GUBRATS Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, Oldbear said: Probably then why it’s no chance of happening. I suggested this plan, which may or may not be crazy, because the way I see it if ANY team is invited to take up the 12th spot for next season they are on a hiding to nothing, little time to recruit a SL ready squad and probably forced to overpay for those players who as Dave T said, will be floating around. In fact the suspicious amongst us could say that any invite would purely be to protect the 11 incumbents since any 12th team brought in would be the odds on candidate for relegation. My idea of the mini comp for those teams interested, and financially capable stems from my suspicion that crowds may not be back in stadiums until early summer next year, which would create a major problem for the Championship meaning no comp, or a reduced comp at best, and at least with my idea the winner of the mini comp would be guaranteed to be promoted and not this semi regular farce of the Championship winner (or middle 8’s winner) being left to wait it out for SL to decide if they can be promoted, with each week of delay potentially impacting upon the available time to recruit players. As I said , nobody could genuinely complain , the chance for all who wish it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 9 hours ago, Robin Evans said: If you did that, SL would consist of about 5-6 clubs As @Hela Wigmennoted above that's a generous number. If the standards of big time major league pro sport were applied, more than likely none of the current clubs would measure up. 9 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: Again we have folk believing that RL is a universally loved game that will thrive wherever a club is plonked. Truth is that 125 years of history say otherwise and it's really not massively popular even in its UK heartlands. And that lack of popularity has to change (or maybe be changed is a better way to put it) for the sport to have a future in the northern hemisphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulga Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 8 hours ago, Robin Evans said: Of course it does. But Pulga, a twp fan, was arguing that all should be treated the same...... when thats clearly not the case. Don't mistake me for a TWP fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulga Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Big Picture said: As @Hela Wigmennoted above that's a generous number. If the standards of big time major league pro sport were applied, more than likely none of the current clubs would measure up. And that lack of popularity has to change (or maybe be changed is a better way to put it) for the sport to have a future in the northern hemisphere. The question needs to be asked: What happened between the early 90s when Aussie players were leaving to play in the bigger competition in England and now? Why has the standard slipped so far in the English game? Read about the front-runners for the new Brisbane team: https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/brisbane-expansion-17th-team-redcliffe-dolphins-firehawks-western-corridor-ipswich-bombers/52271ebd-2713-497c-a100-feef49cb856f These are not even NRL clubs yet and they're boasting numbers that all Super League clubs would struggle to match. The on-field level has been argued about forever: "The NRL is a much higher level" etc. Let's talk about the off-field. Why has the English game fallen so far behind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Oldbear said: Proof of net worth is only part of the equation though. What if he is totally able to fund the Wolfpack, but at the end of the season decides that SL has not helped him in his aim to promote his grooming products, does he stick with it or just walk away? My concern with relying on sugar daddies, especially hard nosed business types, is that their long term commitment needs to be ascertained as much as their net worth. Richard Branson is a good example of someone who had no problem funding the Broncos, but did not have the willingness to stay involved once he was not getting the business spin offs. I know nothing about LiVolsi, but if his plan is to purely use TWP to promote his grooming products what happens if that plan does not bear the fruit he anticipates, it won’t matter how rich he is if he has no interest in either TWP or the sport in general, he will just walk away . I get my grooming products on line, from Henley on Thames. Not from Saskatchewan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 26 minutes ago, Pulga said: The question needs to be asked: What happened between the early 90s when Aussie players were leaving to play in the bigger competition in England and now? Why has the standard slipped so far in the English game? Read about the front-runners for the new Brisbane team: https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/brisbane-expansion-17th-team-redcliffe-dolphins-firehawks-western-corridor-ipswich-bombers/52271ebd-2713-497c-a100-feef49cb856f These are not even NRL clubs yet and they're boasting numbers that all Super League clubs would struggle to match. The on-field level has been argued about forever: "The NRL is a much higher level" etc. Let's talk about the off-field. Why has the English game fallen so far behind? In the early 90 s the 2 comps played at different times of the year , which meant players from both sides could ' guest ' at opposite hemisphere clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 10 hours ago, Pulga said: The question needs to be asked: What happened between the early 90s when Aussie players were leaving to play in the bigger competition in England and now? Why has the standard slipped so far in the English game? Read about the front-runners for the new Brisbane team: https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/brisbane-expansion-17th-team-redcliffe-dolphins-firehawks-western-corridor-ipswich-bombers/52271ebd-2713-497c-a100-feef49cb856f These are not even NRL clubs yet and they're boasting numbers that all Super League clubs would struggle to match. The on-field level has been argued about forever: "The NRL is a much higher level" etc. Let's talk about the off-field. Why has the English game fallen so far behind? To be fair there are a few poorly run NRL clubs who would struggle without the broadcast handout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 11 hours ago, Pulga said: The question needs to be asked: What happened between the early 90s when Aussie players were leaving to play in the bigger competition in England and now? Why has the standard slipped so far in the English game? Read about the front-runners for the new Brisbane team: