The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[TIWIT]

8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

First , you won't get ' top flight ' , and as much as they are good athletes they are trained for 5/6 second sprints , positioning both in attack and defence would need a few years work to get them to any sort of decent level 

They aren't suitable 

 

Beg to differ. Like auto racing, NFL needs to be seen live to appreciate the speed and sheer brutality of the sport.

But as I said, I'd love to see a good one Or two give it a try. Maybe they could let the two of us stand on the sideline and watch.

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

First , you won't get ' top flight ' , and as much as they are good athletes they are trained for 5/6 second sprints , positioning both in attack and defence would need a few years work to get them to any sort of decent level 

They aren't suitable 

 

I honestly think people understand the amount of time in playing hours it gets to be of a professional standard.

Which is why something x-league needs to be pushed as an activity in developing nations when these short leagues are not playing.

Just to drive up the amount of time a player has in a Rugby League style environment.

 

 

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Thats a strange assertion. 

The NFL has Laurent Duverny-Tardiff a qualified doctor with a masters in surgery. 

RL had Gareth Hock. 

And Duverny-Tardiff is Canadian.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Beg to differ. Like auto racing, NFL needs to be seen live to appreciate the speed and sheer brutality of the sport.

But as I said, I'd love to see a good one Or two give it a try. Maybe they could let the two of us stand on the sideline and watch.

But what you are ' wishing ' for isn't going to happen , so it's like me wanting to get onto ' Love Island ' , not happening , is it 

[Kayakman]

Lets face facts...TWP has two young guys coming in but it won't be enough unless we have a real good streak of no injuries which probably won't happen.  We need to sign a couple of Top Flight Canadian Sevens players and make them a work in progress. They would not count on the cap for this year and, unlike many others on here, I believe some could make a quick transition to  an acceptable standard...but isn't there a quota on players from overseas (Canadians count?) that means we can't do this?

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

8 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

Beg to differ. Like auto racing, NFL needs to be seen live to appreciate the speed and sheer brutality of the sport.

But as I said, I'd love to see a good one Or two give it a try. Maybe they could let the two of us stand on the sideline and watch.

I don't think anyone doubts the physical attributes.  But that could equal be said of bodybuilding, boxing or gymnastics.  

Its just not the same kind of sportsman.  

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

3 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Lets face facts...TWP has two young guys coming in but it won't be enough unless we have a real good streak of no injuries which probably won't happen.  We need to sign a couple of Top Flight Canadian Sevens players and make them a work in progress. They would not count on the cap for this year and, unlike many others on here, I believe some could make a quick transition to  an acceptable standard...but isn't there a quota on players from overseas (Canadians count?) that means we can't do this?

Look at your international team and forget sevens.   Sevens players will get destroyed in Rugby League.

[Kayakman]

1 minute ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

Look at your international team and forget sevens.   Sevens players will get destroyed in Rugby League.

A very good idea but I think that rule holds us back.

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

1 minute ago, Kayakman said:

A very good idea but I think that rule holds us back.

That rule needs to be looked at if you can't develop domestic talent.

 

[TIWIT]

9 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

Look at your international team and forget sevens.   Sevens players will get destroyed in Rugby League.

Maybe Kman means the Women's 7s. They're pretty good.

[TIWIT]

14 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

I don't think anyone doubts the physical attributes.  But that could equal be said of bodybuilding, boxing or gymnastics.  

Its just not the same kind of sportsman.  

I do sometimes wonder because most Brits just see the game on TV - 10 seconds of action, 45 seconds of guys standing about, repeat for 3+ hours.

It seems easy on TV. It's not. It is a brutal, vicious game. Most pro football players can barely get out of bed the next day, they are that beat up. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

2 hours ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

I thought they had dedicated roles and a coach with a play book.

Which is why someone like Johnny Manziel never made the move over from college football.

 

Defences don’t work like that though - it’s all about analysis, pattern recognition and quick solutions vs. the attacking play. Even structured attacks are often running options rather than fixed routes - not a million miles away from League with pre-planned sets with less adaptation early on and option plays at the back end 

 

I think the real transition issue is more about aerobic capacity, and core ball skills. It’s bad enough with Union players who don’t hold the ball properly because not taught grip in school, let alone catch and pass efficiency under pressure. Would be even worse with gridiron-raised players 

[Kayakman]

19 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

That rule needs to be looked at if you can't develop domestic talent.

 

That is what I have been trying to tell you for a long time...you are finally coming around.  The rule needs to be changed: that is what I have been saying for 2 years!

[Dave T]

Canadians are not quota players for TWP. 

I clarified this last week, people are conveniently forgetting it again this week. Fake news. 

[Kayakman]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Canadians are not quota players for TWP. 

I clarified this last week, people are conveniently forgetting it again this week. Fake news. 

You may be only partly correct on this Dave.....please look into why Rhys Jacks had to be let go...it had something to do with that rule.

I still don't fully understand the whole thing.

[GUBRATS]

37 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

I do sometimes wonder because most Brits just see the game on TV - 10 seconds of action, 45 seconds of guys standing about, repeat for 3+ hours.

It seems easy on TV. It's not. It is a brutal, vicious game. Most pro football players can barely get out of bed the next day, they are that beat up. 

