The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[TIWIT]

39 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Before he makes any demands, what about paying TW's Creditors and Players first.

Why don't you? Until and unless LiVolsi is confirmed as TWP's new owner he has no obigation to pay anyone anything.

[Kayakman]

4 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

What’s happens to them now? What if they enter the Championship and get promoted again? Will SL let them back in? What about Ottawa? 
 

The worst thing that could happen now though is if SL stays as 11 clubs next year. We’re going backwards, always 1 step forward 2 steps back with this sport

Someone else said it...the biggest own try in the history of Rugby League...not good.

[Kayakman]

2 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

When you compare RL to sports like cricket, F1, RU, football it's all about money, power and influence. RL gave up any hope of being a major player in UK sports the day the split happened in 1895. No amount of strategic plans, or creative marketing, or baseball caps will ever compare to the huge swathes of influence these sports hold over the establishment classes. You only have to look at Lords on members day, or the gridwalk during a grand prix, or Twickenham for an England game. Rugby Leagues status as a working class sport is one of it's great charms but also it's biggest obstacle to success.

And this was that real one chance, that one golden opportunity which comes along for a fleeting moment in a lifetime, to change all of that.

They are blowing it.  Sad.

[Kayakman]

9 minutes ago, SL17 said:

It’s a worry for the club surely? If this new fellas deal is set on SL only. 

If they vote against it looks like it is done...so be it, although I, and many others, would go Championship or League 1games...possibly if Ottawa are in then some new owner could try for a League 1 entry...that is magic fairy dust though.

The Pack, as we know it, would be finished if not reallowed and Sky money cut provided.  I'll be waiting for the official word though.

[Kayakman]

6 minutes ago, SL17 said:

You where told, you would become SL’s problem. Now you understand the obstacle of the sport.

Yes.   The current structure seems somewhat backwards and disjointed.  All of RL in the UK has a problem with mixed messaging and this creates confusion and chaos.  There is a clear power differential (moving in opposite directions sometimes which negates any forward movement and can actually result in reverse movement) between the RFL and SL.   Its an oddity for sure.

I fear for the future of the game in England.

[Omott91]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I did not get any further than this paragraph, could I please remind you that this is the  British Rugby League, what you are suggesting is like the party gatecrasher who wants to enter the house and take over the joint, you asked to be allowed to attend so  just come in and accept the fare on offer, listen the music the host wants to play or just Cough Off elsewhere, simple.

But it's also their responsibility to do what's best for the sport and make it as appealing as possible to the most amount of people, not ignore proposals like the one you responded to. Nothing would change theoretically except we would have great Canadian and French derbies.

  I also think that for the sport to grow the perception by British fans and some administration that the game is ''theirs'' or ''our'' needs to be dropped.  

[TIWIT]

14 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

But it's also their responsibility to do what's best for the sport and make it as appealing as possible to the most amount of people, not ignore proposals like the one you responded to. Nothing would change theoretically except we would have great Canadian and French derbies.

  I also think that for the sport to grow the perception by British fans and some administration that the game is ''theirs'' or ''our'' needs to be dropped.  

Owners of NAm sports often refer to themselves as caretakers of the game, with the intention of leaving the sport in better shape than it was when they first entered it. (And of course making lots of money along the way.) But 'for the good of the game' is a phrase you often hear.

I dont think most SL owners think this way and thats why a great game is dying a slow death. Isn't it a pity.

 

[TIWIT]

1 hour ago, Quolls2020 said:

Didn’t Ottawa buy an existing rugby club, therefore their entry conditions would/will be different?

weren't some Of the very unfair conditions imposed on Toronto actually Put forward by themselves as an incentive for admission?

isnt having an international “domestic” competition incredibly risky now and in the future when countries are likely to close borders at the first “sniff” of an Infectious disease ..?

super rugby is all but over and looks far more likely to split and proceed as domestic or regional comps.

is Toronto really in a position to demand anything? Well the potential new boss seems to be demanding, The other officials Seem to be begging.

will new ownership attract a NA TV deal when the old did not?
 

can they be competitive when their best players have left?
 

can they be financially viable (short or long term)?

should they Be required to be competitive, ie subject to relegation.

should they be allowed back in at all?

In SL

in the championship?

