Harry Stottle Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Places in a league should always be decided by a majority in a committee. Good try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, Blind side johnny said: Yes, and the discussion is about strategic growth. Do you see my point? Not entirely sure I do. Durham had to fight for years to become a major county. There was no desire for them to be so. Certainly the TCCB had no specific interest that I'm aware of. They then, years later, fell into an absolute elephant trap set by the now ECB who were starting to make counties bid to host test matches and other internationals - which then backfired when Durham overbid, were awarded some dud games which then drew very low crowds. And now cricket is 'expanding' by reducing further the number of places that host top level matches and Durham won't be one of them. (This may have been your point all along. You clever fiend.) Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, Harry Stottle said: Good try. I'm not the one who's getting all excited by the 2021 set-up being decided by a vote. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Dave T said: The problem with the approach that the RFL took is by not getting buy in up front from SL and agreeing a plan for their entry into SL - it was clear from Day 1 that TWP were looking to be aggressive and try to get to the top tier. I think they buried their head in the sand a little. Obviously some things changed during the period too, so I may be being a bit harsh, but ultimately they seemed to only go for the right amount of buy-in they needed for each small step, rather than a higher level approach. That seems to be coming back t bite them on the ass. By the same token you could also argue that SLE ignored the inevitable.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, gingerjon said: I'm not the one who's getting all excited by the 2021 set-up being decided by a vote. Well should it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: Well should it? I guess I'm a purist, Harry, but I weep salt tears of genuine teariness, whenever any issue isn't decided on the pitch. Genuinely. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 minute ago, gingerjon said: I guess I'm a purist, Harry, but I weep salt tears of genuine teariness, whenever any issue isn't decided on the pitch. Genuinely. P&R? Should that remain, it seens from your answer you would be against protecting any club from relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: P&R? Should that remain, it seens from your answer you would be against protecting any club from relegation. Sadly, I have to agree with you. We can only allocate places in divisions based on a majority vote by the pre-existing members of that division. It's just how it has to be. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 38 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said: Do you recall TWP's original business plan? They wrote it, not the RFL; it formed the basis of their acceptance into the leagues. You now seem to be complaining that it was so unfair. I repeat - it was THEIR business plan. One that did not include Covid. Can't ignore that no matter how hard some try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 36 minutes ago, gingerjon said: They got thoroughly stiffed by the ECB in ways the RFL could only dream of doing. 24 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said: Yes, and the discussion is about strategic growth. Do you see my point? I am now interested in this, but I suppose I should do my own research instead of taking this thread too far away from the point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Dave T said: Setting up new sports clubs, sometimes in virgin territory is absolutely relevant to RL and the discussions around expansion. Setting up a full competition in a new country is very different to trying to run teams in the same competition thousands of miles apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 25 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said: Timing is the historical issue though Dave if you recall what was going on between the RFL and the SL clubs when Toronto were bidding for a place in RL. To get buy-in from SLE at that point would have been impossible. However, the votes taking place were for clubs of those divisions IIRC. If it is such a good idea, and a no-brainer then get the SL clubs on board at that point too, because this isn't something that was going to take 20 years or so, TWP becoming part of the furniture and then applying for SL. What is happening now was entirely predictable. I agree with your point on the politics, but that's life, those politics were almost ignored as they were a bit difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIWIT Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 25 minutes ago, Big Picture said: The KHL and the major North American leagues all manage different time zones without issue. The latter all cover three time zones and the former spans ten . Those leagues have shared priorities though. You can't compare time zones to the traffic on the M62! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 26 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: By the same token you could also argue that SLE ignored the inevitable.... Absolutely right, nobody is getting credit here, because for all the good things that all parties have done, they have all failed with some basics around strategic planning and governance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: Setting up a full competition in a new country is very different to trying to run teams in the same competition thousands of miles apart The differences were acknowledged by all discussing this. But by posting one-liners it is disrupting the discussion and debate and simplifying it to a level that nobody else is at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 38 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Places in a league should always be decided by a majority in a committee. Seems we all agree on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 35 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Should only be on the field of play, Tommy. You've literally just advocated for another team to be voted out despite them having won the championship league leaders 2 years running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moove Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, TIWIT said: You can't compare time zones to the traffic on the M62! In fairness, crossing over into Yorkshire is a lot like a different timezone, just that it's about 50 years backwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dave T said: The differences were acknowledged by all discussing this. But by posting one-liners it is disrupting the discussion and debate and simplifying it to a level that nobody else is at. Or people are complicating it for no good reason As I said , as venues have sprung up , so have the teams , no doubt the spread across the ' States ' was the same , fortunately Basketball , ice hockey required indoor arena's , which are also the right size for pop concerts and the like , these have been built in most cities and many large towns over the last 4/5 decades , and those that have built them need tenants , hence one of the reason those 2 sports have spread as they have , not just in the UK , but Europe as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: You've literally just advocated for another team to be voted out despite them having won the championship league leaders 2 years running? League leaders aren't the champions in RL , haven't you noticed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 minute ago, GUBRATS said: League leaders aren't the champions in RL , haven't you noticed ? Best team over two years and won the grand final. Doesn't really make a material difference to the point I was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Moove said: In fairness, crossing over into Yorkshire is a lot like a different timezone, just that it's about 50 years backwards Funny that , on my hols I've just read one of Bill Brysons early works , he loves the place , and I'd guess he's been to more places than you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 35 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Sadly, I have to agree with you. We can only allocate places in divisions based on a majority vote by the pre-existing members of that division. It's just how it has to be. I think its close to teasing now sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Just now, Tommygilf said: Best team over two years and won the grand final. Doesn't really make a material difference to the point I was making. Yes , they won the right to go to SL , and now are unable to even put a team together to play there , sort of puts everything into perspective , they have a 100% record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 49 minutes ago, Big Picture said: The KHL and the major North American leagues all manage different time zones without issue. The latter all cover three time zones and the former spans ten . Those leagues have shared priorities though. To play a slight devil's advocate, there's a bit of a difference running an ice hockey league when one of your expansions is into *Finland* versus running a rugby league league and expanding into Canada. The equivalent, and I'd be intrigued if there is one, would be as if the KHL's expansion was to Palermo. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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