The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Robin Evans]

4 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Every Yankees cap sold is one less possible Saints or Giants cap bought. It all adds up. Especially now that baseball caps have become ubiquitous, worn everywhere by everyone.

And admit it, who doesn't have half-a-dozen different caps hanging up somewhere?

Mine are mainly of the flat variety!!

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Every Yankees cap sold is one less possible Saints or Giants cap bought. It all adds up. Especially now that baseball caps have become ubiquitous, worn everywhere by everyone.

And admit it, who doesn't have half-a-dozen different caps hanging up somewhere?

We see the odd Yankees cap , and the occasional Chicago Bears wooly hat , that's it , so RL are losing about £40 a decade in Leigh , I'm really worried

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Robin Evans said:

Mine are mainly of the flat variety!!

Do they do NYY flat caps ?

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Every Yankees cap sold is one less possible Saints or Giants cap bought. It all adds up. Especially now that baseball caps have become ubiquitous, worn everywhere by everyone.

And admit it, who doesn't have half-a-dozen different caps hanging up somewhere?

I did have a Winfield Cup cap , but it disappeared after a late night trip to the local Romanian bar pre Xmas

[TIWIT]

Are UK sports fans more apt to buy shirts than hats to support their team?

[Robin Evans]

4 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Are UK sports fans more apt to buy shirts than hats to support their team?

Yes.....

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Are UK sports fans more apt to buy shirts than hats to support their team?

Yes , but they buy all-sorts of stuff 

[Snowys Backside]

29 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

We see the odd Yankees cap , and the occasional Chicago Bears wooly hat , that's it , so RL are losing about £40 a decade in Leigh , I'm really worried

Pretty sure I still have my 'I shot JR' cap from the 1980s

They were rife in Leigh when I was a kid 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

Pretty sure I still have my 'I shot JR' cap from the 1980s

They were rife in Leigh when I was a kid 

Did you ?

[Eddie]

12 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Are UK sports fans more apt to buy shirts than hats to support their team?

Definitely. 

[Quolls2020]

On 14/09/2020 at 08:07, Whippet13 said:

Yeah, it's contrived, but Wolf Grooming have been sponsors of TWP since 2018 so there is no "claiming" about it. Gotta say, I think that the prospective owners are running a pretty slick PR campaign by traditional SL/RFL standards. The game could probably a thing or two from them in that regard at least.

I think, not wishing to speak on anyone’s behalf, that the reference was to Wolf Grooming implying that they are also sponsors of the super league itself, they don’t appear to be, at least not yet.

[TIWIT]

Well if they did offer to sponsor SL that would certainly gain them a lot of support. Provided they pay up front of course. And the cheque clears.

[RP London]

17 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes , they dump old out of date stock into Europe , much like we had a shop in Ashton in Maker field full of old stock Aussie RL shirts 30 odd years ago 

It obviously works given the massive upsurge in Baseball in the UK and Europe ? ,

Its not out of date stock dumped in the UK and getting baseball into the uk and europe wasnt my point or the discussion i was having with TIWIT..

the Yankees are making good money from this branding and to them its all about the bottom line, and if they have a brand that is being sold worldwide then they are raking it in... clubs need revenue streams.. if we can get some more revenue streams we would be in a much better place. 

People will buy things because they are nice or because there is an association with the brand, the Yankees have built that NY branding up and are now exploiting the hell out of it. 

It is not about who is buying them instead either.. its not like a car... you can have more than one cap/shirt etc.. the point is that RL does not exploit these sorts of markets properly, the stash is rubbish for example.. we need to be better at all the ancillary stuff.. 

 

[ATLANTISMAN]

45 minutes ago, RP London said:

Its not out of date stock dumped in the UK and getting baseball into the uk and europe wasnt my point or the discussion i was having with TWIT..

the Yankees are making good money from this branding and to them its all about the bottom line, and if they have a brand that is being sold worldwide then they are raking it in... clubs need revenue streams.. if we can get some more revenue streams we would be in a much better place. 

People will buy things because they are nice or because there is an association with the brand, the Yankees have built that NY branding up and are now exploiting the hell out of it. 

