Kayakman Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 31 minutes ago, Clogiron said: Makes you think they dodged a bullet with the game against Saint's last week, if the conditions had been better Saints would have been likely to have at least equaled that score. I have always been in favour of Toronto because I feel that they were the thing most likely to drag the RFL into the 21st Century and make it relevant to today's society, a big, modern city with a young affluent population was a golden opportunity to move our game forward in the Northern Hemisphere. Unfortunately it looks like the thing that will stifle them most is old fashioned rugby smarts, how to build a strong durable playing roster. Irrespective of what could or should have been done to help them, as in the Catalan's model, what would have been their best move would have been to engaged front office staff from the NRL, horse's for courses may have been the idea but they were badly advised in coaching, football manager etc appointments hence the situation they find themselves in now. With all the obstacles and barriers that SL had put in our way there was certain to a bit of a sparse stretch....we will deal with it and then overcome it....its all going to be fine Clogger....all going to be fine in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 18 minutes ago, Keith989 said: Well I've watched my first ever games of SL because of the Wolfpack, I'm interested to see how they get on. They will definetly attract casual viewers to tune in. Good on ya Keith....we lose a few games and people seem to think the sky is falling in.....if a couple of calls had went our way we could have had them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR23 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 18 minutes ago, Kayakman said: YOU WILL EAT THOSE WORDS! We need Stanley in the line up to break the bad streak...he is an excellent defensive center as is Leutele. Once we get Lussick back he will lower the shoulder and close some of those gaps in the forward pack. Then the tide will turn. Getting Lussick and Stanley back will definately be an improvement (Springer missed 9 tackles last night and Miloudi costs a try or two every game). The issue is that finding cap space for Stanley will make it hard to find space for Gigot. You fix one issue then another arises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBone Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Lets look at this a slightly different way... Leeds took about 4 minutes to score their first try, a rate of 1.5pts per minute - projected score 120 points Leeds second try came at about 9 mins, a rate 0 1.33 points per minute - projected score ~ 106 pts Actual Leeds scoring rate 0.825 POSITIVITY - Toronto progressively reduced Leeds' scoring rate after 4 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, LR23 said: Getting Lussick and Stanley back will definately be an improvement (Springer missed 9 tackles last night and Miloudi costs a try or two every game). The issue is that finding cap space for Stanley will make it hard to find space for Gigot. You fix one issue then another arises. O'Brien belongs there anyways....getting Stanley back is the key to solidifying the outer fringe defence....Lussick will help strengthen the forwards. ITS ALL GOING TO BE OKAY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 51 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Regardless of all that Harry, the fact remains that come the end of the season despite being played on a cold Thursday night at the start of March, being on TV and Toronto bringing "No Away fans", they definitely won't be the lowest gate at Headingley this season. Indeed, from the figures I could just find now it seems they drew more than the Warrington game too!? Obviously though it must be recognised rightly that none of the crowd I was in last night really wanted to be there, and would much rather we were playing Batley in front of 300. Sonny Bill Williams wasn't even mentioned. Brilliant evasive tactics Tommy, can you run fast? You will make a good old fashioned No 6 if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith989 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 49 minutes ago, Kayakman said: Good on ya Keith....we lose a few games and people seem to think the sky is falling in.....if a couple of calls had went our way we could have had them! Yeah no need to panic just yet, I think they will be tough to beat in Toronto. The problem I see is that there is simply no way the current fixture format is sustainable for the Wolfpack. You can't have your home games in an empty stadium across the Atlantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfolly Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Keep up the positivity Kayak but if you think a centre and a second rower are going to fix up your problems you are being a little bit deluded. Any R.L. supporter will tell you to be successful you need a good solid spine through the team. A Full Back, a Scrum Half,A Hooker and a Loose Forward. At the moment Toronto do not have any of those ,well not S.L. players anyway. SBW certainly was in his heyday but I think he will struggle to hit any heights now in R.L. But, as long as you keep supporting then you are doing your bit to help . