The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Davo5]

19 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Wonder if the Go Fund Me will be used to pay back the Saints fans who are still out of pocket from the Saracens debacle. 

Why have you never heard of travel insurance 

[Davo5]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

Does it really matter?

Only to the sad and pedantic.

[Hela Wigmen]

2 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Why have you never heard of travel insurance 

To London? 

 

[Davo5]

4 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

To London? 

 

Erm yeah

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, Davo5 said:

Erm yeah

Not sure travel insurance covers match tickets and hospitality pal. 

[Davo5]

4 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Not sure travel insurance covers match tickets and hospitality pal. 

A good one would,if you payed by credit card you could also claim it back through them.

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, Davo5 said:

A good one would,if you payed by credit card you could also claim it back through them.

Out of interest, do you take up travel insurance when you go and watch a Rugby League game?

Toronto tried fobbing people off with “exchanges” for the game that ended up being at Warrington, of which were a lower value than what they’d paid originally. 

[Davo5]

6 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Out of interest, do you take up travel insurance when you go and watch a Rugby League game?

Toronto tried fobbing people off with “exchanges” for the game that ended up being at Warrington, of which were a lower value than what they’d paid originally. 

Annual one covers everything and so does paying with a credit card.

[Dave T]

19 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Annual one covers everything and so does paying with a credit card.

Credit cards wouldn't cover things like match tickets based on value in many cases. 

Did they ever actually sell tickets? 

[PhilCarrington]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Does it really matter?

No just curious. is that a big problem for you ? 

[snoopdog]

51 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Credit cards wouldn't cover things like match tickets based on value in many cases. 

Did they ever actually sell tickets? 

They did and I've bought them along with thousands of other fans, but you obviously haven't and prefer to listen to gossip and hearsay from people who have never been anywhere near a Toronto game.

[Dave T]

45 minutes ago, snoopdog said:

They did and I've bought them along with thousands of other fans, but you obviously haven't and prefer to listen to gossip and hearsay from people who have never been anywhere near a Toronto game.

 

The adults are discussing the game that was meant to be staged at Saracens. Are you saying thousands of people bought tickets for that game? 

Or did you pile in and embarrass yourself? 

[snoopdog]

34 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

The adults are discussing the game that was meant to be staged at Saracens. Are you saying thousands of people bought tickets for that game? 

Or did you pile in and embarrass yourself? 

No they were all free and plenty of cardboard cutouts.

[Dave T]

13 minutes ago, snoopdog said:

No they were all free and plenty of cardboard cutouts.

Well no, it was a broken promise and a game was never played at Saracens to be more accurate. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

The TW cancelled the match at Saracens after the new CEO there upped the stadium hire fee to £ 80000.00 (This happened apparently out of the blue and was way above the original figure agreed)

London Broncos offered to help out with a double header they were playing Featherstone Rovers that day (Last home match before lockdown) however in the meantime Warrington Wolves stepped in to help with a deal that was I am told too good to turn down.

 

[RP London]

16 hours ago, Dave T said:

Credit cards wouldn't cover things like match tickets based on value in many cases. 

Did they ever actually sell tickets? 

Think it depends on the card. we've been claiming back loads of different things that have been cancelled on ours. Some of them becuase the companies have only been offering transfers and that hasnt worked for us but the credit card companies have been able to get our money back... always worth a phone call

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, RP London said:

Think it depends on the card. we've been claiming back loads of different things that have been cancelled on ours. Some of them becuase the companies have only been offering transfers and that hasnt worked for us but the credit card companies have been able to get our money back... always worth a phone call

Ultimately the regulation is for purchases over £100 - but as you say it is always worth calling as banks do have some other methods to be able to refund, but there is no obligation on anything under a hundred quid.

[Damien]

This is a great article with a lot of very good points raised by McDermott, Wilkin and Vickers and a lot of things I didnt realise.

A couple of great points by WIlkin:

“What you tend to do in business or life is to commission a report to find the evidence that suits the view you have. From my experience of this, the game became obsessed with proving a point that Toronto wasn’t viable, and your ego gets wrapped around that view. If Robert Elstone and the game have decided that Toronto isn’t viable, and have commissioned a report to find out whether it is, the framing of that whole report will be based around that. My question to the game is were they trying to find these green shoots, or were they simply looking to quash the expansion into North America?

