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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

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3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

So much given to interpretation, are these classified as Rules or Laws, as I understand it Rules should be adhered to whilst Laws are open to questioning.

It is in the 'Operation Rules 2020 Tier 1-3'.

Edited by TBone

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36 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Great news, he’s a fantastic player. On the back of this I’m confident Toronto will get a victory against Wakefield. The Wolfpack’s start to the season hasn’t been ideal, but they’ve had the toughest start to the season of any club. 

You would almost think someone planned it out that way.

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42 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Great news, he’s a fantastic player. On the back of this I’m confident Toronto will get a victory against Wakefield. The Wolfpack’s start to the season hasn’t been ideal, but they’ve had the toughest start to the season of any club. 

Much the same as Leigh in 2017

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Much the same as Leigh in 2017

Ya...and I bet that wasn't a fluke either.

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Just as highlight of the impossible nature of what Toronto are being asked to do

Last year Leeds broke the SC. In the explanation for it GH explained that part of it was down to not lodging the contracts at the right time( if you want to say it's a strict liability offence fine  but when clubs keep tripping over the rules maybe it says something about their complexity) 

The more interesting part was that it was down to two players, Jack Walker and luke Briscoe moving from part-time to full time terms.

Think about that. Jack walker has 60+ games under his belt, has won a GF, is the first choice fullback for one of the premier clubs in the country, an england knights player and a top young prospect. Up until last year he wasnt earning a full time wage. 

There is no reason to assume that walkers situation is replicated throughout the league with the best young players, established young players not even being low paid full time pros but part time players. 

How can toronto compete with that?

Even if they had the best youth system in the world, a transatlantic club cant operate with part time players. 

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2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Just as highlight of the impossible nature of what Toronto are being asked to do

Last year Leeds broke the SC. In the explanation for it GH explained that part of it was down to not lodging the contracts at the right time( if you want to say it's a strict liability offence fine  but when clubs keep tripping over the rules maybe it says something about their complexity) 

The more interesting part was that it was down to two players, Jack Walker and luke Briscoe moving from part-time to full time terms.

Think about that. Jack walker has 60+ games under his belt, has won a GF, is the first choice fullback for one of the premier clubs in the country, an england knights player and a top young prospect. Up until last year he wasnt earning a full time wage. 

There is no reason to assume that walkers situation is replicated throughout the league with the best young players, established young players not even being low paid full time pros but part time players. 

How can toronto compete with that?

Even if they had the best youth system in the world, a transatlantic club cant operate with part time players. 

Which is why they should be allowed dispensation for the home produced and long service allowances other clubs have , which they obviously cannot have 

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41 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Think about that. Jack walker has 60+ games under his belt, has won a GF, is the first choice fullback for one of the premier clubs in the country, an england knights player and a top young prospect. Up until last year he wasnt earning a full time wage. 

And you want players of his age irrespective of appearances and accolades removing from the cap, or was it just to suit your argument at the time? 

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40 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Which is why they should be allowed dispensation for the home produced and long service allowances other clubs have , which they obviously cannot have 

No, no, no, nothing less than unlimited spending power and transferring the Roosters squad over in its entirety, including Trent Robinson.

Why has no one thought of this before, it should appease all those who believe they should have different rules to the rest of the clubs.

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46 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Just as highlight of the impossible nature of what Toronto are being asked to do

Last year Leeds broke the SC. In the explanation for it GH explained that part of it was down to not lodging the contracts at the right time( if you want to say it's a strict liability offence fine  but when clubs keep tripping over the rules maybe it says something about their complexity) 

The more interesting part was that it was down to two players, Jack Walker and luke Briscoe moving from part-time to full time terms.

Think about that. Jack walker has 60+ games under his belt, has won a GF, is the first choice fullback for one of the premier clubs in the country, an england knights player and a top young prospect. Up until last year he wasnt earning a full time wage. 

There is no reason to assume that walkers situation is replicated throughout the league with the best young players, established young players not even being low paid full time pros but part time players. 

How can toronto compete with that?

Even if they had the best youth system in the world, a transatlantic club cant operate with part time players. 

Leeds' breach was in 2018. 

In 2017 Walker wasn't named in the squad of 30 players at the start of the season, but came through and played 14 first team games that year. 

In 2018 he was given number 24 and promoted to a full time contract that year. 

That seems a relatively straight forward journey from the Academy, albeit he leapfrogged a few lads because of his talent. 

So the question them becomes how do TWP access young lads to fill places 24 to 30? There seems to be a few options, none of which have been progressed by TWP. 

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5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And you want players of his age irrespective of appearances and accolades removing from the cap, or was it just to suit your argument at the time? 

