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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread


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24 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I was a massive admirer of Jiffy but I remember one of his first statements, he commented on playing stand off in League and said something like, "I am looking forward to recieving the ball and having those wide open spaces to run into" he didn't  play very much at No 6 throughout his league career as I recall.

That is such a classic and illustrates much about the mindset within union that two less players makes the space not legends making room and time in something being closed down almost the second you get the ball. It's why "What time does the Rugby start?"  is so appropriate.

This'll be locked in a minute but a good addition to the bash TWP thread as was. Thanks to all who contributed to a bright moment!

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Never had much interest in Union, but I did watch the series when the Lions went to South Africa in the early 90's? because it contained so many ex-league players, I will always remember at the end of the game in the post match interviews Bill McClaren I think it was interviewed winger John Bentley who had scored 2 or 3 tries McClaren admiring the quality of Bentley's tries asked him to describe them, I couldn't believe what was said without the screen going blank but as I said it was live,  Bentley replied along the lines of, "I have played Rugby League for 10 years, and if I can't stand up a Union winger I shouldn't be playing Rugby" Priceless.

1997.. couldnt be early 90s as they were only allowed to convert back after 1995... that was a great tour and the success of it was built on those with a league background bringing their professionalism to the tour.. 

The Living with Lions documentary is worth watching from that too.. even if you are not a fan of union its an interesting general sports watch as a game transfers over from being amateur to pro and its an attitude as much as anything else. Also to see just how much John Bentley wanted to play the test matches.. 

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6 minutes ago, Oxford said:

🤣 RP that's the best laugh I've had for ages, thank you so much!

amazing what you can by chopping quotes up... its why i expanded on it about it being an attitude the attitude of the union game was still amateur

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28 minutes ago, RP London said:

amazing what you can by chopping quotes up... its why i expanded on it about it being an attitude the attitude of the union game was still amateur

Depends entirely where and in which direction you were looking.

Cross-code bin anyone?

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think we do have to be judging marquee success on star quality and getting bums on seats, more viewers, more sponsors etc. otherwise there is little point. 

Unfortunately I think this year has been a bit of a difficult one all round, so not a fair one to judge, but I think there should be question marks around it. It is easy to criticise those who voted against it, but maybe they wanted an increase across the board, or at the lower end, or other changes rather than the approach of paying a handful of players top dollar. But if we've gone down this route, we need to see it through and make the top quality signings. 

At the moment I am swaying to be more favourable towards it, I think some good signings were made this year, but they won't always be a success, but there is no doubt that the likes of Burgess, Widdopp, SBW, Sezer etc added to the attraction of the comp at the start of the year. 

But I think over the next couple of years we need to look at whether we get the benefits from signing these players, obviously we haven't this year unfortunately! 

I don't think there is "little point" without an extra 1000 fans at each game tbh. I see that as far too rigid and in any case missing a bit of the point.

The need for Marquees (and indeed all the other dispensations) reflect how the salary cap in Super League has massively regressed in real terms by staying flat up to 2018. The cost of quality players and imports have gone up with inflation whilst the Super League spending ability didn't. The player drain, and equal lack of top quality signings coming the other way, was indicative of the problem. Those issues cannot be solved overnight.

On the bums on seats thing, I suppose its a problem discussing on here because we are RL nerds in the most part. In wider society, our sport has very little visibility, including the NRL over here, with not very many true "star names".   Equally our own history of depressed wages mean any "marquee money" player at his market value over here isn't forced to be a top echelon player either. With a limited supply of bums on seats names in our sport, let alone our competition, we need to be a bit more patient imo. Sezer for example is a statement of intent from Huddersfield to NRL nuts but also massive influence on the pitch purely as an RL player. I doubt Huddersfield would sell many Sezer 7 shirts before he landed, but will be confident in him as a fan favourite with the return of speccies next year for example. Dare I say Israel Folau has been one of the star players in the League this year? I remember after watching a masterclass from him in a game at Headingley I think that, religious fundamentalism aside, he is exactly the sort of player "marquee" money should be spent on - and certainly a spectator and wider interest attractor. My point is that clubs shouldn't be obliged to spend marquee wages for the sole purpose of bums on seats, but as they need and see fit. Huddersfield needed a half back, they spent marquee money to get one (as did Catalans I believe incidentally with Maloney). Catalans found a way to bring one of the biggest names in rugby to their club.

To some extent, I think marquee players are a way of replicating the effect of the star union converts of days of yore. I'm not old enough to remember that, but I imagine my awe watching Folau do his thing in the air or SBW as a pure physical specimen is similar to seeing Jiffy or Martin Offiah in their pomp?

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17 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't think there is "little point" without an extra 1000 fans at each game tbh. I see that as far too rigid and in any case missing a bit of the point.

This was a bit of a misrepresentation of my point when you edit what I said, which was:

 

I think we do have to be judging marquee success on star quality and getting bums on seats, more viewers, more sponsors etc. otherwise there is little point

If we are addressing inflation etc. there are far better ways than a marquee rule. A marquee rule is about getting better quality players to improve the quality and attract speccies, viewers, media and sponsors. 

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Would like to see the WP return, even if they were playing in the CRL.

One can only dream of what they offered SL  and it could have been plenty if it had not been for Covid etc.

They certainly brought a lot of publicity to the game,  which was sadly lacking .I for one will miss them and just know whoever replaces them won't bring the interest they created.

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1 hour ago, frank said:

Would like to see the WP return, even if they were playing in the CRL.

One can only dream of what they offered SL  and it could have been plenty if it had not been for Covid etc.

