The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[theswanmcr]

Ok so let’s play along and take this at supposedly face value... Toronto was “non-strategic and added no material incremental revenue to Super League in the short or medium term”.

So there is a strategy then? And presumably this new 12th club will bring added material revenue? Well why doesn’t Mr Elstone enlighten us all on this? Oh, of course he can’t because it’s just a crock of **** words with no basis in reality.

[Hela Wigmen]

6 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

You say that but

1. this is RL, when do we ever have a strategic plan?

2. we the fans don’t want 10, Sky I suspect doesn’t give a ###### as long as it gets a competitive league, which leaves us with the decision makers, wait a minute they are the existing clubs, who are more concerned with income, especially if there’s no or little season ticket revenue next year. Sacrifice one to save 10 maybe?

I’m not disputing that but you can hope for change, can’t you? 

Clubs won’t want ten either and won’t back that. 

[Oldbear]

3 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Ok so let’s play along and take this at supposedly face value... Toronto was “non-strategic and added no material incremental revenue to Super League in the short or medium term”.

So there is a strategy then? And presumably this new 12th club will bring added material revenue? Well why doesn’t Mr Elstone enlighten us all on this? Oh, of course he can’t because it’s just a crock of **** words with no basis in reality.

It’s just politician speak.

[Oldbear]

Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

I’m not disputing that but you can hope for change, can’t you? 

Clubs won’t want ten either and won’t back that. 

I hope for change too, but it never seems to happen.

Clubs are only interested in firstly surviving, then secondly being the big fish in their pond, if 10 suits say 6-7 of them it will happen.

[Oldbear]

As much as I’m no fan of either Leeds or Saints I think Hetherington and McManus are possibly the only UK SL execs with a vision beyond their own club, they might not want a 10 team contracted comp, but are likely to get outvoted.

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, Oldbear said:

I hope for change too, but it never seems to happen.

Clubs are only interested in firstly surviving, then secondly being the big fish in their pond, if 10 suits say 6-7 of them it will happen.

As I say, we can hope. 

I don’t agree with that. Three of the biggest clubs in the competition had voted Toronto - Yes, for example. I think there is a genuine passion for growth amongst five or six, as proven by them pushing for Elstone to come in and run the show. It’s another handful of clubs that are deemed the “problem” clubs. I get their view and I’d probably share it if I was them. 

[theswanmcr]

4 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

It’s just politician speak.

Oh I know. But there’s no need for it... SL has the finances/lack of reassurances about the funding as the reason (rightly or wrongly). This nonsense about strategy just makes them and the sport look even more foolish than it already is.

[LeytherRob]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

My only hope from all this is that Perez may get involved and somehow Toronto, Ottawa and New York can develop something in North America. Yes I know there are doubts about New York but even if they can rope in a few more cities and build something it would be cheaper than the whole League 1, Championship route. I make no bones about being disappointed to lose Toronto but this would always be more preferable to me in the long run if it was even semi-pro type level.

After this decision I don't see much point in more North American teams joining our system if there is no plan. If Ottawa join under the same terms then the same issues will be seen. The only way I can see this now working is if a few teams i.e 4 joined  at the same time with a TV deal in some sort of conference. If they ever got to a position though where that was feasible or possible then it surely would be more lucrative for them to just develop a full blown American league.

It should've been the plan from the start, there's a reason RU are looking to things like Major League Rugby rather than parachuting teams in. Even Super Rugby is having to consolidate next year and has cut the team from Japan.

There just isn't a way to run a transatlantic sports team at break even, let alone profiting on the budgets that Rugby of either code can afford, especially in a society that will be feeling the effects from Covid for years to come.

Frustratingly, Canadian RL was doing some great work under Perez prior him leaving to join Toronto and it's gone backwards ever since, the website has barely been updated in years now barring the odd story about TWP.

 

[Oldbear]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

As I say, we can hope. 

I don’t agree with that. Three of the biggest clubs in the competition had voted Toronto - Yes, for example. I think there is a genuine passion for growth amongst five or six, as proven by them pushing for Elstone to come in and run the show. It’s another handful of clubs that are deemed the “problem” clubs. I get their view and I’d probably share it if I was them. 

Ultimately if it comes to a vote to reduce the size of the league, then Wigan and Warrington will probably hold the cards, as you say Leeds, Saints and Cats are more ambitious, the rest more conservative, even if they recognize that it’s going to be one of them that is sacrificed.

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, Oldbear said:

Ultimately if it comes to a vote to reduce the size of the league, then Wigan and Warrington will probably hold the cards, as you say Leeds, Saints and Cats are more ambitious, the rest more conservative, even if they recognize that it’s going to be one of them that is sacrificed.

Wigan and Warrington were quite big players in the move to get Elstone too. The biggest club against the Elstone appointment was Leeds. Everyone else were as you say, less ambitious. 

[Oldbear]

6 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

There just isn't a way to run a transatlantic sports team at break even, let alone profiting on the budgets that Rugby of either code can afford, especially in a society that will be feeling the effects from Covid for years to come.

Frustratingly, Canadian RL was doing some great work under Perez prior him leaving to join Toronto and it's gone backwards ever since, the website has barely been updated in years now barring the odd story about TWP.