But that is how it is , they do more running celebrating than actual playing 

Don't tell me the big guys in the defensive and attacking lines can't get out of bed , looking at the size of them they must spend most of their lives there , at least when they aren't eating 

Interesting that around 60 odd % end up bankrupt within a couple of years retirement 

[GUBRATS]

44 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Defences don’t work like that though - it’s all about analysis, pattern recognition and quick solutions vs. the attacking play. Even structured attacks are often running options rather than fixed routes - not a million miles away from League with pre-planned sets with less adaptation early on and option plays at the back end 

 

I think the real transition issue is more about aerobic capacity, and core ball skills. It’s bad enough with Union players who don’t hold the ball properly because not taught grip in school, let alone catch and pass efficiency under pressure. Would be even worse with gridiron-raised players 

Just getting used to a bigger ball would take ages , and as you say , no real need for aerobic fitness in gridiron , they wouldn't last ten minutes , and would take a long time to get it 

[dixiedean]

3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Thats a strange assertion. 

The NFL has Laurent Duverny-Tardiff a qualified doctor with a masters in surgery. 

RL had Gareth Hock. 

Unfair!

Mr. Hock has a long and varied experience  of re-arranging other people's body parts.

[dixiedean]

33 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Just getting used to a bigger ball would take ages , and as you say , no real need for aerobic fitness in gridiron , they wouldn't last ten minutes , and would take a long time to get it 

It's a bit like saying Usain Bolt, Greg Rutherford and Mo Farah are all world class athletes. Yes they are. But that doesn't necessarily translate.

I see US football as the 100 m, RU as summat technical like long jump, or pole vault, and RL as the 5000 metres.

If asked to switch would they give it a bloody good go? Of course. They are all super fit and used to working hard. They'd probably be better than your average honest trier.

Are they all dedicated, committed athletes? Well yes of course. Would they give their all out of professional pride and will to win? Absolutely. But it isn't that simple...

[aj1908]

i think playing home games in england is something longer term the wolfpack cant do as it gives other teams too much of an advantage.

having months now before they get an actual home game sets them behind the 8 ball big time

the other thing is eventually the club has to be based full time in toronto when it is properly established in super league

what worked in the champ and league one probabaly wont work in super league

[The Great Dane]

1 hour ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

Look at your international team and forget sevens.   Sevens players will get destroyed in Rugby League.

It's only recently that NRL clubs have started trying out 7s players, so there isn't a great pool of talent to measure from, but early attempts of trying to convert 7s players have been reasonably successful, arguably more successful then recent attempts to convert full 15 a side RU players.

With all due respect to the Wolverines, the average Canadian 7s team member is probably more professional and has much more experience playing at a higher standard of play than your average Canadian RL player, so being realistic if one was going to quickly make the jump to SL standard it's more likely that it'd be a Canadian 7s player than, again with all due respect, what is effectively a low level park footballer in a Canadian RL player.

So yeah it wouldn't be my first option if I was the Wolfpack, but if they need a winger/centre/fullback, which are the positions that 7s players tend to excel in, then trying a 7s player out wouldn't be a bad option so long as they can pull it off without breaking the bank.

[TIWIT]

6 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

It's only recently that NRL clubs have started trying out 7s players, so there isn't a great pool of talent to measure from, but early attempts of trying to convert 7s players have been reasonably successful, arguably more successful then recent attempts to convert full 15 a side RU players.

With all due respect to the Wolverines, the average Canadian 7s team member is probably more professional and has much more experience playing at a higher standard of play than your average Canadian RL player, so being realistic if one was going to quickly make the jump to SL standard it's more likely that it'd be a Canadian 7s player than, again with all due respect, what is effectively a low level park footballer in a Canadian RL player.

So yeah it wouldn't be my first option if I was the Wolfpack, but if they need a winger/centre/fullback, which are the positions that 7s players tend to excel in, then trying a 7s player out wouldn't be a bad option so long as they can pull it off without breaking the bank.

Interesting take. Thanks.

[TheReaper]

NFL/CFL plays are 5-10 second bursts, so players train for that.  They've been in professional training environments for at least four years of college. They know how to accept coaching and train for a specific requirement.

Change those requirements, and provide the coaching, and they are some of the best suited athletes in the world to attempt it. As mentioned,  many play both ways, many play other sports at high levels ti the point they're even drafted by multiple leagues, and many are just plain smart and skilled people. Denying that is ignorance fuelled by stereotypes and lack of exposure. We've had crossover guys go from NFL and CFL to international 7s, and vice versa. 

Not saying it would be easy, not saying the effort would pay off in a way that made financial sense. Most of all you need these guys to WANT to do it. You don't do that by nobody ever hearing of you or your sport.

[TIWIT]

28 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

i think playing home games in england is something longer term the wolfpack cant do as it gives other teams too much of an advantage.

having months now before they get an actual home game sets them behind the 8 ball big time

the other thing is eventually the club has to be based full time in toronto when it is properly established in super league

what worked in the champ and league one probabaly wont work in super league

The simplest solution to that is to start the season later. For a 'summer'  league to start the first weekend in February is ridiculous. Even a month later would make all the difference. Toronto in February can hit -30. In July, +30.

[CanadianRugger]

1 hour ago, TheReaper said:

NFL/CFL plays are 5-10 second bursts, so players train for that.  They've been in professional training environments for at least four years of college. They know how to accept coaching and train for a specific requirement.

Change those requirements, and provide the coaching, and they are some of the best suited athletes in the world to attempt it. As mentioned,  many play both ways, many play other sports at high levels ti the point they're even drafted by multiple leagues, and many are just plain smart and skilled people. Denying that is ignorance fuelled by stereotypes and lack of exposure. We've had crossover guys go from NFL and CFL to international 7s, and vice versa. 

Not saying it would be easy, not saying the effort would pay off in a way that made financial sense. Most of all you need these guys to WANT to do it. You don't do that by nobody ever hearing of you or your sport.

Mike Pyke literally played Basketball, Professional Rugby Union and later Aussie Rules Football.

Jeff Hassler played Football and was an All-Canadian Running Back then played Sevens and was signed to Pro14 where he was on the dream team and was one of the best players in the league.