https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/brisbane-expansion-17th-team-redcliffe-dolphins-firehawks-western-corridor-ipswich-bombers/52271ebd-2713-497c-a100-feef49cb856f These are not even NRL clubs yet and they're boasting numbers that all Super League clubs would struggle to match. The on-field level has been argued about forever: "The NRL is a much higher level" etc. Let's talk about the off-field. Why has the English game fallen so far behind? Standing still is going backwards to some extent. Which includes facilities, international game and expanding into new markets. Some of those have been improved on but not by enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilCarrington Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 14 hours ago, Yosser said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/54761414 Carlo LiVolsi will underwrite losses if club readmitted to Super League LiVolsi says he will confirm proof of his net worth to the RFL and Super League, but only if the Wolfpack get a majority of votes at Monday's meeting. They estimate a turnover of £2m in 2021 rising to £5.4m in 2025, but with anticipated losses of £3.5m in the next three years. Argylle's net worth is probably still quite high, but the problem cited for him to continue was liquidity. Livosi's caveated promise does not demonstrate he can actually fund the losses over the next 3 years. Worrying, but doubtless we'll be told the sunlit uplands are just around the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 20 hours ago, Mr Plow said: Whatever happens to Toronto I look forward to the subsequent reviews into the other 11 SL clubs and their financial plans. An inquiry into the Bradford Bulls would be interesting too If a club leaves Super League mid-season, it is appropriate that they have to jump hurdles if they want to be readmitted. But they would all have player pathways to point to as a starter, and being part of a paying TV deal. Good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 On 31/10/2020 at 09:35, GUBRATS said: Given what we are currently seeing and hearing on the news , any discussion about having Toronto playing in SL again in 3 months is madness , ' tilting at Windmills ' comes to mind , tell them they retain their place which is ' frozen ' until next April , when it will be up for discussion again If the BBC report is correct and the second submission falls short of requirement, what is the point of another discussion? Monday should be a black or white finite decision in or out, no more grey area's of try again in a while. From the report: "Super League Europe's executive, tasked with investigating the submission from the Wolfpack, has concluded that expansion into Canada does not make strategic sense" FWiW that has always been my opinion, nothing about any club from Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 22 hours ago, Pulga said: I agree. If it doesn't add up then I get it. But do we all believe these same criteria could be put to measure every club in SL and they would all pass? I'm more than sceptical. Agreed, get rid of those from SL who are in that division totally reliant on funding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 13 hours ago, Quolls2020 said: So he is going to prove he can afford his undertakings only AFTER SL has accepted he can afford his undertakings...huh? As a negotiating stance that actually seems quite reasonable. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 22 hours ago, Robin Evans said: Scenario. Village team that is in good nick, good balance sheet, posting a surplus win GF and who's income streams can more than match SL gets promoted OR A current SL club that is on its ar se, struggling in all aspects of operation.... poor team, ###### ground... skint... Which do you keep??? Alternatively, current SL clubs abandon a season, havent paid players and who's finance plans for next year are crapola.... do you keep them... and if we keep them what will the impact be on the rest of the game?? Joke questions?? Plenty truth in jest Robin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 11 hours ago, Pulga said: The question needs to be asked: What happened between the early 90s when Aussie players were leaving to play in the bigger competition in England and now? Why has the standard slipped so far in the English game? Read about the front-runners for the new Brisbane team: https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/brisbane-expansion-17th-team-redcliffe-dolphins-firehawks-western-corridor-ipswich-bombers/52271ebd-2713-497c-a100-feef49cb856f These are not even NRL clubs yet and they're boasting numbers that all Super League clubs would struggle to match. The on-field level has been argued about forever: "The NRL is a much higher level" etc. Let's talk about the off-field. Why has the English game fallen so far behind? Well, the Australian economy boomed, for one thing. Similarly "traditional" Australian sports boomed also, allowing the players to become full-time and well paid. I believe this is what is called an economic cycle and, for once, cannot be laid at the door of the RFL. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 38 minutes ago, PhilCarrington said: Argylle's net worth is probably still quite high, but the problem cited for him to continue was liquidity. Livosi's caveated promise does not demonstrate he can actually fund the losses over the next 3 years. Worrying, but doubtless we'll be told the sunlit uplands are just around the corner. Because we're not privy to the numbers its pretty much sparsely informed guesswork on our part. We have kayakman's predictions of unicorns and rainbows where the world of twp is beautiful and prosperous.... and world of rugby league spreads like covid in Canada And those predictions of financial armageddon from others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: If the BBC report is correct and the second submission falls short of requirement, what is the point of another discussion? Monday should be a black or white finite decision in or out, no more grey area's of try again in a while. From the report: "Super League Europe's executive, tasked with investigating the submission from the Wolfpack, has concluded that expansion into Canada does not make strategic sense" FWiW that has always been my opinion, nothing about any club from Canada. Harry , I suggested they be ' mothballed ' back in April for the current season , I don't really see what has changed since , to me all these discussions and presentations are a complete waste of time energy and sandwiches and coffee We are in a crisis , I don't want any club to dissapear, Toronto and indeed Catalans/Toulouse to a lesser degree need to be looked at differently for their benefit as well as the sport as a whole All IMO of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 21 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said: