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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread


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I am devastated by todays decision.Obviously I think its wrong but I think it shows the narrow minded thinking of most super league clubs.I very much doubt the Wolfpack will ever be back as I don't se

Rugby League as a sport - fans, owners, administrators, the lot - gets what it deserves. There was an opportunity here, an owner who's spent £10m, a growing fanbase and a very attractive market,

To avoid the forum being swamped with dozens of individual threads about Toronto which generally all end up heading down the same rabbit hole eventually anyway, we're opening this general discussion t

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2 hours ago, Just Browny said:

My overall feelings were of sadness yesterday when I saw the headline, but now I have actually read the disingenuous quotes from Elstone I feel quite angry. I can't wait to see the reports on the strategic value and incremental revenue gains added by future and incumbent English teams.

Very disappointed in my own club which I thought was one of the few forward-thinking ones.

If those quotes are right then we need Elstone out of his position as soon as possible. I hope we now see him ask all the clubs to follow this:

Quote

“Toronto Wolfpack has been given every opportunity to provide the security our clubs need."

Self interest rules as usual in SL and its just being accommodated by Elstone and his ilk.

Edited by dkw
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34 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Again, I'm not a marketing gadgy.... I don't know the first thing about procurement of sponsorship.  But recent history tells us all sports, even the successful ones are facing a downturn in sponsorship.

There has never been a huge queue to sponsor our sport.

Pizza and Eddie Stobbart.....hardly shattering. I have no info that under the current climate that this can/will be reversed

I can tell you right now sponsorship is booming in certain areas my wifes sports sponsorship company and radio station had a record month in October and already November has started with a bang.

TV viewing for sports is well up radio listening is up.

The economy is adjusting 20% is dead 80% will come out of this and there are plenty of tech/fintech companies with money to spend.

 

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15 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

make a decision with the emphasis on financal  proof been having to be laid on the table within 2 weeks of re instatement- if not then after that period the place is withdrawn

The precedent has now been set by Elstone with the emphasis on financial proof. Obviously Salford, Castleford and Wakefield are going to struggle with that.

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Congratulations to the clubs for having asked this time for real guarantees and for not having only listened to a communication plan. It should have been done with the previous team but everyone was content with the infomercials.

Well done to John Davidson and all those who brought in a healthy contradiction.

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www.fcl13.fr FCL XIII - Lezignan Corbieres Rugby League

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10 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

The precedent has now been set by Elstone with the emphasis on financial proof. Obviously Salford, Castleford and Wakefield are going to struggle with that.

Which is exactly what is needed moving forward and a criteria based league, enforced strictly, regardless of whether teams are based in Yorkshire or Yosemite is what is needed. 

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Just now, Hela Wigmen said:

Which is exactly what is needed moving forward and a criteria based league, enforced strictly, regardless of whether teams are based in Yorkshire or Yosemite is what is needed. 

Well the clubs i have mentioned are going to be in very serious trouble aren't they.As between them they haven't got a pot to pee in

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16 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

I can tell you right now sponsorship is booming in certain areas my wifes sports sponsorship company and radio station had a record month in October and already November has started with a bang.

TV viewing for sports is well up radio listening is up.

The economy is adjusting 20% is dead 80% will come out of this and there are plenty of tech/fintech companies with money to spend.

 

Agree - I hadn't seen this when I posted the Championship Relaunch topic, a few minutes ago. I believe this is the time to attract sponsors relatively cheaply for projects that have plenty of potential.

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Rovers chairman Mark Campbell has issued a statement to update supporters following the decision made by Super League clubs regarding Toronto Wolfpack.

The current eleven Super League clubs, alongside the RFL, rejected Toronto’s application to return to the competition in a meeting yesterday, after the Canadian side withdrew from the competition in 2020.

Speaking after the announcement, Campbell said: “First of all, we are extremely disappointed to see this unfortunate situation happen with the Toronto Wolfpack, we feel it’s a missed opportunity for rugby league and we hope that when the world gets over this pandemic they can rise again stronger.

“Everyone at Featherstone thoroughly enjoyed our encounters with Toronto over the previous two years and nobody wants to see this happen to any club.

