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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread


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I am devastated by todays decision.Obviously I think its wrong but I think it shows the narrow minded thinking of most super league clubs.I very much doubt the Wolfpack will ever be back as I don't se

Rugby League as a sport - fans, owners, administrators, the lot - gets what it deserves. There was an opportunity here, an owner who's spent £10m, a growing fanbase and a very attractive market,

To avoid the forum being swamped with dozens of individual threads about Toronto which generally all end up heading down the same rabbit hole eventually anyway, we're opening this general discussion t

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1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

Going here and back again this time.trail-canada-ontario-bruce-trail-peninsula-section-at-map-17051245-1486593230-1200x630-3-5.jpg.c517e0c7b2c503d74ed3eebb3d5d15ab.jpg

Loving it Kman!  I've never hiked up there.  Spent a lot of time in Algonquin though.  Used to live right beside the park in Deep River!

Come out to BC and we can smash a few hikes up the Mountains.  I'm planning on doing Albert Edward in a month or so!

Did a little afternoon trip up in the Cowichan Valley the other day, lovely Country!

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5 hours ago, Loup said:

Toronto Argos crowds are getting smaller as the fan base gets older.  CFL isn't doing well at attracting young sports fans, who are choosing other teams to follow.

Also CFL tends to appeal to a blue collar demographic, especially in BC, as property prices in the cities become even more unattainable to all but rich professionals the fan base moves further and further out, why spend 2hours each way travel when the games on TV and you have beer at your seat!

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22 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

Also CFL tends to appeal to a blue collar demographic, especially in BC, as property prices in the cities become even more unattainable to all but rich professionals the fan base moves further and further out, why spend 2hours each way travel when the games on TV and you have beer at your seat!

Well then I must invite you to the kcom, you can take your beer to your seat here! 😊

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2 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

Loving it Kman!  I've never hiked up there.  Spent a lot of time in Algonquin though.  Used to live right beside the park in Deep River!

Come out to BC and we can smash a few hikes up the Mountains.  I'm planning on doing Albert Edward in a month or so!

Did a little afternoon trip up in the Cowichan Valley the other day, lovely Country!

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Nice pics...I used to go to a real good rugby tourney in Deep River...nice country indeed.  

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Josh McCrone has gone home, Sonny Bill and Ricky Leutele are ‘packing their bags’.

On the plus side, it looks like Toronto should at least be able to raise a matchday squad of 17 with emergency signings (possibly Championship players), and avoiding the damaging prospect of not being able to fulfil fixtures.

https://www.totalrl.com/wolfpacks-overseas-stars-start-to-head-home/

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They’re going to go pop, aren’t they? I don’t get any joy from that either. It makes the game look bad, it further fans the flames of anti-expansionists with another expansion team having failed, a load of people will be unemployed, even temporarily, there will be businesses and people not paid what they’re rightfully owed and Super League as a league and organisation looks a lot less credible as an elite level of the sport with one of its teams going bust mid/post-season.

Maybe Robert Elstone was right to ask more questions of Toronto than other clubs, he can certainly claim to be should they cease, though it doesn’t make his tenure any better, if anything, significantly worse. There will also be others, certainly many here and no doubt, in the media too, who will almost celebrate Toronto’s demise and say that they told us so but I see that as wasted energy, personally. 

Toronto have probably got some odd-field things wrong, to date, but I think Rugby League as a collective has certainly got things wrong around Toronto wrong too. As a sport it’s always looked like we’ve never had a plan. We’ve had ideas of what we’d like the game to look like and to grow to but never a proper plan of how to get there and how to make it work and Toronto’s addition and subsequent rise has been no different either. This was one man’s idea. Nothing to do with The RFL, Super League or anyone else. They didn’t and still don’t have a plan on how they want expansion in the game here or elsewhere. If it wasn’t for a collective of wealthy people, would we still have Coventry, Skolars or Newcastle and would Catalans even still be around if it wasn’t for the last clear plan around expansion, the safety net they were given around Super League status? Quite possibly not. I’ve felt that the game has piggybacked onto the hard work in the North East rather than been the driving force behind it but that’s probably a different discussion.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Josh McCrone has gone home, Sonny Bill and Ricky Leutele are ‘packing their bags’.

On the plus side, it looks like Toronto should at least be able to raise a matchday squad of 17 with emergency signings (possibly Championship players), and avoiding the damaging prospect of not being able to fulfil fixtures.

https://www.totalrl.com/wolfpacks-overseas-stars-start-to-head-home/

I can't read the article. Does it say that McCrone and the others have left/are leaving the club the club altogether? Or are they just flying home to comply with visa expiration but planned to return?

