season semi prepared, if TWP are allowed back in, things have to be done right this time.

The time zones issue is pretty manageable though really. 

I suppose the benefit is not starting all over again in 2022 after almost 2 years without being a 'thing'. 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Yes but at least your TV teams are in the same time zone, and the owners can actually watch their playthings live. I’m just not sure what the attraction is for LiVolsi, or indeed any other Canadian owner in funding a team that won’t be playing in his home country till who knows when, plus he can’t watch them live either, given the international travel restrictions, which once again could go on for some time to come.

I know a gap year isn’t great, but it’s better than fumbling into next season semi prepared, if TWP are allowed back in, things have to be done right this time.

Do it right or don't bother