“Unfortunately, this outcome is the product of a self-interested league and a toothless governing body which is powered by the clubs within it, and the sport is currently at risk at being dictated by its elite sides, closing the doors to ambitious clubs at other levels.

“Two years ago, when the Super League broke away from the RFL, we as a club, fought tooth and nail for the RFL to keep their power as it was obvious to everyone in the game what would happen once the power was handed to the individual clubs and not the governing body.

“The RFL, were at the time, architects in their own demise as they manipulated and bullied clubs to vote in favour of Super League, we expressed our concerns at the time, and these concerns have been proven to be true with this week’s vote.

“I find it disturbing that the sport has found itself in a position where the RFL – the sport’s governing body, has the same voting power as just one Super League club, how can the game grow with this unjustifiable system of clubs having the power to determine the other club’s futures and the format of our elite competition.

“I sincerely hope that the correct decision is made, the game needs to retain its integrity and ensure a 12-team Super League will start in 2021, if the clubs vote for an 11-team competition this will be another nail in the rugby league coffin, which will result in more and more supporters walking away from the game in a year we should all be looking forward to, especially with the UK hosting the upcoming World Cup.

“It seems that a majority of the current 11 Super League sides primary focus lies with safeguarding their own central distribution, and although adding a 12th side to the league would preserve the integrity of the division, it would mean these clubs having to share income with a new side, if this is their priority the game is at a very low point.

“If the Super League is to become an 11 team division for 2021, it shows that the RFL holds little influence over the teams currently still in the Super League, who can feel free to act in their own self-interest and refuse a 12th participant to cement their place in the elite competition for another year without the risk of relegation, despite the TV contract for a 12-team competition.

“We hope that the Super League sides, alongside the RFL, come up with the correct decision and show some leadership, by ensuring a 12th team competes in the 2021 Super League, whoever that may be.

“Promotion to Super League should be decided on the pitch and not in a board room. On that basis, Featherstone Rovers has earnt the right to be the 12th team in the 2021 Super League season.”

#UTR | Featherstone Rovers

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Just now, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

This thread reflects much of what's wrong in the modern world: Joe Public  knocking 'experts', who have access to far more data and information than they have, and their decions because they are opposite to his own view. 

The breakdown of "experts"

On one side we have a businessman who set up an expansion club, and now runs the most successful club in Super League both on field and off it, a man who runs one of the most consistently successful super league clubs, and a man who's ran the only successful (in terms of elite silverware) expansion sides in the games history.

 

On the other, we have a club who has no money (Blease, Salford), a man who openly wants to sell because he has no more money (Hudgell, KR), a club with a ###### ground and no money (Cas), a club with a ###### ground, no money and the ambition to be the second biggest sport in the north despite being the only professional team in their city (Carter, Wakefield), a club propped up by a single elderly businessman that gives away season tickets for £100 (Thewlis, Huddersfield), a man whose image of professionalism is sacking a coach on live TV (Hull), a club that loses money hand over fist despite being successful (Wigan) and Simon Moran (who it wouldn't surprise me if he was the one who abstained).

 

Please tell me who is "anti" expert here and why.

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3 minutes ago, Manxmanc said:

Agree - I hadn't seen this when I posted the Championship Relaunch topic, a few minutes ago. I believe this is the time to attract sponsors relatively cheaply for projects that have plenty of potential.

Its the old threats and opportunities scenario. Covid-19 is a huge threat at the moment but to the savvy it provides many opportunities.

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4 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

 

“Promotion to Super League should be decided on the pitch and not in a board room. On that basis, Featherstone Rovers has earnt the right to be the 12th team in the 2021 Super League season.”

#UTR | Featherstone Rovers

Eh?

 

How have they learnt the right to be in next seasons Super League, he's a much full of self interest as those he derides.

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Why’s that Campbell at Fev mk

5 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Rovers chairman Mark Campbell has issued a statement to update supporters following the decision made by Super League clubs regarding Toronto Wolfpack.

The current eleven Super League clubs, alongside the RFL, rejected Toronto’s application to return to the competition in a meeting yesterday, after the Canadian side withdrew from the competition in 2020.