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1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

They’re going to go pop, aren’t they? I don’t get any joy from that either. It makes the game look bad, it further fans the flames of anti-expansionists with another expansion team having failed, a load of people will be unemployed, even temporarily, there will be businesses and people not paid what they’re rightfully owed and Super League as a league and organisation looks a lot less credible as an elite level of the sport with one of its teams going bust mid/post-season.

Maybe Robert Elstone was right to ask more questions of Toronto than other clubs, he can certainly claim to be should they cease, though it doesn’t make his tenure any better, if anything, significantly worse. There will also be others, certainly many here and no doubt, in the media too, who will almost celebrate Toronto’s demise and say that they told us so but I see that as wasted energy, personally. 

Toronto have probably got some odd-field things wrong, to date, but I think Rugby League as a collective has certainly got things wrong around Toronto wrong too. As a sport it’s always looked like we’ve never had a plan. We’ve had ideas of what we’d like the game to look like and to grow to but never a proper plan of how to get there and how to make it work and Toronto’s addition and subsequent rise has been no different either. This was one man’s idea. Nothing to do with The RFL, Super League or anyone else. They didn’t and still don’t have a plan on how they want expansion in the game here or elsewhere. If it wasn’t for a collective of wealthy people, would we still have Coventry, Skolars or Newcastle and would Catalans even still be around if it wasn’t for the last clear plan around expansion, the safety net they were given around Super League status? Quite possibly not. I’ve felt that the game has piggybacked onto the hard work in the North East rather than been the driving force behind it but that’s probably a different discussion.

 

 

 

The rumours of our demise have been greatly exaggerated.

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It’s really not looking good, even with those players not finishing bottom would be an achievement given the small squad which is about to be stretched even further than it would have been pre Covid. Without them there is the high probability of some real ugly blow out scores. Feels a little like the year London first got relegated, a woefully inadequate team getting blown away each week with ever diminishing interest. However London rallied, partly because of the dedication of Mr Hughes, partly by being able to rebuild using a mixture of imports and locals and partly by some real solid coaching. Now it’s hard to say what is going through Mr Argyles mind, but there’s no locals to fill holes and I’m still not sold on McDermott as a coach when he doesn’t have a core of vastly experienced players at his disposal. I suspect Leigh fans will get their wish of SL rugby in 2021 as TWP will probably fold at the end of the season.

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51 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

I can't read the article. Does it say that McCrone and the others have left/are leaving the club the club altogether? Or are they just flying home to comply with visa expiration but planned to return?

"No it doesn't say that....his VISA will expire (as will the others except for Stanley)....this is another one of those easily solved problems that should never have been an issue...the RFL needs to quickly get its act together on the Toronto file"....

Come on Rubberduck...this is the Kayakman rolling down the shore....OVER.

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5 minutes ago, Oldbear said:

It’s really not looking good, even with those players not finishing bottom would be an achievement given the small squad which is about to be stretched even further than it would have been pre Covid. Without them there is the high probability of some real ugly blow out scores. Feels a little like the year London first got relegated, a woefully inadequate team getting blown away each week with ever diminishing interest. However London rallied, partly because of the dedication of Mr Hughes, partly by being able to rebuild using a mixture of imports and locals and partly by some real solid coaching. Now it’s hard to say what is going through Mr Argyles mind, but there’s no locals to fill holes and I’m still not sold on McDermott as a coach when he doesn’t have a core of vastly experienced players at his disposal. I suspect Leigh fans will get their wish of SL rugby in 2021 as TWP will probably fold at the end of the season.

Not going to happen Oldbear....that berry juice you've been eating on has fermented a bit I see...take it to the bank.  We will get by this season with a little help from our friends....who are many and willing.

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1 minute ago, CanadianRugger said:

Honestly, it's embarrassing that the marquee player in the league may not play due to such a stupid issue.  Make TWP a full member of Super League already.

I'll bet you that Sonny Bill will be there!   Any takers?

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1 minute ago, Kayakman said:

Not going to happen Oldbear....that berry juice you've been eating on has fermented a bit I see...take it to the bank.  We will get by this season with a little help from our friends....who are many and willing.