 

It might have worked with big sponsorship and a big TV deal, sadly Covid will lead to sponsorships and TV contracts being trimmed for some time to come, there just isn’t going to be that kind of money anywhere. Regardless of that it wouldn’t have been the best way to spend money.

I echo your thoughts about Canada RL, it seems now to be on the edge of extinction and has not looked good since Perez left the scene.

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Just need Mr Beaumont's offer to be accepted and I reckon I'd hear his head explode from here......

Nah I'd love to see Leigh come in and send a tinpot club down

[Big Picture]

3 hours ago, frank said:

Well one thing has been proven today and that is there is nothing super about SL.

We had a wonderful opportunity to establish the game in Canada and that is most  probably lost.

Hope Sky cut SL funding to the bone, it has  very little to offer.

There's never been anything super about SL, it's never been anything more than a tarted up version of the old regional RFL Championship pretending to be a Super League and today's vote is more confirmation of that.

[Davo5]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Am I mistaken or was it a vote by the self same clubs that allowed them into SL?

I thought they earned that right on the field of play like you keep banging on about.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

There's never been anything super about SL, it's never been anything more than a tarted up version of the old regional RFL Championship pretending to be a Super League and today's vote is more confirmation of that.

We didn't need Toronto to prove that 

But the bottom line is you can't put teams in places where nobody cares 

What you've always called for could only operate as a TV only comp 

So tell me which broadcaster is going to stump up the money for it ?

[JohnM]

Had Toronto's  Wakefield Wigan, Warrington, Widnes, Saints, London, Leigh, Featherstone,  castleford Leeds, etc the entire RFL's submission been on Dragons Den, then undoubtedly each and every Dragon would have said "I'm out"

[Davo5]

On the plus side that’s another 1.9 million to help fund all those development officers that the clubs employed with Toronto’s Sky money this year !!!

[yipyee]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

We didn't need Toronto to prove that 

But the bottom line is you can't put teams in places where nobody cares 

What you've always called for could only operate as a TV only comp 

So tell me which broadcaster is going to stump up the money for it ?

10k watching in south of France

9k watching Second division in Toronto

How many went a low level game in bristol at the last home world cup?

 

[silverback]

3 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

I thought they earned that right on the field of play like you keep banging on about.

They could/might have done, and could still be part of it all if towel wernt thrown in, am sure if argyl had a left the club in a better position it might have been  a better chance for someone to takover without all the checks.other clubs have managed to get along and with the 10,000 crowds TWP have had.

[silverback]

1 minute ago, yipyee said:

10k watching in south of France

9k watching Second division in Toronto

How many went a low level game in bristol at the last home world cup?

 

How many got bring 3 mates for nowt tickets,or have a couple a beer tokens on the TWP.stick a dozen craft beer tents in any stadium(inc odsal) and get some flyers out and it will boost the gates,leave them open come game day and its one big massive crowd/ beer festival. worked well for TWP.

[Big Picture]

7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

We didn't need Toronto to prove that 

But the bottom line is you can't put teams in places where nobody cares 

What you've always called for could only operate as a TV only comp 

So tell me which broadcaster is going to stump up the money for it ?

Toronto isn't a place where nobody cares, the Wolfpack created an audience for themselves just like the Blue Jays, Raptors and Toronto FC before them.

Not TV only but definitely TV-friendly.

No single broadcaster would ever stump up the money by themselves, but with the right broadcast strategy one might line up several broadcast partners who'd stump it up between them.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, yipyee said:

10k watching in south of France

9k watching Second division in Toronto

How many went a low level game in bristol at the last home world cup?

 

Funnily enough the Bristol game was heavily marketed by Joe , a Leyther living in Exeter , but that was a one off International 

But you've quoted 2 teams abroad , where are you basing the ones replacing Salford,Saints,Warrington, Wigan ,CAS,Hull,HKR,Wakey,Huddersfield ?

[yipyee]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Funnily enough the Bristol game was heavily marketed by Joe , a Leyther living in Exeter , but that was a one off International 

But you've quoted 2 teams abroad , where are you basing the ones replacing Salford,Saints,Warrington, Wigan ,CAS,Hull,HKR,Wakey,Huddersfield ?

So people away from the heartlands do care then and will watch?

Maybe you should take a leaf out of Joes book and support growth and just see what can be acheived!!!!!!!!!!!

Toronto should be in and have a level playing field but that was never going to happen and RL prove to be a small time charlie sport yet again

[briggyq]

1 hour ago, Oldbear said:

As much as I’m no fan of either Leeds or Saints I think Hetherington and McManus are possibly the only UK SL execs with a vision beyond their own club, they might not want a 10 team contracted comp, but are likely to get outvoted.

The cynic in me says Hetherington only sided with the Wolfpack because of his dislike for Elstone.

 

But im in a cynical mood tonight

[yipyee]

15 minutes ago, silverback said:

How many got bring 3 mates for nowt tickets,or have a couple a beer tokens on the TWP.stick a dozen craft beer tents in any stadium(inc odsal) and get some flyers out and it will boost the gates,leave them open come game day and its one big massive crowd/ beer festival. worked well for TWP.

All clubs have offers to boost crowds, pretty sure Championship clubs had free to attend games.

Top SL clubs also give free tickets away.

 

Its amusing you see beer tents etc as a negative, if it boosts crowds why dont the failing clubs with low attendances try this or other inventive ideas to boost crowd numbers???