The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Omott91]

Absolutely gutted about this decision.

 Elstone should fall for this. He had a preconceived idea from the start and his comments today was pure bs.

 Will every club and indeed current super league clubs be held to the same standard? What does a team in Castleford add? 

[Robin Evans]

17 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

Absolutely gutted about this decision.

 Elstone should fall for this. He had a preconceived idea from the start and his comments today was pure bs.

 Will every club and indeed current super league clubs be held to the same standard? What does a team in Castleford add? 

If you're going to hold all SL clubs to minimum standards, you will have a SL of 5-6 clubs and licencing is/was a worthless process IF you are strictly applying those standards to all clubs.

Being in Toronto, subject to massive differences in geography, weather, accessibility etc, course they will be treated differently. They have to be. Their case is an extraordinary one.

[Adelaide Tiger]

4 hours ago, SL17 said:

I think Ottawa are a different breed of club. They can ride COVID-19 currently given they are building. I most certainly wouldn’t write them off. TWP could get on the same level and go again. That would mean investment and Derby matches.

From the outside looking in Ottawa appear to be built differently but the main issue is that SL have no guidance or plan that they can hand to Ottawa that clearly details what is expected of Ottawa should they gain promotion to SL.

So in a few years time we will all be on a similar thread talking about whether Ottawa should be accepted into SL.  What a crock of @#&$&@# it is.

[Adelaide Tiger]

2 hours ago, rlno1 said:

If he was a conman, why did St.Helens and Leeds vote for them. The are two of the most professional clubs in the league.

That’s what a I can’t figure out either.

Why did 3 of SL’s best run clubs vote for them?  I can understand why those clubs finding it tough financially would vote against TWP and take their additional 1/12 th of the pot but what did Saints, Leeds and Catalans and the RFL see that others either didn’t or refused to see.  Or was it that the other 8 clubs plus SL saw something clearly wrong but the RFL, Saints, Leeds or Catalans didn’t.

It’s a shame that the truth will probably never come out.

[Hela Wigmen]

https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/toronto-wolfpack-super-league-castleford-wigan-hull-kr-hull-fc-huddersfield-salford-wakefield-746015

A bit more understanding behind why the vote went the way it did. 

[burnleywelsh]

4 hours ago, SL17 said:

 Branson was involved with the NRL. Hence Fulham are the London Broncos. 

What capacity was Branson involved in the NRL?

Fulham became London Crusaders then Broncos when Brisbane got involved. Three years before Virgin took over.

[Damien]

4 hours ago, SL17 said:

 Branson was involved with the NRL. Hence Fulham are the London Broncos. He made money but couldn’t go the full path. Perez wanted the same thing using Argyles money. 
Argyle shifted to selling products and Perez said bye bye.

A consortium member then decided he’ll have a pop at it. Lost before he even started.

London Broncos came about because of Barry Maranta and Brisbane Broncos taking over the London Crusaders. Branson came on board later, firstly with a part stake then taking over from Maranta and Brisbane completely.

[Damien]

4 hours ago, nadera78 said:

RL in England's only hope for the future is to get as many players as possible playing in the NRL and hope the England team gets some success off the back of it. That won't help the clubs grow but it will keep them alive.

That's not much of a plan when the England team rarely plays.

[Hela Wigmen]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MinardsTrinity/status/1323535257816174592

This’ll go down well. 

[Wildcat]

6 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MinardsTrinity/status/1323535257816174592

This’ll go down well. 

People will read exactly what they want to read. Fair play to him for being open.

[ATLANTISMAN]

5 hours ago, SL17 said:

 Branson was involved with the NRL. Hence Fulham are the London Broncos. He made money but couldn’t go the full path. Perez wanted the same thing using Argyles money. 
Argyle shifted to selling products and Perez said bye bye.

A consortium member then decided he’ll have a pop at it. Lost before he even started.

Completely wrong there the BRISBANE BRONCOS director Barry Marranta  took over the London Crusaders and with BB permission re-branded the club.

Branson bought in a % after his son started to watch a few games and then offered to increase his shareholding to 49% on the day of the meeting his representative held a gun to Marrantas head asking for 90% + of the shares for the previously agreed amount the club had bills to pay and poor Barry Marranta was left having to throw the towel in.

Although Branson pumped in monies via the shirt sponsorship his tenure at the LB was nothing short of a disaster with various clueless Virgim employees being brought in to run a Rugby League Club.

In the end tricky dickie gave the club a 1 year notice of getting out (Via the shirt sponsorship) and the club was sold onto to Ian Lenegan and David Hughes (Who I think was maybe already a director) who between them had to sort out the debts and mess that Virgin left behind.

Sadly the draw of Wigan (His hometown club) led Ian to eventually move on leaving David Hughes and the rest is history (David should be in the honours list for services to rugby league what a great benefactor he has been to rugby league)

BTW for those that dont know David childhood team I believe was Swinton.

 

Paul

 

 

 

[Whippet13]

23 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

That’s what a I can’t figure out either.

Why did 3 of SL’s best run clubs vote for them?  I can understand why those clubs finding it tough financially would vote against TWP and take their additional 1/12 th of the pot but what did Saints, Leeds and Catalans and the RFL see that others either didn’t or refused to see.  Or was it that the other 8 clubs plus SL saw something clearly wrong but the RFL, Saints, Leeds or Catalans didn’t.

It’s a shame that the truth will probably never come out.

Catalans may have voted for them on the possibility that, as SL commercial revenue continues to shrink, they might be next in the firing line. Ask the same questions that were asked of TWP:

What commercial and short/medium term strategic value do Catalans bring to SL?

No Sky subscriptions, no away fans, no French TV contract, extra travel cost/disruption, reduced finals crowds, £2m pa central funding lost to the British game etc.

