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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

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1 hour ago, NOS4A2 said:

Are Toronto Wolfpack Marketing team streets ahead of anyone else in the game? Quite Possibly.

Does this make them a Major club? Not at all.

Could other SL clubs learn from the match day experience at Lamport? Absolutely.

Can the wolfpack learn from the other clubs about staying under the cap...you bet they can!

It wouldn't surprise me to see 5 or so players being shipped in from the NSW cup with a dispensation on finance as well as overseas quota. If this does happen and a club like Wakefield or Huddersfield or god forbid HKR go down as a result of this, expect the court cases to go on for a few years.

Before you jump on the "give them time" bandwagon, ask yourself how much you are willing to sell the game's soul for. Argyle is trying to buy it and we're letting him.

Really!

The major club thing again.

Clearly, if creating a big game atmosphere was easy, they would have done it. What Tontonto could learn from other clubs regarding staying under the salary cap is that it is far easier if you are based in the north of England. A lesson you dismiss as whinging.

Here is a very basic but important point. A little bit of theology for you. A game does not actually have a soul. It has your sentimental attachment about what the game represents to you. That is different, but reality will not change because you are butt hurt.

 

Edited by Bob8
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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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3 minutes ago, NOS4A2 said:

Toronto have bought their way to safety....Huddersfield probably

And I look forward to buying the league eventually as well! Heaven forbid a team gets to pay for the best players available

 

Jeeze some might start to call it a professional sport or something

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53 minutes ago, NOS4A2 said:

Are Toronto Wolfpack Marketing team streets ahead of anyone else in the game? Quite Possibly.

Does this make them a Major club? Not at all.

Could other SL clubs learn from the match day experience at Lamport? Absolutely.

Can the wolfpack learn from the other clubs about staying under the cap...you bet they can!

It wouldn't surprise me to see 5 or so players being shipped in from the NSW cup with a dispensation on finance as well as overseas quota. If this does happen and a club like Wakefield or Huddersfield or god forbid HKR go down as a result of this, expect the court cases to go on for a few years.

Before you jump on the "give them time" bandwagon, ask yourself how much you are willing to sell the game's soul for. Argyle is trying to buy it and we're letting him.

What exactly is your problem with them spending money and why do you care so much? Any other club would do it if they had the resources.

It's getting tiresome.

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9 minutes ago, NOS4A2 said:

No. It related to the post you were responding to.

In terms of your post, you are correct that the "event" is as important as the game if not more so and as a sport we have a lot to learn from others.

The post you were referencing was one that was responding to my claim that they are not a major club and that the beer festival and free tickets are an important part of their marketing. I was told I was talking "rubbish" and "creating facts", which I wasn't because Toronto have freely admitted that the beer garden and free tickets are a major part of their marketing.

As is often the case in debates such as this, various threads merge and diverge, but the reality is that Toronto are a side who play some games out of Canada, are bankrolled 100% by their rich owner, are very VERY good at the PR and Marketing stuff, but not so good at squad management or cap management. They are in SL because they spent ca$21,000,000 getting there, which is more than the 23 sides they played over 3 years spent collectively in that time. This does't make them a Major Club

They are a new club finding their way. They are doing some good things, and some less good things. Like everyone. Whether a club is a major club or even a big club is an abstract thing and I have little interest in it. 

For years as a Wire fan we have been told that we aren't one of the Big 4, yet Bradford are. It is all meaningless titles that are subjective and a case can be made either way. 

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1 minute ago, TboneFromTO said:

And I look forward to buying the league eventually as well! Heaven forbid a team gets to pay for the best players available

Jeeze some might start to call it a professional sport or something

Considering the origin of the sport, it is amazing how many rugby league fans object to professionalism.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Just now, Omott91 said:

What exactly is your problem with them spending money and why do you care so much? Any other club would do it if they had the resources.

It's getting tiresome.

This ain't a TWP thing, they are just the latest to feel the wrath of this weird concept that you somehow have to be a 'pure' club not corrupted by money. 

I'm a Wire and Man City fan and fans of clubs who have always been richer get upset when things start to change. Warrington not being the poor relation like we were when I started watching in the late 80s grates on some people. 

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Just now, Dave T said:

This ain't a TWP thing, they are just the latest to feel the wrath of this weird concept that you somehow have to be a 'pure' club not corrupted by money. 