“We’re constantly looking to our weakest-performing members to make decisions on the game. What other organisation would do that? This democratic vote in Super League should be weighted on your investment into the game. Eamonn McManus’ vote should be weighted more than someone who hasn’t put any money into the game. As a professional player, go and get changed at Castleford and see how special you feel, or Wakefield. The fact those facilities still exist in that form is an indictment on the game itself. The guys at the top are getting their legs blown off by the teams at the bottom. If you had money, why would you invest in rugby league? You’re not welcomed, you’re restricted by a salary cap and there’s no ambition to move anything forward. How are we going to attract money into our sport other than the wallets of our supporters?”

And Vickers:

“It doesn’t feel like we’ve had our hand held throughout this process. Back in April, Robert and his team took some cuts and each club was given £25,000 – apart from our club. We raised it with Robert at the time and he asked us to make a report to the league. He didn’t choose to write it on this occasion, he asked us to write it, and we were unsuccessful. Three-quarters of the clubs said no to that, only three clubs offered to. That set the tone for how this developed."

“I was approached by Catalans in May to consider a New Zealand Warriors-style solidarity payment, and even though we asked him to approach the Warriors, he didn’t – so we did. They told us about the money that had been given to them and how they had been supported, so we prepared a report to go to the next board meeting with it, but Robert rang two days before and said we had no chance of winning that vote, so we took it off the table. I don’t feel like we’ve had strong leadership and we’ve been supported because if we had been, those reports would have been positively written in my view. In terms of dialogue around the propositions, we’ve only ever had business meetings about the process of the resubmission.

“Was this ever about Toronto? Or was it about this battle for territory between Super League and the RFL. We were seen to be the RFL’s big idea, and if you’ve lots of scars over the last few years, you didn’t feel we were the teacher’s pet of the RFL, but there was a perception out there and the fact we got turned down for a £25,000 payment at a time of unprecedented financial challenge to the sport, we’re told that’s what was agreed with Nigel Wood all those years ago. He hasn’t had any involvement in this at all, other than a perceived support of our club. Those are only my thoughts about that.”

https://thirteenrugby.com/2020/11/16/torontos-employees-speak-out-on-super-league-their-futures-and-the-decision-to-reject-the-clubs-readmission-to-the-game-in-2021/

[Damien]

Bateman seems to agree with Wilkin too:

 

 

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, Damien said:

This is a great article with a lot of very good points raised by McDermott, Wilkin and Vickers and a lot of things I didnt realise.

A couple of great points by WIlkin:

“What you tend to do in business or life is to commission a report to find the evidence that suits the view you have. From my experience of this, the game became obsessed with proving a point that Toronto wasn’t viable, and your ego gets wrapped around that view. If Robert Elstone and the game have decided that Toronto isn’t viable, and have commissioned a report to find out whether it is, the framing of that whole report will be based around that. My question to the game is were they trying to find these green shoots, or were they simply looking to quash the expansion into North America?

“We’re constantly looking to our weakest-performing members to make decisions on the game. What other organisation would do that? This democratic vote in Super League should be weighted on your investment into the game. Eamonn McManus’ vote should be weighted more than someone who hasn’t put any money into the game. As a professional player, go and get changed at Castleford and see how special you feel, or Wakefield. The fact those facilities still exist in that form is an indictment on the game itself. The guys at the top are getting their legs blown off by the teams at the bottom. If you had money, why would you invest in rugby league? You’re not welcomed, you’re restricted by a salary cap and there’s no ambition to move anything forward. How are we going to attract money into our sport other than the wallets of our supporters?”

And Vickers:

“It doesn’t feel like we’ve had our hand held throughout this process. Back in April, Robert and his team took some cuts and each club was given £25,000 – apart from our club. We raised it with Robert at the time and he asked us to make a report to the league. He didn’t choose to write it on this occasion, he asked us to write it, and we were unsuccessful. Three-quarters of the clubs said no to that, only three clubs offered to. That set the tone for how this developed."