I wouldn't be at all suprised to see Catalans get stabbed in the back in a year's time if SL chooses a 10 team comp for 2022.

[Just Browny]

21 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MinardsTrinity/status/1323535257816174592

This’ll go down well. 

Fairly remarkable that Wakefield now care about club creditors getting what they are owed. A real change.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Robin Evans said:

If you're going to hold all SL clubs to minimum standards, you will have a SL of 5-6 clubs and licencing is/was a worthless process IF you are strictly applying those standards to all clubs.

Being in Toronto, subject to massive differences in geography, weather, accessibility etc, course they will be treated differently. They have to be. Their case is an extraordinary one.

Without doubt there are 6 clubs that would tick all the boxes by any measure. There are probably a couple more lacking in some areas but not others. However who says licensing and minimum standards only has to apply to existing SL clubs? There was talk about Newcastle looking at taking over Toronto. There is Toulouse in the Championship. Heck there is even Toronto itself if a SL was being done properly with equal funding and say. If SL was actually serious about implementing a proper SL competition with licensing and clubs buying their way in to show they have the funds we don't know what investors may be interested. 

[del capo]

Is it time for the RFL to ditch it's ties with SL and go it's own way ?

Just asking.....

 

[iffleyox]

57 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

That’s what a I can’t figure out either.

Why did 3 of SL’s best run clubs vote for them?  I can understand why those clubs finding it tough financially would vote against TWP and take their additional 1/12 th of the pot but what did Saints, Leeds and Catalans and the RFL see that others either didn’t or refused to see.  Or was it that the other 8 clubs plus SL saw something clearly wrong but the RFL, Saints, Leeds or Catalans didn’t.

It’s a shame that the truth will probably never come out.

I think we can knock that question down to 2 clubs actually.

Everyone in the room would have had a fairly good idea of what was going to happen, so on that basis:

Catalans nailed on to vote for Toronto because it's the club closest to them in situation and they need to keep the flame alive.

RFL know it's going to be defeated so 'doing the right thing' costs nothing and they get to look like the good guys  -vote for it.

Saints and Leeds? I reckon somewhere between Catalans and RFL - but of the four votes in favour those are the two where I think it's not obvious.

[Robin Evans]

Again, I'm not a marketing gadgy.... I don't know the first thing about procurement of sponsorship.  But recent history tells us all sports, even the successful ones are facing a downturn in sponsorship.

There has never been a huge queue to sponsor our sport.

Pizza and Eddie Stobbart.....hardly shattering. I have no info that under the current climate that this can/will be reversed

[Moove]

1 hour ago, Robin Evans said:

Being in Toronto, subject to massive differences in geography, weather, accessibility etc, course they will be treated differently. They have to be. Their case is an extraordinary one.

While I agree with your general point, it's a little ironic that a big part of Wakefield's reasoning is because they didn't want to treat them as an extraordinary case in regards to insolvency rules and points deductions (although if memory serves I'm not sure they've been applied consistently in the past anyway but could be wrong).

Of course nothing to do with the fact that a large points deduction would effectively guarantee Wakefield's SL status for 2022. Obviously I'm not cynical enough to suggest that...

[Robin Evans]

1 minute ago, Moove said:

While I agree with your general point, it's a little ironic that a big part of Wakefield's reasoning is because they didn't want to treat them as an extraordinary case in regards to insolvency rules and points deductions (although if memory serves I'm not sure they've been applied consistently in the past anyway but could be wrong).

Of course nothing to do with the fact that a large points deduction would effectively guarantee Wakefield's SL status for 2022. Obviously I'm not cynical enough to suggest that...

Obviously!

[Wildcat]

So it seems it's all down to Trinity … no other clubs involved.

Beat them hard with that stick! 

[dkw]

2 hours ago, Just Browny said:

My overall feelings were of sadness yesterday when I saw the headline, but now I have actually read the disingenuous quotes from Elstone I feel quite angry. I can't wait to see the reports on the strategic value and incremental revenue gains added by future and incumbent English teams.

Very disappointed in my own club which I thought was one of the few forward-thinking ones.

If those quotes are right then we need Elstone out of his position as soon as possible. I hope we now see him ask all the clubs to follow this:

Quote

“Toronto Wolfpack has been given every opportunity to provide the security our clubs need."

Self interest rules as usual in SL and its just being accommodated by Elstone and his ilk.

[Hela Wigmen]

Oh, now we get Uncle Gary’s power grab attempt Mk II. Yorkshire tinpot clubs assemble!

[ATLANTISMAN]

34 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Again, I'm not a marketing gadgy.... I don't know the first thing about procurement of sponsorship.  But recent history tells us all sports, even the successful ones are facing a downturn in sponsorship.

There has never been a huge queue to sponsor our sport.

Pizza and Eddie Stobbart.....hardly shattering. I have no info that under the current climate that this can/will be reversed

I can tell you right now sponsorship is booming in certain areas my wifes sports sponsorship company and radio station had a record month in October and already November has started with a bang.

TV viewing for sports is well up radio listening is up.

The economy is adjusting 20% is dead 80% will come out of this and there are plenty of tech/fintech companies with money to spend.

 

P 

[The Future is League]

15 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

make a decision with the emphasis on financal  proof been having to be laid on the table within 2 weeks of re instatement- if not then after that period the place is withdrawn

The precedent has now been set by Elstone with the emphasis on financial proof. Obviously Salford, Castleford and Wakefield are going to struggle with that.

[fcl]

Congratulations to the clubs for having asked this time for real guarantees and for not having only listened to a communication plan. It should have been done with the previous team but everyone was content with the infomercials.

Well done to John Davidson and all those who brought in a healthy contradiction.