Sure hope so, but you have to forgive my worries, you see I have seen this kind of problem a few too many times before, remember my intro to RL was via Fulham/London, then when I moved to the North East my team was Carlisle, then Gateshead/Newcastle. I have lost count of the number of times I have seen financial crises, supposed rescue packages, issues with imports and some willing, but out of their depth volunteers trying to hold things together. The only thing that gives me hope about TWP is that Mr Argyle is rich, but he has made some seriously bad hires and I wonder about his level of patience with everything that has happened, and of course the lack of support from the governing body. Whenever London went through their frequent crises there was always a core group of supporters determined not to let things die (some of them even worked their asses off to make Polytechnic Stadium Chiswick fit to hold games), and of course the Thunder Army is the main reason there is a team in Newcastle today. These efforts were bolstered by the commitment of local players who put their bodies on the line and got battered each week for very little money, my own RL heroes were guys like Kevin Neighbour, Robin Peers, Neil Thorman, Jason Payne and Joe Brown who went over and above the call of duty to keep Thunder alive. I just don’t see those players, or committed supporters at TWP, maybe I’m wrong, I hope I am, I just feel nervous right now.

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4 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

They’re going to go pop, aren’t they? I don’t get any joy from that either. It makes the game look bad, it further fans the flames of anti-expansionists with another expansion team having failed, a load of people will be unemployed, even temporarily, there will be businesses and people not paid what they’re rightfully owed and Super League as a league and organisation looks a lot less credible as an elite level of the sport with one of its teams going bust mid/post-season.

Maybe Robert Elstone was right to ask more questions of Toronto than other clubs, he can certainly claim to be should they cease, though it doesn’t make his tenure any better, if anything, significantly worse. There will also be others, certainly many here and no doubt, in the media too, who will almost celebrate Toronto’s demise and say that they told us so but I see that as wasted energy, personally. 

Toronto have probably got some odd-field things wrong, to date, but I think Rugby League as a collective has certainly got things wrong around Toronto wrong too. As a sport it’s always looked like we’ve never had a plan. We’ve had ideas of what we’d like the game to look like and to grow to but never a proper plan of how to get there and how to make it work and Toronto’s addition and subsequent rise has been no different either. This was one man’s idea. Nothing to do with The RFL, Super League or anyone else. They didn’t and still don’t have a plan on how they want expansion in the game here or elsewhere. If it wasn’t for a collective of wealthy people, would we still have Coventry, Skolars or Newcastle and would Catalans even still be around if it wasn’t for the last clear plan around expansion, the safety net they were given around Super League status? Quite possibly not. I’ve felt that the game has piggybacked onto the hard work in the North East rather than been the driving force behind it but that’s probably a different discussion.

That's because there isn't a plan for expansion and there never will be as long as it's dependent on being done within the domestic RFL structure.  They are beholden to the small time traditional clubs which whenever push has come to shove they have always looked after to the extent possible whatever the cost to the game's footprint, profile and image may have been.  Consequently the Pérez vision of North American teams playing in the existing RFL structure was fundamentally flawed and it's no surprise that the proposed New York club hasn't amounted to much as yet.

This entire exercise has shown that the likes of Toronto, London and New York mix in with that structure and its small time ways no better than oil mixes with water.  The place for teams in such cities is outside the RFL structure in a new built-for-purpose RL equivalent of Super Rugby and Pro14 which could provide the kind of vision, direction and support requisite to undertakings such as theirs.  Absent that RL in the northern hemisphere will remain a small regional sport steadily falling further behind other sports until (as John Kear suggested in an interview the other year could happen within 20 or so years) pro RL ceases to exist outside of Australia.

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New signing announced for Toronto

https://www.totalrl.com/wolfpack-to-sign-fax-forward/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=wolfpack-to-sign-fax-forward

Given that they have several English players lined up for next season, plus Vickers apparently leaving, I do wonder whether they are taking this opportunity to have a clear out and also redress the balance of the playing squad. There is almost zero chance of relegation this year so it is an opportunity to build some depth with a less visa-dependent squad for 2021.

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6 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

New signing announced for Toronto

https://www.totalrl.com/wolfpack-to-sign-fax-forward/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=wolfpack-to-sign-fax-forward

Given that they have several English players lined up for next season, plus Vickers apparently leaving, I do wonder whether they are taking this opportunity to have a clear out and also redress the balance of the playing squad. There is almost zero chance of relegation this year so it is an opportunity to build some depth with a less visa-dependent squad for 2021.

I think that may be a wise bit of insight.

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