It is not about who is buying them instead either.. its not like a car... you can have more than one cap/shirt etc.. the point is that RL does not exploit these sorts of markets properly, the stash is rubbish for example.. we need to be better at all the ancillary stuff.. 

 

Your are correct the extras ALL add up.

On October 1st we launch a shop on one of our radio stations deals on Mobile/Broadband/Electricity/Gas/Tickets/Holidays/Home wine delivery/Music/Merchandise etc the revenue we estimate will cover 50% of our running costs next year (Which are quite considerable) all these extras add up.

P 

 

[yipyee]

14 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

So UK RL clubs a massively missing out due to NYY ' gear ' ?

Yes because they are taking peoples money who will then not buy a 'insert small time RL club' merchandise,

But i guess this is why RL will keep shrinking when the fans and leadership are idiots and do not look to raise funds from every avenue

[yipyee]

13 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

We see the odd Yankees cap , and the occasional Chicago Bears wooly hat , that's it , so RL are losing about £40 a decade in Leigh , I'm really worried

40 quid a decade haha which decade??

I would be more worried about leigh not getting any central funding in the next deal and then with no real merchandise sales leigh will continue the slide to oblivion.

 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, RP London said:

Its not out of date stock dumped in the UK and getting baseball into the uk and europe wasnt my point or the discussion i was having with TWIT..

the Yankees are making good money from this branding and to them its all about the bottom line, and if they have a brand that is being sold worldwide then they are raking it in... clubs need revenue streams.. if we can get some more revenue streams we would be in a much better place. 

People will buy things because they are nice or because there is an association with the brand, the Yankees have built that NY branding up and are now exploiting the hell out of it. 

It is not about who is buying them instead either.. its not like a car... you can have more than one cap/shirt etc.. the point is that RL does not exploit these sorts of markets properly, the stash is rubbish for example.. we need to be better at all the ancillary stuff.. 

 

Whilst I largely agree with your point mate, I'm not sure the continued comparisons to US sport is useful. Some of the branding in US sport transcends sport and is often driven by celebrity culture as much as sporting culture. 

It wouldn't be unusual for a major a-list celebrities to be wearing some of the merchandise from US sports and as we know US culture is massive in the UK and Australia. You wouldn't see Man Utd's logo being worn by an a-list celeb on a night out, it'd be a bit naff. It's a different world.

I think we need to have realistic aims, so we aren't wasting time chasing things that will never really add value. As a sport we need to focus on the basics in this area around the international teams - there is some very good stuff at club level, but I'm not sure it is ever going to go mainstream.

[RP London]

41 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Whilst I largely agree with your point mate, I'm not sure the continued comparisons to US sport is useful. Some of the branding in US sport transcends sport and is often driven by celebrity culture as much as sporting culture. 

It wouldn't be unusual for a major a-list celebrities to be wearing some of the merchandise from US sports and as we know US culture is massive in the UK and Australia. You wouldn't see Man Utd's logo being worn by an a-list celeb on a night out, it'd be a bit naff. It's a different world.

I think we need to have realistic aims, so we aren't wasting time chasing things that will never really add value. As a sport we need to focus on the basics in this area around the international teams - there is some very good stuff at club level, but I'm not sure it is ever going to go mainstream.

I dont disagree with much of what you say... my larger point is that there is money to be made that isnt the gate and we dont make enough of that.. some of that is also down to being more proactive with sponsors to show how what we can offer will really help their sales rather than just taking their money... booze used to do it by also being the supplier to the bars etc (obviously not something we can do now)... 

US to UK is a difficult to gauge comparison, yes. The wider point on the Yankees was that you wouldnt necessarily know what you were wearing or care but that it is what people are buying, because also the caps themselves are good. A nice logo (not a club badge necessarily) can work if done nicely and people may just buy it because it looks nice (or yes the right celeb wore it) but we never seem to get anything right.. look at the ENG cap with the prancing lion (puma logo) on the RLWC2021 merchandise store for a good example... if your going to come up with a logo/design they come up with something a bit naff.. if that was done in a good way (im not a designer so "do it in a good way" is the best you're getting from me) then you could find it spreads wider than just world cup circles. 