Back to the bottom.

deferred for a year to allow them to get reorganised (or is that organised)

 

 

 

 

TWP are SL or nothing.

Without TWP Ottawa won't last more than a couple of years at best. Minor-league sport like the 67s or CPL team but with a very high overhead and no clear path to anywhere. Together the 2 teams could have worked to build something. Instead failure breeds failure.

[frank]

A lot of these posts are speculation and nothing else.

Best to wait for the  official  announcement.

 

[TIWIT]

13 minutes ago, frank said:

A lot of these posts are speculation and nothing else.

Best to wait for the  official  announcement.

 

Be a pretty dead place then. This is a lot more fun.

[yipyee]

9 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

When you compare RL to sports like cricket, F1, RU, football it's all about money, power and influence. RL gave up any hope of being a major player in UK sports the day the split happened in 1895. No amount of strategic plans, or creative marketing, or baseball caps will ever compare to the huge swathes of influence these sports hold over the establishment classes. You only have to look at Lords on members day, or the gridwalk during a grand prix, or Twickenham for an England game. Rugby Leagues status as a working class sport is one of it's great charms but also it's biggest obstacle to success.

And theres the small time thinking thats holding us back right there!!

RL has had billionaire and millionaires involved and we have pushed them all away, RL needs to stop thinking about small towns and start to strategically grow.

We had a chance with sky but have allowed them to push us to the side with our needy demands, Koukash summarised this at the last round of negotiations and was pushed out of the sport.

RL will always be small time while as whelan put it to Mike Ashley 'there is a northern club and your not in it' 

Small time sport for small time people im afraid and its saddening

[Dave T]

This narrative that Toronto is the saviour of the game here and a no brainer offering untold riches to the game is bizarre. 

It just isn't true, no matter how people spin it. 

It may be exciting, and worth a punt if you can mitigate the risk, but Canada just isn't a natural bedfellows for SL. 

[yipyee]

8 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I did not get any further than this paragraph, could I please remind you that this is the  British Rugby League, what you are suggesting is like the party gatecrasher who wants to enter the house and take over the joint, you asked to be allowed to attend so  just come in and accept the fare on offer, listen the music the host wants to play or just Cough Off elsewhere, simple.

British rugby league, its never been british RL WAKE UP!

[RP London]

15 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I haven't said the clubs are perfect , but they do what they can to sell to the customers they have , they could spend plenty more and be left with plenty on the shelves , in what way would that help the clubs ? 

I will pm you with something later that I suggested to the lower tier clubs about a decade ago on this very subject 

I’ll respond to the pm as a pm but I’m not saying they need to buy more stuff in even, there are loads of ways of doing this sort of thing without it being a drain on you.. it’s how, in my industry, the likes of swizels matlow , golden casket and vimto grow.. they aren’t making the extras they licence out with little to no risk.. And that’s just one example of what they can do!
you could do none season specific stuff so you have more time to sell it, another example.

its also not just about selling to the customers they have its about finding new customers with new products that’s business 101.. new audiences. You can’t just keep flogging to the same people and expect sales to grow...

But I’ve said all this and you seem to want to ignore it

[Man of Kent]

32 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This narrative that Toronto is the saviour of the game here and a no brainer offering untold riches to the game is bizarre. 

It just isn't true, no matter how people spin it. 

It may be exciting, and worth a punt if you can mitigate the risk, but Canada just isn't a natural bedfellows for SL. 

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” 

[Davo5]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” 

Nah,nobody will ever believe your crowd counts.

[Rupert Prince]

6 hours ago, TIWIT said:

Owners of NAm sports often refer to themselves as caretakers of the game, with the intention of leaving the sport in better shape than it was when they first entered it. (And of course making lots of money along the way.) But 'for the good of the game' is a phrase you often hear.

I dont think most SL owners think this way and thats why a great game is dying a slow death. Isn't it a pity.

I don't see where you get all that.   I don't see RL owners being in the game to make money.

And all I see with Kyakman is running round in circles.

TWP did not have enough funding.  Despite its owners claims of wealth he ran out of money.  That's not the fault of SL.  It will take a lot a lot of money to create a viable club from scratch.  RL itself is strapped for cash, NRL are sniffing at its best players. It can't give away money itself.