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 35 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Brilliant evasive tactics Tommy, can you run fast? You will make a good old fashioned No 6 if you can. No evasion Harry, though I wasn't a bad number 6 in either code! In all seriousness the amount of chat about SBW was surprising in the pubs and generally this week at Uni, and the Leeds marketing team clearly played up that point. The stuff you noted is almost totally irrelevant to the overall point that our game vs Toronto will not be the lowest crowd despite the "away fans" and yours and others on social media claiming there's no interest etc. and even then thats in spite of the 3 factors I mentioned (Thursday Night, TV game, freezing) normally being wheeled out as reasons why this sort of fixture would be lower attended. Imagine if they played it on a Friday night instead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Clogiron said: Unfortunately it looks like the thing that will stifle them most is old fashioned rugby smarts, how to build a strong durable playing roster. Irrespective of what could or should have been done to help them, as in the Catalan's model, what would have been their best move would have been to engaged front office staff from the NRL, horse's for courses may have been the idea but they were badly advised in coaching, football manager etc appointments hence the situation they find themselves in now. Agree with this but last night Noble hinted that David Argyle is perhaps unrealistic in his demands for instant success. Noble & Vickers have royally messed things up but perhaps Toronto’s obsession with ‘eyeballs’ suggests the vision of the leadership is somewhat misguided? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: No evasion Harry, though I wasn't a bad number 6 in either code! You played stand off and flanker? interesting positional change, Tommy haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Keith989 said: Yeah no need to panic just yet, I think they will be tough to beat in Toronto. The problem I see is that there is simply no way the current fixture format is sustainable for the Wolfpack. You can't have your home games in an empty stadium across the Atlantic. They won't let us play the home games in blocks...we asked and they gave us a firm no...it ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 2 hours ago, fairfolly said: Keep up the positivity Kayak but if you think a centre and a second rower are going to fix up your problems you are being a little bit deluded. Any R.L. supporter will tell you to be successful you need a good solid spine through the team. A Full Back, a Scrum Half,A Hooker and a Loose Forward. At the moment Toronto do not have any of those ,well not S.L. players anyway. SBW certainly was in his heyday but I think he will struggle to hit any heights now in R.L. But, as long as you keep supporting then you are doing your bit to help . RUGBY GODS WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN US! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Room Lizard Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Brian Noble once again tried to buy big and made a hash of things. His whole philosophy seems to be sign experienced players at any cost with little or no thought about looking at youngsters who could make the grade on low wages. His signings have mainly been over rated has beens or not beens on too much money. He talks a good game but sadly he has no idea about building a team for the future using youngsters and players that maybe are not headline grabbers but are reliable and wont let you down. I blame Torontos problems very much on Brian Noble and his poor management and recruitment. Using FT players to win mainly Part time Leagues was not what Toronto needed to do. Hopefully Toronto find a Player Recruitment Manager that knows the game-especially the younger end of the market in the UK and Australia/NZ/Pacific Islands to rebuild using sensible money and a realistic plan. Maybe a couple of experienced old heads to guide them. Toronto has potential and the game needs to look after them better than what they have. This small world attitude is why League is where it is in my opinion. Toronto also maybe need to look to recruit one or two North American Young Rugby/American Football guys and loan them out to a League 1 Club (Maybe Ottowa/NY or a club that has a good Coach with youngsters, to develop in time. Get them game time at a level they can deal with and hopefully in time one or two in a decade or more will make it in SL. But that is a long term thing requiring much patience and understanding from all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayme2020 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said: Brian Noble once again tried to buy big and made a hash of things. His whole philosophy seems to be sign experienced players at any cost with little or no thought about looking at youngsters who could make the grade on low wages. His signings have mainly been over rated has beens or not beens on too much money. He talks a good game but sadly he has no idea about building a team for the future using youngsters and players that maybe are not headline grabbers but are reliable and wont let you down. I blame Torontos problems very much on Brian Noble and his poor management and recruitment. Using FT players to win mainly Part time Leagues was not what Toronto needed to do. Hopefully Toronto find a Player Recruitment Manager that knows the game-especially the younger end of the market in the UK and Australia/NZ/Pacific Islands to rebuild using sensible money and a realistic plan. Maybe a couple of experienced old heads to guide them. Toronto has potential and the game needs to look after them better than what they have. This small world attitude is why League is where it is in my opinion. Toronto also maybe need to look to recruit one or two North American Young Rugby/American Football guys and loan them out to a League 1 Club (Maybe Ottowa/NY or a club that has a good Coach with youngsters, to develop in time. Get them game time at a level they can deal with and hopefully in time one or two in a decade or more will make it in