I'm a Wire and Man City fan and fans of clubs who have always been richer get upset when things start to change. Warrington not being the poor relation like we were when I started watching in the late 80s grates on some people. 

People want their youth back and are upset that times are changing.

 


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Just now, Bob8 said:

People want their youth back and are upset that times are changing.

 

I want my youth back also Bob. I don't want the teams I supported back, both Wire and City were under-achievers! 

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19 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Really!

The major club thing again.

Clearly, if creating a big game atmosphere was easy, they would have done it. What Tontonto could learn from other clubs regarding staying under the salary cap is that it is far easier if you are based in the north of England. A lesson you dismiss as whinging.

Here is a very basic but important point. A little bit of theology for you. A game does not actually have a soul. It has your sentimental attachment about what the game represents to you and your sentimental attachment to it. That is different, but reality will not change because you are butt hurt.

 

they are a major rugby club by north american standards.  hasnt union been around for a century?  well the wolfpack as the new version of rugby trump those.

the crowds in super league will be even better.  they really need a bigger ground to cater for their growth.

they have signed the most famous rugby player in the world across both rugby codes.

SBW was so excited to play for the wolfpack that he took time out in his preparation for a union world cup final to meet with the wolfpack people.

and they get loads of media.

this club is a major player.

and the kind of money they can offer a player cant be matched by any other rugby club worldwide.

it would be funny if the wolfpack were allowed further dispensation on their cap and they gutted the english union team

 

Edited by aj1908
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14 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

What exactly is your problem with them spending money and why do you care so much? Any other club would do it if they had the resources.

It's getting tiresome.

what took you so long.

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33 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I want my youth back also Bob. I don't want the teams I supported back, both Wire and City were under-achievers! 

There should be a little flow chart for posting on this forum:

Are you against something new?
- If yes...

Are you over thirty five?
- If yes...

Are you making same rational arguments?
- If yes....

Really?
- No, actually they are pretty stupid, but I am outraged and it is all wrong and people do not get it!

What has then happened is the modern world has left you (not you personally @Dave T) behind and you are upset at that.

Edited by Bob8
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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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35 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This ain't a TWP thing, they are just the latest to feel the wrath of this weird concept that you somehow have to be a 'pure' club not corrupted by money. 

I'm a Wire and Man City fan and fans of clubs who have always been richer get upset when things start to change. Warrington not being the poor relation like we were when I started watching in the late 80s grates on some people. 

It's always amazed me that an individual taking a club into debt is deemed acceptable but God forbid someone put there own cash into a club to take them above their "level", what are they playing at, that's not rugby league. 

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We will not allow this thread to become a troll’s paradise. 

if you just want to bang on endlessly about how much you hate Toronto, and relentlessly criticise everything the club does in order to inflame it’s supporters who post on here, making the same points over and over and over again until you drive rational people away, get this message: you are not welcome on this forum.

One person has now been banned for the above behaviour. Others will follow if they indulge in the same activity.

For the record, it’s no longer worth responding to any post made by ‘NOS4A2’ because they are no longer a member of this forum.

Anyone who has any issues with this, please PM or email me to discuss privately. I don’t want this thread dragging off topic into a discussion on the forum rules either.

Stick to discussing Toronto Wolfpack, in a rational and even handed manner.

Thanks.

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14 hours ago, JDINTHEHIZZOUSE said:

im torn on the dispensation issue,where do others stand? I want twp to stay up,but could they maybe be given dispensation just for this season?my thoughts are that they spent way too much on contracts last year to get promoted and are now stuck with the contracted players,which plays a big part in this issue. If they are given the leeway for this season,would it be a % of the cap? or could another solution be to let them sign say,another 7 players on a 1 year contract?

It comes back to what the salary cap is for.

If is it to give the traditional clubs the best possible chance, then there can be no dispensation - thems the rules.

If it is to lessen (to the forum thickies - that does not mean eliminate) the chance of clubs going bankrupt, then it is arguable.

If it is to give an even chance, there must be dispensation as being in Canada is a major disadvantage.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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3 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

It comes back to what the salary cap is for.

If is it to give the traditional clubs the best possible chance, then there can be no dispensation - thems the rules.

If it is to lessen (to the forum thickies - that does not mean eliminate) the chance of clubs going bankrupt, then it is arguable.

If it is to give an even chance, there must be dispensation as being in Canada is a major disadvantage.

And what if it is to suppress wage inflation.....?

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6 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

And what if it is to suppress wage inflation.....?

