The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

And when a club gets relegated when not finishing bottom?...

Yes 

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

And when a club gets relegated when not finishing bottom?...

“Doing a Widnes”?

 

[Hela Wigmen]

22 minutes ago, TBone said:

So you’ve forgetten the rift that it caused leading to the current agreement that SL will negotiate a new TV contract and pass down a few crumbs to those outside SL?

You’ve lost me. 

[CanadianRugger]

9 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

John Davidson is reporting some cannabis oil tycoon (though no billionaire) called Dustin Koffler could be the mystery buyer. Any of our Canadian cousins know anything about him?

Grandson of Murray Koffler, the founder of the Shopper's Drug Mart empire in Canada.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/philanthropist-murray-koffler-founder-of-shoppers-drug-mart-dead-at-93/wcm/62dac62c-2cfb-4c3e-ae7f-8484f54759e6/amp/

[Tommygilf]

12 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

 

Licence the expansion clubs , P and R the rest 

Hey you've finally come round! Now pls explain it for those who don't understand 

[Tommygilf]

12 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

And when a club gets relegated when not finishing bottom?...

They're the worst placed English team and its the English teams that want P/R to decide their Super league places. In any case its an unlikely scenario beyond the initial season as international expansion clubs by their very nature will be well resourced.

I have no major aversion to them rising through the leagues. But pragmatically the greatest benefit to the game is for them in Super League.

[Man of Kent]

4 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

Grandson of Murray Koffler, the founder of the Shopper's Drug Mart empire in Canada.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/philanthropist-murray-koffler-founder-of-shoppers-drug-mart-dead-at-93/wcm/62dac62c-2cfb-4c3e-ae7f-8484f54759e6/amp/

OK, he’s got a rich but dead gramps. Ta. There’s mixed reports about whether this guy is the buyer, I’ve since read.

Let’s say Toronto can be readmitted as long as they agree to pay a seven-figure bond and/or forego TV money, and continue paying travel costs. They would likely continue to be Super League whipping boys due to recruitment issues and lack of reserves/Academy. Is that still an attractive proposition to Toronto fans?

[Lowdesert]

It would be interesting to compare the Melbourne Storm model from inception.  I don't think they had any academy or reserves.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

OK, he’s got a rich but dead gramps. Ta. There’s mixed reports about whether this guy is the buyer, I’ve since read.

Let’s say Toronto can be readmitted as long as they agree to pay a seven-figure bond and/or forego TV money, and continue paying travel costs. They would likely continue to be Super League whipping boys due to recruitment issues and lack of reserves/Academy. Is that still an attractive proposition to Toronto fans?

From what I've read he was already one of the multiple investors in Toronto.

I think TV money is key here and several SL bosses are embarrassed by the scenario. 

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

What we've seen over the last 3/4 years hasn't pleased anybody 

Licence the expansion clubs , P and R the rest 

I agree with a lot of your proposals, but that is shear madness in my opinion, the thing about a league system is that it is about winning and losing points to position teams in an order of merit, in your system all the teams can win points to strive for the play offs and the ultimate prize, but for some teams it doesn't matter at all if they lose points no matter how much weight or how hard they jump on the trap door it remains firmly and tightly closed for them whilst another team stood on firm ground could get sucked in for not finishing bottom!

Your system is a complete recipe to be abused, what if one of the 'protected' teams decided to do a Saints of '19 and played weakened teams in fixtures as Saints did with London - twice, what if through that action of Saints - which they did nothing wrong - had resulted in one of the other bottom 4 being relegated do you honestly think that would have passed without mention or even criticism or maybe some ruling amendments? Saints action was legal definatley, but as the season panned out it proved to be anything but ethical especially to the teams competing with London to avoid relegation.

What is so good about 'jeopardy' and relegation is it makes the player's give their all especially in games deemed "4 pointers" take away the nessacity to win and it just doesn't matter if they lose, and that can effect other teams.

We have a situation in SL that it is regarded as being 2 divisions in one but that is only a thought process, in your system you are rubber stamping and making it official that we would have two divisions in one, madness.

Quote: "What we've seen over the last 3/4 years hasn't pleased anybody"

Speak for yourself I loved every minute of the 8's, being the elation and the euphoria, along with the disappointment and the despair, it was sport and competition that got the senses going, I would have it back in the blink of an eye.

 

[Harry Stottle]

35 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Hey you've finally come round! Now pls explain it for those who don't understand 

I have just explained it Tommy.

The other thing about these expansion clubs is they have approached us to join our system, not the other way round, and our teams have to suffer whilst they are protected, madness.

[Harry Stottle]

30 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

by their very nature will be well resourced.

Special  Salary Cap?

[Tommygilf]

29 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I have just explained it Tommy.

The other thing about these expansion clubs is they have approached us to join our system, not the other way round, and our teams have to suffer whilst they are protected, madness.

Its full of suppositions H that simply make no sense. In the years Catalan were protected whilst relegation took place they finished bottom only in their first year (unsurprising).