You can moan all you like, but without eyewatering sums of money, real money this time, you cannot invent a new viable top team. 

Everyone needs to worry about RL here and really... REALLY ... look hard at our own structure.  Can we afford a 10 team competition never mind 11 or 12?

If someone in Canada has money and vision they should expand it in their own domestic market first, and then create a team to qualify for first grade. And one thing the TWP seem to forget is the weather!  Playing through half the season in iced up conditions seems absurd.

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

This narrative that Toronto is the saviour of the game here and a no brainer offering untold riches to the game is bizarre. 

It just isn't true, no matter how people spin it. 

It may be exciting, and worth a punt if you can mitigate the risk, but Canada just isn't a natural bedfellows for SL. 

To be fair that narrative hasn't really been prevalent since Parky's banishment.

[Dave T]

28 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” 

When it was questioned as a speculative attempt at expansion previously people were told that it is being fully funded and costs SLE nowt (a key reason I am on board), now that is being used as a reason to bash SL clubs as insular, backwards and any other criticisms you want to throw. 

So the very thing that was used as a selling point is being used to bash SL. 

At times I really feel like we are dealing with our government with the truth-twisting and 'evolving' narrative! 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

To be fair that narrative hasn't really been prevalent since Parky's banishment.

Just this week mate I have seen various soundbites about how having TWP in SL are a no brainer and they clearly add value and we can benefit from huge NA investments. 

[gingerjon]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This narrative that Toronto is the saviour of the game here and a no brainer offering untold riches to the game is bizarre. 

It is bizarre and it is wrong.

The extreme counter narrative that unless you were born in, and of, a rugby league town you must act like a supplicant to the true keepers of the game at all times, is also wrong.

But we are where we are.

The truth, as I see it, is that Toronto is not a gateway to any significant increased income for the game as a whole. Toronto should also honour all their commitments to their players before any expectation of a return to Super League. But, beyond that, there is no need to put any barriers to their participation that aren't there for other teams.

[gingerjon]

16 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Just this week mate I have seen various soundbites about how having TWP in SL are a no brainer and they clearly add value and we can benefit from huge NA investments. 

I said elsewhere that we have a very, very shallow player pool.

It's a deep, vast ocean compared to our journalism and commentariat pool.

[tuutaisrambo]

Do TWP have inside info on when this pandemic is ending cos regardless of your opinion of them or expansion, I just don't see how a team from Canada can operate in SL while all these restrictions are in place all over the world?

If it is indeed Covid that essentially made them go bust and incapable of operating anymore......... then how can they be allowed to rejoin until the pandemic is over.

SL are making a decision on their re entry at the start of the second surge of the virus in the UK.  
Most of the Rugby League Heartlands will be in lockdown with curfews next week........ it's madness.

The cynic in me think they will let them in just so everyone gets paid then let the government kick them out if the restrictions don't ease.

[tuutaisrambo]

38 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I said elsewhere that we have a very, very shallow player pool.

It's a deep, vast ocean compared to our journalism and commentariat pool.

If you got to travel to Toronto for your job you'd be in favour too. Makes a nice change from wigan.

Imagine if a team from the Bahamas applied for SL 

[tuutaisrambo]

1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

I don't see where you get all that.   I don't see RL owners being in the game to make money.

And all I see with Kyakman is running round in circles.

TWP did not have enough funding.  Despite its owners claims of wealth he ran out of money.  That's not the fault of SL.  It will take a lot a lot of money to create a viable club from scratch.  RL itself is strapped for cash, NRL are sniffing at its best players. It can't give away money itself.

You can moan all you like, but without eyewatering sums of money, real money this time, you cannot invent a new viable top team. 

Everyone needs to worry about RL here and really... REALLY ... look hard at our own structure.  Can we afford a 10 team competition never mind 11 or 12?

If someone in Canada has money and vision they should expand it in their own domestic market first, and then create a team to qualify for first grade. And one thing the TWP seem to forget is the weather!  Playing through half the season in iced up conditions seems absurd.

You are just being negative and holding the game back 

[Insert insult about flat caps and meme about local game for local people here]

The whole thing is mad and was originally let in by the RFL cos it seemed too good to be true.

If TWP are now wanting Central funding then they are offering less than before.......in a global pandemic.....with flight restrictions everywhere......madness.