“I was approached by Catalans in May to consider a New Zealand Warriors-style solidarity payment, and even though we asked him to approach the Warriors, he didn’t – so we did. They told us about the money that had been given to them and how they had been supported, so we prepared a report to go to the next board meeting with it, but Robert rang two days before and said we had no chance of winning that vote, so we took it off the table. I don’t feel like we’ve had strong leadership and we’ve been supported because if we had been, those reports would have been positively written in my view. In terms of dialogue around the propositions, we’ve only ever had business meetings about the process of the resubmission.

“Was this ever about Toronto? Or was it about this battle for territory between Super League and the RFL. We were seen to be the RFL’s big idea, and if you’ve lots of scars over the last few years, you didn’t feel we were the teacher’s pet of the RFL, but there was a perception out there and the fact we got turned down for a £25,000 payment at a time of unprecedented financial challenge to the sport, we’re told that’s what was agreed with Nigel Wood all those years ago. He hasn’t had any involvement in this at all, other than a perceived support of our club. Those are only my thoughts about that.”

https://thirteenrugby.com/2020/11/16/torontos-employees-speak-out-on-super-league-their-futures-and-the-decision-to-reject-the-clubs-readmission-to-the-game-in-2021/

The "RL Family" right there... 

How different could things have been if the Super League chairman supported Toronto conceptuallly.

[Oldbear]

5 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

The "RL Family" right there... 

How different could things have been if the Super League chairman supported Toronto conceptuallly.

This sadly sums up pretty much every expansion attempt though, self interest always prevails.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

This sadly sums up pretty much every expansion attempt though, self interest always prevails.

True, though my comments were actually aimed at Elstone specifically, which is just sheer skepticism and dislike rather than self interest. If Elstone had liked Toronto conceptually, I think he'd have got over stuff. Because he didn't, every Toronto difficulty became a handy obstacle to build on for Elstone. Everything from fixture scheduling, finances over covid, Warriors style security funding, everything is now not a hurdle to help a member club over but a way to reinforce your own viewpoint.

[Oldbear]

4 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

True, though my comments were actually aimed at Elstone specifically, which is just sheer skepticism and dislike rather than self interest. If Elstone had liked Toronto conceptually, I think he'd have got over stuff. Because he didn't, every Toronto difficulty became a handy obstacle to build on for Elstone. Everything from fixture scheduling, finances over covid, Warriors style security funding, everything is now not a hurdle to help a member club over but a way to reinforce your own viewpoint.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m no fan of Elstone, but I sometimes wonder how much of what he has said is actually him, or him saying things to reflect the view of the clubs who after all appointed him. If the latter is the case then he becomes the convenient fall guy and the clubs generally carry on as before. On the other hand if those really were his opinions then I totally agree with your point.

[RobertAM]

1 hour ago, Oldbear said:

Don’t get me wrong, I’m no fan of Elstone, but I sometimes wonder how much of what he has said is actually him, or him saying things to reflect the view of the clubs who after all appointed him. If the latter is the case then he becomes the convenient fall guy and the clubs generally carry on as before. On the other hand if those really were his opinions then I totally agree with your point.

When he made his one fact finding trip (he didnt bother making the effort to come to the Ch GF 2019 like the Rhinos boss) he was effusive about the experience but soon changed his tune perhaps anticipating which way the wind was blowing but that is why I take issue with his leadership or rather lack of it. If he believed NA expansion had a future a proper leader should convince wafflers of the potential not simply go along with the crowd. 

[Big Picture]

22 minutes ago, RobertAM said:

When he made his one fact finding trip (he didnt bother making the effort to come to the Ch GF 2019 like the Rhinos boss) he was effusive about the experience but soon changed his tune perhaps anticipating which way the wind was blowing but that is why I take issue with his leadership or rather lack of it. If he believed NA expansion had a future a proper leader should convince wafflers of the potential not simply go along with the crowd. 

That would be a feat akin to getting turkeys to vote for Christmas though.  The clubs which voted against reinstating Toronto were mostly those whose SL status would be threatened by Toronto and then in time Ottawa and New York if they both get off the ground.  A lot more TV money would be needed to sustain any more than 12 teams at the top and with less money reportedly on the horizon in the next contract they're all likely very nervous now.