I suspect Gubby will state the obvious that nothing is being denied to English teams, in fact this system protects their position "as a whole game over here" just as you like it. A set number of English teams in the top flight decided by p/r. All whilst no promotion places are hogged by cashed up international sides in the lower divisions. This is quite literally the only way of ensuring no English side "suffers". They operate exactly as they do now (pandemic aside) and RL gains greater international exposure.

I have no problem with them rising up through the leagues. It doesn't really affect my team at all. 

[Tommygilf]

39 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Special  Salary Cap?

As long as they're funding the current salary cap they'll be outspending at least 2 clubs and possibly a couple more. 

[Rupert Prince]

54 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Special  Salary Cap?

The salary cap is irrelevant.  Being well resourced means having enough money not to go bankrupt.  

There is nothing wrong with being bottom.  Given that you are obviously living in the past... just consider this:  In them golden days of yore, there was a 30 team league, one division.  There was no promotion, no relegation.  Was is so terrible then that say Batley finished bottom?   Do you demand that the bottom team be relegated and replaced by Leigh Miners Welfare?  There has always been a bottom team, were the bottom teams just going through the motions?

But in those golden days players got a bit of extra money and a winning bonus.  Today relatively huge sums of investment are being spent and players are on significant salaries.  That's a lot of jeopardy.

Suppose Wakefield actually spend eye watering sums and build their mythical stadium.  Well done to them and their investors and their bankers.  But then they get relegated?  Well...?  What would happen then?    

Under the present system how can any even medium club plan and manage it's future.

There is no ladder to climb in RL, and the base of its pyramid is too narrow. The ladder which some want to lean against the wall is on shaky foundations.

P & R is a disaster for RL.  

[Man of Kent]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

It would be interesting to compare the Melbourne Storm model from inception.  I don't think they had any academy or reserves.

Melbourne always comes up in Toronto whataboutery debates. 

Take a look at their feeder system. They produce players - who make their debuts with the Storm - just not many Victorians.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

Melbourne always comes up in Toronto whataboutery debates. 

Take a look at their feeder system. They produce players - who make their debuts with the Storm - just not many Victorians.

Satellite academies could be a start then? Where? Wales is the obvious answer in terms of gap in the market but also Cumbria.

[Man of Kent]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Satellite academies could be a start then? Where? Wales is the obvious answer in terms of gap in the market but also Cumbria.

Wherever they think best. The onus is on them.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Man of Kent said:

Wherever they think best. The onus is on them.

Someone will kick up a fuss when they pitch up in West Yorkshire or Greater Manchester then. There ought to be some central direction.

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Someone will kick up a fuss when they pitch up in West Yorkshire or Greater Manchester then. There ought to be some central direction.

Don't see why it has to be central. As long as they have the money, they could set up an Academy in Rochdale (or wherever they plan to base themselves going forward), and do their own scouting all over the UK etc. Including rugby union clubs. 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

Don't see why it has to be central. As long as they have the money, they could set up an Academy in Rochdale (or wherever they plan to base themselves going forward), and do their own scouting all over the UK etc. Including rugby union clubs. 

Because as we know RL clubs tend not to scout very broadly (nor does the level of investment enable them to) and so it serves little purpose to set up an academy in an already saturated area with at least 2 other clubs (Salford and Leigh) who want to set one up as well. RL academies are relatively local affairs except for the top where even then its at best transpennine. All we'll have is another fairly big club going for juniors along the M62.

I agree the scouting could be and should be broader including RU clubs, but having a bit of clear territory to work with such as in Wales would make more sense imo. 

[Man of Kent]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Because as we know RL clubs tend not to scout very broadly (nor does the level of investment enable them to) and so it serves little purpose to set up an academy in an already saturated area with at least 2 other clubs (Salford and Leigh) who want to set one up as well. RL academies are relatively local affairs except for the top where even then its at best transpennine. All we'll have is another fairly big club going for juniors along the M62.

I agree the scouting could be and should be broader including RU clubs, but having a bit of clear territory to work with such as in Wales would make more sense imo. 

As long as they are spending their own money on development, I can't say I really care.  

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Man of Kent said:

As long as they are spending their own money on development, I can't say I really care.  

Someone will love a moan though won't they. And as a game if we can direct that funding towards an area we underfund (ie Wales or Cumbria) then we're all winners.

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Because as we know RL clubs tend not to scout very broadly (nor does the level of investment enable them to) and so it serves little purpose to set up an academy in an already saturated area with at least 2 other clubs (Salford and Leigh) who want to set one up as well. RL academies are relatively local affairs except for the top where even then its at best transpennine. All we'll have is another fairly big club going for juniors along the M62.

I agree the scouting could be and should be broader including RU clubs, but having a bit of clear territory to work with such as in Wales would make more sense imo. 

Scouting usually has ceiling these days of 15 years old, they then become aligned to their respective clubs albeit carry on at community level.

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Someone will love a moan though won't they. And as a game if we can direct that funding towards an area we underfund (ie Wales or Cumbria) then we're all winners.

Yep get our own house in order before venturing overseas.