I would say that fits in with clubs not bankrupting themselves.


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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8 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

And what if it is to suppress wage inflation.....?

to be fair thats not applicable in super league given union and nrl offer much higher wages.

its what bob8 says above.  keeping wages affordable given the games income

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15 hours ago, Kayakman said:

There has to be another way...thats why we need the dispensation...let focus on what is good for the game.

I find it really strange in that this has only just been raised in anger.  If it has already been raised, during the Sky money split, then somebody has been sat on their hands doing nothing.  Not encouraging for any others considering a similar venture.

Genuine questions mate.  Do you think lashing out 3m was the best way forward for TWP and also considering squad requirements for 2020?  

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13 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

I find it really strange in that this has only just been raised in anger.  If it has already been raised, during the Sky money split, then somebody has been sat on their hands doing nothing.  Not encouraging for any others considering a similar venture.

Genuine questions mate.  Do you think lashing out 3m was the best way forward for TWP and also considering squad requirements for 2020?  

They have been asking publicly since late November, I would imagine they've been asking the league since before going public with it.  It's not sudden at all really.

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48 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Genuine questions mate.  Do you think lashing out 3m was the best way forward for TWP and also considering squad requirements for 2020?  

Yes.

1. Money isn't the obstacle; salary cap is. SBW only counts a relatively small amount against the team's salary cap.

2. SBW is a publicity-raising acquisition first and an on-field purchase second. Hopefully a really great player but he's already earned his crust in the international awareness he's brought both TWP and Super League.

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The salary cap.dispensation issue is never going to be solved. It really just wont work with the game as it is  now

The SC does disproportionately affect some clubs, and that is unfair. But a club being allowed to spend more is also unfair. 

Would you accept your team being relegated because of the SC creating unfairness? Because whether Toronto are or arent allowed a dispensation the salary cap will be unfair 

It's a symptom of how the game isnt set up for growth. Even in a best case scenario clubs cannot grow the game and we cannot take advantage of that growth.

There are structural barriers to growth that exist in all aspects

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2 hours ago, Oxford said:

Never said you did just said it's rife, not unusal and part of the make up of the forum.

image.png.3e08b5e64b5dd7ab9abe435806d0bbd1.png

And now for the health warning

Devoted football fans experience 'dangerous' levels of stress, suggests study

"Dr. Martha Newson, a researcher at the Centre for the Study of Social Cohesion at Oxford, said: "Fans who are strongly fused with their team - that is, have a strong sense of being 'one' with their team - experience the greatest physiological stress response when watching a match, Fans who are more casual supporters also experience stress but not so extremely."

So "Blow That Whistle Ref!"

 

And a non-fan experiences no stress at all. Jeez, I would have thought that was kinda obvious.

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37 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

They have been asking publicly since late November, I would imagine they've been asking the league since before going public with it.  It's not sudden at all really.

IMO semantics.  Considering the season starts in Feb then I would class 2 months before too short a time and sudden enough.  During that time an agreement has to be made and also resources committed to, to source and engage players and/or staff.  This plus training, relocations etc etc.

Would you say 2 months is adequate to do all the above?

This should have been sorted before the 2019 season even started.

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If you put aside the TWP angle for a moment, why is raising the salary cap a bad idea? Younger prospects/players not in the top squad are being paid peanuts. I have listened to three years of griping that there is only a finite pool of good northern lads in the sport and expansion teams will poach them away.

What if there was a bit less of the wage suppression so more of the northern sons could afford to play full time?

What if less wealthy clubs used the attention that TWP are bringing to the start of the season to up their sponsorships?

Perhaps TWP wouldn't be the only beneficiaries.

 

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1 hour ago, John Drake said:

We will not allow this thread to become a troll’s paradise. 

if you just want to bang on endlessly about how much you hate Toronto, and relentlessly criticise everything the club does in order to inflame it’s supporters who post on here, making the same points over and over and over again until you drive rational people away, get this message: you are not welcome on this forum.

One person has now been banned for the above behaviour. Others will follow if they indulge in the same activity.

For the record, it’s no longer worth responding to any post made by ‘NOS4A2’ because they are no longer a member of this forum.

Anyone who has any issues with this, please PM or email me to discuss privately. I don’t want this thread dragging off topic into a discussion on the forum rules either.

Stick to discussing Toronto Wolfpack, in a rational and even handed manner.

Thanks.

Herding cats, John, herding cats.

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