They certainly brought a lot of publicity to the game,  which was sadly lacking .I for one will miss them and just know whoever replaces them won't bring the interest they created.

We still have hope with Ottawa. 

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1 hour ago, frank said:

Would like to see the WP return, even if they were playing in the CRL.

One can only dream of what they offered SL  and it could have been plenty if it had not been for Covid etc.

They certainly brought a lot of publicity to the game,  which was sadly lacking .I for one will miss them and just know whoever replaces them won't bring the interest they created.

I recently raised this Frank in the Toronto area and the response was low. It seems the Toronto fans are disillusioned and not coming to RL Forum, not that I can blame them. 

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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Had the Toronto WP declined their opportunity to enter SL due to the draconian conditions insisted on by SL, would they still be around today? They probably wouldn't have spent all that money on SBW but with no games in the Championship and no furlough assistance available, they still would have been in a tight situation. 

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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19 minutes ago, RayCee said:

I recently raised this Frank in the Toronto area and the response was low. It seems the Toronto fans are disillusioned and not coming to RL Forum, not that I can blame them. 

Of course they're disillusioned.  Toronto's a major league city and northern hemisphere RL has been exposed as a small time minor league operation, so chances are that they also feel cheated.

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I can't believe Ottawa RL will actually happen. Who in their right mind would spend ANY money when they know the door can be, and is likely to be, shut to them reaching the top level. And the top level is the only level where you can make money and where there is some semblance of actually running things like a professional sports organization. 

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8 minutes ago, TheReaper said:

I can't believe Ottawa RL will actually happen. Who in their right mind would spend ANY money when they know the door can be, and is likely to be, shut to them reaching the top level. And the top level is the only level where you can make money and where there is some semblance of actually running things like a professional sports organization. 

I agree. Elstone's mate analyzed the Toronto market for SL and decided that it was not viable. Ottawa is a much smaller market and has no chance.

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2 hours ago, TheReaper said:

I can't believe Ottawa RL will actually happen. Who in their right mind would spend ANY money when they know the door can be, and is likely to be, shut to them reaching the top level. And the top level is the only level where you can make money and where there is some semblance of actually running things like a professional sports organization. 

Honestly, they're better off going it alone. Toronto spent $22m in 4 or 5 years (I think I read). 

Get Toronto, Ottawa and the NY team together with similar money to what TWP spent. The NY backer promised £4.3m/year apparently.

Add in a 3 more teams and you've got yourself something likely to get more attention than SL. Get a TV deal. Play some early games to tap into the Aussie market. Take the best SL players. 

Watch how many of the bigger SL clubs raise their eyebrows.

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So maddening when you think of what could have  been  achieved in a couple of years.Three NA teams playing in the English Leagues with a possibility of others being interested, resulting in them  forming a comp in NA.Meanwhile we will still be able to watch the big three slug it out for the silverware.

Is it any wonder SL  can't attract  a bigger fan base.

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52 minutes ago, Pulga said:

Honestly, they're better off going it alone. Toronto spent $22m in 4 or 5 years (I think I read). 

Get Toronto, Ottawa and the NY team together with similar money to what TWP spent. The NY backer promised £4.3m/year apparently.

Add in a 3 more teams and you've got yourself something likely to get more attention than SL. Get a TV deal. Play some early games to tap into the Aussie market. Take the best SL players. 

Watch how many of the bigger SL clubs raise their eyebrows.

Pulga, many on here wanted TWP kicked out purely because it potentially hindered their clubs pathway into SL as Ottawa and New York would have continued with their applications if TWP were welcomed back, and, some on here saw their clubs position in SL endangered if TWP remained in SL.

But after reading your post I wonder how many SL Chairmen or even posters on this site considered that voting against TWP may eventually be a Pyrrhic victory?

Imagine if you are right in your thoughts and such a league evolves to be the second richest league in the world and they raid English clubs for players.

I hope I will still have my faculties to post on here if such a league eventuates as this Toronto thread will be considered a trifling affair to the anger, insults, acrimony and fury that will be vented 😄😄😄😄
 

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4 hours ago, TheReaper said:

I can't believe Ottawa RL will actually happen. Who in their right mind would spend ANY money when they know the door can be, and is likely to be, shut to them reaching the top level. And the top level is the only level where you can make money and where there is some semblance of actually running things like a professional sports organization. 

Agree completely , location should not be a barrier to anybody entering any level 🤔😉

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25 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Pulga, many on here wanted TWP kicked out purely because it potentially hindered their clubs pathway into SL as Ottawa and New York would have continued with their applications if TWP were welcomed back, and, some on here saw their clubs position in SL endangered if TWP remained in SL.

But after reading your post I wonder how many SL Chairmen or even posters on this site considered that voting against TWP may eventually be a Pyrrhic victory?

Imagine if you are right in your thoughts and such a league evolves to be the second richest league in the world and they raid English clubs for players.

I hope I will still have my faculties to post on here if such a league eventuates as this Toronto thread will be considered a trifling affair to the anger, insults, acrimony and fury that will be vented 😄😄😄😄
 

Your scenario is one that was first suggested on here and other MBs over a decade ago 

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Well with a combination of 4 North American teams and 4 French teams, you could put on a 28 game fixture list with two 1-month travel blocks for cross continent games, leaving the Super League to exist as the M62 league it clearly wants to be.

Toronto, Ottawa, New York, Jax Axe, Catalans, Toulouse, Avignon, Aude.

The Atlantic Rugby League. Or AtRL (@RL)

Probably cheaper than running Toronto!

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