The company i own have a few brands each specifically aimed at different markets... what the hell is half our stuff actually aimed at? from quality and design sometimes i think its simply designed for the people that will always put their hands in their pockets no matter what you offer. 

oh and some MUGS!!!

[TIWIT]

24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Whilst I largely agree with your point mate, I'm not sure the continued comparisons to US sport is useful. Some of the branding in US sport transcends sport and is often driven by celebrity culture as much as sporting culture. 

It wouldn't be unusual for a major a-list celebrities to be wearing some of the merchandise from US sports and as we know US culture is massive in the UK and Australia. You wouldn't see Man Utd's logo being worn by an a-list celeb on a night out, it'd be a bit naff. It's a different world.

I think we need to have realistic aims, so we aren't wasting time chasing things that will never really add value. As a sport we need to focus on the basics in this area around the international teams - there is some very good stuff at club level, but I'm not sure it is ever going to go mainstream.

Good points.

Every sports team in Toronto - Leafs, Jays, Raptors, TFC, even TWP - maintains their own retail store selling team merchandise. Which is also sold at major retail chains across the nation. There is even a chain of stores that sells nothing but branded baseball caps (and all other sports as well of course). All so people can identify with and be identified as part of 'Jays/Leafs/Raptors' nation. Or Yankees Nation, or Red Sox Nation, or Cowboys Nation, etc.

Its not all positive either. Wearing the black and silver of the Oakland Raiders brought about a very negative connotation. It will be interesting to see if this carries on now that they are no more.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, RP London said:

I dont disagree with much of what you say... my larger point is that there is money to be made that isnt the gate and we dont make enough of that.. some of that is also down to being more proactive with sponsors to show how what we can offer will really help their sales rather than just taking their money... booze used to do it by also being the supplier to the bars etc (obviously not something we can do now)... 

US to UK is a difficult to gauge comparison, yes. The wider point on the Yankees was that no one would know what they were wearing but that it is what people are buying, because also the caps themselves are good. A nice logo (not a club badge necessarily) can work if done nicely and people may just buy it because it looks nice (or yes the right celeb wore it) but we never seem to get anything right.. look at the ENG cap with the prancing lion (puma logo) on the RLWC2021 merchandise store for a good example... if your going to come up with a logo/design they come up with something a bit naff.. if that was done in a good way (im not a designer so thats the best your getting from me) then you could find it spreads wider than just world cup circles. 

As a company we do have a few brands each aimed at different markets... what the hell is half our stuff actually aimed at? from quality and design sometimes i think its simply designed for the people that will always put their hands in their pockets no matter what you offer. 

oh and some MUGS!!!

The international stuff is just safe stuff. T-shirts and hoodies, but the root issue here is not enough internationals to build a brand - so that one is more sporting really.

Look at the club shops, there is some great stuff, I like much of Wire's gear and I've just had a look at Saints' they have some great stuff, ruined by the logo. It's never really going to go mainstream though, no matter how much Jonny Vegas wears it

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The international stuff is just safe stuff. T-shirts and hoodies, but the root issue here is not enough internationals to build a brand - so that one is more sporting really.

Look at the club shops, there is some great stuff, I like much of Wire's gear and I've just had a look at Saints' they have some great stuff, ruined by the logo. It's never really going to go mainstream though, no matter how much Jonny Vegas wears it

Yes i get the point on the internationals and there is a bit of a chicken and egg as with the TV and everything (why are we still talking like this though... the internationals and international profile is what they should be building any sort of future planning on ffs!!).. but this all comes back to the original point I made.. IF that was done right with a nice "logo" on it then it just becomes a nice cap.. no one cares who it is or what it signifies its jut a nice cap and retail outlets may stock it because its nice and they will sell it (they dont give a toss who it is or what its for [as long as it isnt going to cause them bad publicity down the line.. ie a kkk cap or something daft]).. the cut through to the main stream is where the extra untapped money is (not on the scale of the Yankees but still its money for frankly no more work).. 