SL. But that is a long term thing requiring much patience and understanding from all. I think the best hope for Toronto right now is Ottawa would be willing to work as a feeder team for then this would solve some of the issue facing the TWP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 3 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: You played stand off and flanker? interesting positional change, Tommy haha! Played everywhere bar prop by the end haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfolly Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Jaymee, As far as using Ottawa as a feeder team, I think you will find they will fill their team with Championship or League 1 players. I can not for a minute think will be prepared to field a team of youngsters to get hammered every week a la West Wales.young kids, unless they are exceptional will come up against a lot of "old heads" in League 1 who will show them no mercy.I remember an old tale about Derek (Rocky) Turner once belting a young kid,laying him out. When one of his team mates told him to go careful with the kids, his answer, they are getting paid the same as I am.Plenty of these players about in League 1. I would not fancy sending a young team of kids up to Workington on a cold wintry day.No,they will be full of experienced players,maybe 1 or 2 trialists that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Ottawa will be in it to win it...just have to be seen as that in the local market....as long as they are perceived that way they have a good chance of success. Will they spend the full cap? I say Yes or most of it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayme2020 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 38 minutes ago, Kayakman said: Ottawa will be in it to win it...just have to be seen as that in the local market....as long as they are perceived that way they have a good chance of success. Will they spend the full cap? I say Yes or most of it anyway. The RedBlacks have 17,000 season ticket holders the new basketball team leads the league in season ticket sales and have not played a game and the soccer team seems to have a fair amount of interest for season tickets. I think the rugby team should have no issue having a good season ticket base and if they work with the other teams it could help all the teams reach the fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jayme2020 said: The RedBlacks have 17,000 season ticket holders the new basketball team leads the league in season ticket sales and have not played a game and the soccer team seems to have a fair amount of interest for season tickets. I think the rugby team should have no issue having a good season ticket base and if they work with the other teams it could help all the teams reach the fan base. Exactly....but they must be seen to be striving to win...both with their fans and their record. Ottawa has always loved a 'tryer' in their sports....Toronto a winner or loser...no grey area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayme2020 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 44 minutes ago, Kayakman said: Exactly....but they must be seen to be striving to win...both with their fans and their record. Ottawa has always loved a 'tryer' in their sports....Toronto a winner or loser...no grey area. Yes i think they will strive to win maybe not player off but i think they will compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Jayme2020 said: Yes i think they will strive to win maybe not player off but i think they will compete. They have to compete...they have to strive foe the title....they have to give it their all... AND THATS JUST THE FANS I'M TALKING ABOUT.... WAIT UNTIL YOU SEE WHAT THE PLAYERS HAVE TO DO!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReaper Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 8 hours ago, Jayme2020 said: The RedBlacks have 17,000 season ticket holders the new basketball team leads the league in season ticket sales and have not played a game and the soccer team seems to have a fair amount of interest for season tickets. I think the rugby team should have no issue having a good season ticket base and if they work with the other teams it could help all the teams reach the fan base. Where'd you hear that about the BlackJacks? That's interesting to hear, not much of a basketball fan but like to see Canadian leagues do well. We'll see if the RBs keep that up, they were a bit of a disaster last year and I don't know if they've fixed it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 19 hours ago, Kayakman said: Not really, the weather is far more of a factor. Remember that this is Toronto so we are used to long losing streaks. I can only speak for myself and my Clan but we will be there! Very true. If losing scared off the fans Toronto wouldn't have any sports teams. Curiously, the only exception to this rule are the Argonauts and not even winning a championship can right that ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 18 hours ago, TBone said: Lets look at this a slightly different way... Leeds took about 4 minutes to score their first try, a rate of 1.5pts per minute - projected score 120 points Leeds second try came at about 9 mins, a rate 0 1.33 points per minute - projected score ~ 106 pts Actual Leeds scoring rate 0.825 POSITIVITY - Toronto progressively reduced Leeds' scoring rate after 4 minutes So if the game was 180 minutes long instead of just 80 the Wolfpack would finally be able to keep the Rhinos from scoring? Interesting theory. Of course by then the score might well be 180-18... Btw, just what is the worst drubbing in SL history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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