I’m a Saints fan, the last thing I want is a 6 team league (and I’m being generous on six), which is exactly what we’d get if we strictly enforced a criteria that all clubs must hit. We ended up with a plethora of teams hitting some criteria but not all under the licensing system that Super League enforced before and a handful of clubs outside of Super League scratching their head because they hit some criteria but not all and weren’t admitted into the league at the first stage or when the second stage come around and teams who were in the fold hadn’t ticked any more boxes since the introduction of the criteria. You loosen your level of strictness and you get the standards we’ve become accustomed to while leaving plenty disenchanted outside of the fold. Agree with that Hela, so what has effectively happened is that the rules have been made up as we have gone along with the overriding factor of possession (of a SL sopt) is 90% of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Agree with that Hela, so what has effectively happened is that the rules have been made up as we have gone along with the overriding factor of possession (of a SL sopt) is 90% of the law. I missed the post by Hela Wigmen. Again, I concur wholeheartedly with that quote Harry. Because licencing was based on criteria that couldn't possibly be met by all those clubs in SL, then the angst was felt by those outside it. The process lacked the transparency that p&r gives you, but that's another very well worn argument. Pugla arguing that all should be treated the same is a nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 21 hours ago, mrfranco said: Let's hope that factors like this are considered by the Super League board when deciding on the "added value" of having a team in Canada... in addition to any (future) benefits coming out of Canada of seeds sown there (discussed enough elsewhere in this thread), when SL talks about "fishing where the fish are", there sure as hell aren't any more fish than there are in Aus. SL needs to up its visibility in Australia - there's clearly demand for RL there and money to be made. Exploiting the presence of a glamour club in Canada that clearly does pique RL fans' interest in Australia (see the post I quote above and the one immediately next to it) is exactly the type of thing that can help it do that. Those who frequent other UK media platforms other than TRL, say there is far more feeling against reinstating TWP with threats of walking away from the game should they be reinstated than there is the other way round, should this also be considered by SL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilCarrington Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 55 minutes ago, Robin Evans said: Because we're not privy to the numbers its pretty much sparsely informed guesswork on our part. We have kayakman's predictions of unicorns and rainbows where the world of twp is beautiful and prosperous.... and world of rugby league spreads like covid in Canada And those predictions of financial armageddon from others But Livosi has the best information on the numbers and he's withholding the information until after the vote and then only providing the wrong information. It's yet more of the "they need us more than we need them" from TWP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 17 hours ago, Oldbear said: An 11 team comp next year seems the only likely scenario, again assuming Catalans can take part. Reasons as follows 1. even if given the green light there’s no way TWP can come up with a competitive squad in time for next season, getting smashed every week will harm the club irreparably 2. the same applies for any Championship team invited up to fill the space, they would be faced with the same lack of competitiveness or spending into oblivion to try to survive 3. actually having a team on a bye each week may help with any short notice game rearrangements as Covid is unlikely to just disappear. Maybe the solution is that SL invites applications for the 12th place in 2022, every club submits a full business plan, all applications that pass the vetting process are then asked to compete against each other in a tournament held summer next year, winner to SL for 2022, plus if timed correctly it gives the winner the luxury of a full 6 months to recruit their SL squad. I know it sounds a bit crazy but it’s better than the so called franchise approach as it incorporates the on the field element, and should remove any team that doesn’t have a pot to ###### in, whilst also allowing clubs with ambition to stake their claim. Imagine a tournament comprising of Leigh, Fev, York, Toulouse, TWP, maybe a couple of others, held at 2 neutral venues. One rule though, any team competing in this comp must not use DR players. Yep, I like that only one problem with it in that it does not guarantee Toulouse automatic promotion, that will never do surely, will it? PS, why include Toronto? They will either be in SL having accepted Livolsi's submission, or defunct considering again it is SL or bust as far as LiVolsi is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 14 hours ago, Pulga said: The question needs to be asked: What happened between the early 90s when Aussie players were leaving to play in the bigger competition in England and now? Why has the standard slipped so far in the English game? Read about the front-runners for the new Brisbane team: https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/brisbane-expansion-17th-team-redcliffe-dolphins-firehawks-western-corridor-ipswich-bombers/52271ebd-2713-497c-a100-feef49cb856f These are not even NRL clubs yet and they're boasting numbers that all Super League clubs would struggle to match. The on-field level has been argued about forever: "The NRL is a much higher level" etc. Let's talk about the off-field. Why has the English game fallen so far behind? It hasn't necessarily, it was far behind back then too. The reason why Wigan was so dominant in the early 1990s was that they copied what the Aussie clubs were doing and that put them head and shoulders above the other English clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said: Those who frequent other UK media platforms other than TRL, say there is far more feeling against reinstating TWP with threats of walking away from the game should they be reinstated than there is the other way round, should this also be considered by SL? Nope, because their loyalties are to their clubs, not to "Super League". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted November 1, 2020 Share Posted November 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Nope, because their loyalties are to their clubs, not to "Super League". Is this an assumption or do you know this as fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.