I dont want a cap at all Harry. I think a points system, if anything, would work much better

But having youngsters not count is better than what we have now

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45 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Which is why they should be allowed dispensation for the home produced and long service allowances other clubs have , which they obviously cannot have 

But it's not even the dispensation. Obviously they should be allowed that simply so they can spend the same absolute amount. 

But that doesnt address the inherent disadvantage they have in terms of the disproportionate effect the cap has 

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Leeds' breach was in 2018. 

In 2017 Walker wasn't named in the squad of 30 players at the start of the season, but came through and played 14 first team games that year. 

In 2018 he was given number 24 and promoted to a full time contract that year. 

That seems a relatively straight forward journey from the Academy, albeit he leapfrogged a few lads because of his talent. 

So the question them becomes how do TWP access young lads to fill places 24 to 30? There seems to be a few options, none of which have been progressed by TWP. 

Walker was leeds first choice in 2018 with a grand final win behind him. 

It isnt out of the ordinary, that is my point. It's almost certainly the case for players like A Sutcliffe, Walters, Mustapha, Johnson, Holroyd et al. 

Most sides are operating at about 24 full time players. I would be astounded if any are running at 30 full time pros. 

Can we really pretend that all the 17 HKR named last night are full time pros? 

It is an issue that will constantly effect Toronto disproportionately. The SC as it is set up doesnt work when it is required that all players in a squad are full time pros on wages that would fund time away from home. 

 

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4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Walker was leeds first choice in 2018 with a grand final win behind him. 

It isnt out of the ordinary, that is my point. It's almost certainly the case for players like A Sutcliffe, Walters, Mustapha, Johnson, Holroyd et al. 

Most sides are operating at about 24 full time players. I would be astounded if any are running at 30 full time pros. 

Can we really pretend that all the 17 HKR named last night are full time pros? 

It is an issue that will constantly effect Toronto disproportionately. The SC as it is set up doesnt work when it is required that all players in a squad are full time pros on wages that would fund time away from home. 

 

I agree on the disadvantage around lower squad players, hence being supportive of allowances. I do get frustrated that TWP haven't helped themselves too much. Make-up of SL squads isn't a hidden secret that they have just found out about. 

One thing I did find interesting was a reference that an SL club cannot play a player on less than £15k per annum. Is this a new requirement? 

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18 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I dont want a cap at all Harry. I think a points system, if anything, would work much better

But having youngsters not count is better than what we have now

It would most definatley help at Leeds, I agree with you Scotchy but I am still of tge opinion I was before, if a youngster is good enough to play 10 first team games that allowance should be withdrawn.

And as for no cap what do you really want to happen as far as the league is concerned, it is still not really competitive at the moment, for all the years since '98 that the salary cap has been in existance we have had only 4 clubs win the big gong, and surprise surprise they would be amongst the few clubs who could out buy most others, do you recall when Wigan could outspend everyone, we could sitback and admire the Wigan team but it didn't do the game much good did it?

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27 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I agree on the disadvantage around lower squad players, hence being supportive of allowances. I do get frustrated that TWP haven't helped themselves too much. Make-up of SL squads isn't a hidden secret that they have just found out about. 

One thing I did find interesting was a reference that an SL club cannot play a player on less than £15k per annum. Is this a new requirement? 

Its minimum wage isnt it

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18 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It would most definatley help at Leeds, I agree with you Scotchy but I am still of tge opinion I was before, if a youngster is good enough to play 10 first team games that allowance should be withdrawn.

And as for no cap what do you really want to happen as far as the league is concerned, it is still not really competitive at the moment, for all the years since '98 that the salary cap has been in existance we have had only 4 clubs win the big gong, and surprise surprise they would be amongst the few clubs who could out buy most others, do you recall when Wigan could outspend everyone, we could sitback and admire the Wigan team but it didn't do the game much good did it?

A salary cap doesnt work for a multi national league and it doesnt work with P+R

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8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Its minimum wage isnt it

Suppose that depends on your age and hours. 

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4 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Can we really pretend that all the 17 HKR named last night are full time pros? 

 

 

Every single one of them is a full time professional with a full time contract.

Who on earth do you think isn't? Do you reckon Shaun Kenny-Dowall does a bit of window cleaning through the week?

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12 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Do they have a minimum wage in Toronto?

$14/HR. No one can survive in Toronto on that.

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11 minutes ago, Michael1812 said:

That is £8.14. The London living wage is £10.55. I am sure you can do the math. 

Toronto is reckoned to be 20% cheaper than London  (https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/london/toronto,https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=Canada&city2=Toronto ) so it is very, very similar.

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Just for reference purposes, a General Admission to a Wolfpack game at Lamport costs $35 - taxes etc push it close to $40 ie, 2 1/2 times minimum wage. How does that compare to a UK game?

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