Some of the stuff in the club shops is nice, totally agree and some clubs are doing it really well but some are not.. but again its not just about game wear its the other ancillary stuff you can pick up that you can wear on an "everyday" basis.. where the badge shouldnt be huge but maybe a nice classy simple "logo" would look nice... stuff that cuts through away from just your store.. 

For me its where it goes back to something like Wolf Grooming, by association to RL it may bring in some sales from the RL fans who buy it because its an RL associated brand (great for the brand, extra sales), but its a brand that doesnt shout "i'm a rugby league club" and so it can and hopefully will grow outside of the RL sphere too, but it means that people from outside the sport would be inadvertently pumping money into the game. 

I'd just like us to think a bit more about aiming things at not just the same fans who will pay their money year on year no matter what.. there is so much more to aim at.

[Tommygilf]

24 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Good points.

Every sports team in Toronto - Leafs, Jays, Raptors, TFC, even TWP - maintains their own retail store selling team merchandise. Which is also sold at major retail chains across the nation. There is even a chain of stores that sells nothing but branded baseball caps (and all other sports as well of course). All so people can identify with and be identified as part of 'Jays/Leafs/Raptors' nation. Or Yankees Nation, or Red Sox Nation, or Cowboys Nation, etc.

Its not all positive either. Wearing the black and silver of the Oakland Raiders brought about a very negative connotation. It will be interesting to see if this carries on now that they are no more.

What was up with Oakland?

[Dave T]

20 minutes ago, RP London said:

Yes i get the point on the internationals and there is a bit of a chicken and egg as with the TV and everything (why are we still talking like this though... the internationals and international profile is what they should be building any sort of future planning on ffs!!).. but this all comes back to the original point I made.. IF that was done right with a nice "logo" on it then it just becomes a nice cap.. no one cares who it is or what it signifies its jut a nice cap and retail outlets may stock it because its nice and they will sell it (they dont give a toss who it is or what its for [as long as it isnt going to cause them bad publicity down the line.. ie a kkk cap or something daft]).. the cut through to the main stream is where the extra untapped money is (not on the scale of the Yankees but still its money for frankly no more work).. 

Some of the stuff in the club shops is nice, totally agree and some clubs are doing it really well but some are not.. but again its not just about game wear its the other ancillary stuff you can pick up that you can wear on an "everyday" basis.. where the badge shouldnt be huge but maybe a nice classy simple "logo" would look nice... stuff that cuts through away from just your store.. 

For me its where it goes back to something like Wolf Grooming, by association to RL it may bring in some sales from the RL fans who buy it because its an RL associated brand (great for the brand, extra sales), but its a brand that doesnt shout "i'm a rugby league club" and so it can and hopefully will grow outside of the RL sphere too, but it means that people from outside the sport would be inadvertently pumping money into the game. 

I'd just like us to think a bit more about aiming things at not just the same fans who will pay their money year on year no matter what.. there is so much more to aim at.

Yeah, I get what you are saying, I'm just not so sure I see any great benefits up for grabs here. I'm not sure I see Warrington making much money from non-Wire or non-RL fans. Where I do see the opportunities are things like diversifying the range to attract those people who don't normally buy stuff - i.e. me - I get a hoodie every now and again and throw it on to go to the gym or the shops at night. Getting money out of me, or my family and other people like me who are engaged but don't spend as much as I could are the target market imho. 

The other main opportunity I do see (and we are at risk of going way off topic) is through our online presence - SL's website is rubbish, I never visit, but there should be an aggregated ticket site, as well as online retail. This is maybe where clubs could target the more mainstream or casual sports fan through the leisurewear stuff, even more generic SL branded gear. Things like the Oddballs stuff with SL branding could go down well - the chunky hats, underwear etc. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

I once read somewhere that over 70% of English football/rugby fans wear their team shirt on holidays

P 

[Robin Evans]

16 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Do they do NYY flat caps ?

Yes.... but the N and the Y are made of gaffer tape and stuck on top.....

We do classy very well here in Rovrum