Speaking after the announcement, Campbell said: “First of all, we are extremely disappointed to see this unfortunate situation happen with the Toronto Wolfpack, we feel it’s a missed opportunity for rugby league and we hope that when the world gets over this pandemic they can rise again stronger.

“Everyone at Featherstone thoroughly enjoyed our encounters with Toronto over the previous two years and nobody wants to see this happen to any club.

“Unfortunately, this outcome is the product of a self-interested league and a toothless governing body which is powered by the clubs within it, and the sport is currently at risk at being dictated by its elite sides, closing the doors to ambitious clubs at other levels.

“Two years ago, when the Super League broke away from the RFL, we as a club, fought tooth and nail for the RFL to keep their power as it was obvious to everyone in the game what would happen once the power was handed to the individual clubs and not the governing body.

“The RFL, were at the time, architects in their own demise as they manipulated and bullied clubs to vote in favour of Super League, we expressed our concerns at the time, and these concerns have been proven to be true with this week’s vote.

“I find it disturbing that the sport has found itself in a position where the RFL – the sport’s governing body, has the same voting power as just one Super League club, how can the game grow with this unjustifiable system of clubs having the power to determine the other club’s futures and the format of our elite competition.

“I sincerely hope that the correct decision is made, the game needs to retain its integrity and ensure a 12-team Super League will start in 2021, if the clubs vote for an 11-team competition this will be another nail in the rugby league coffin, which will result in more and more supporters walking away from the game in a year we should all be looking forward to, especially with the UK hosting the upcoming World Cup.

“It seems that a majority of the current 11 Super League sides primary focus lies with safeguarding their own central distribution, and although adding a 12th side to the league would preserve the integrity of the division, it would mean these clubs having to share income with a new side, if this is their priority the game is at a very low point.

“If the Super League is to become an 11 team division for 2021, it shows that the RFL holds little influence over the teams currently still in the Super League, who can feel free to act in their own self-interest and refuse a 12th participant to cement their place in the elite competition for another year without the risk of relegation, despite the TV contract for a 12-team competition.

“We hope that the Super League sides, alongside the RFL, come up with the correct decision and show some leadership, by ensuring a 12th team competes in the 2021 Super League, whoever that may be.

“Promotion to Super League should be decided on the pitch and not in a board room. On that basis, Featherstone Rovers has earnt the right to be the 12th team in the 2021 Super League season.”

#UTR | Featherstone Rovers

Good statement from Gary H. 

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10 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Rovers chairman Mark Campbell has issued a statement to update supporters following the decision made by Super League clubs regarding Toronto Wolfpack.

The current eleven Super League clubs, alongside the RFL, rejected Toronto’s application to return to the competition in a meeting yesterday, after the Canadian side withdrew from the competition in 2020.

Speaking after the announcement, Campbell said: “First of all, we are extremely disappointed to see this unfortunate situation happen with the Toronto Wolfpack, we feel it’s a missed opportunity for rugby league and we hope that when the world gets over this pandemic they can rise again stronger.

“Everyone at Featherstone thoroughly enjoyed our encounters with Toronto over the previous two years and nobody wants to see this happen to any club.

“Unfortunately, this outcome is the product of a self-interested league and a toothless governing body which is powered by the clubs within it, and the sport is currently at risk at being dictated by its elite sides, closing the doors to ambitious clubs at other levels.

“Two years ago, when the Super League broke away from the RFL, we as a club, fought tooth and nail for the RFL to keep their power as it was obvious to everyone in the game what would happen once the power was handed to the individual clubs and not the governing body.

“The RFL, were at the time, architects in their own demise as they manipulated and bullied clubs to vote in favour of Super League, we expressed our concerns at the time, and these concerns have been proven to be true with this week’s vote.

“I find it disturbing that the sport has found itself in a position where the RFL – the sport’s governing body, has the same voting power as just one Super League club, how can the game grow with this unjustifiable system of clubs having the power to determine the other club’s futures and the format of our elite competition.

“I sincerely hope that the correct decision is made, the game needs to retain its integrity and ensure a 12-team Super League will start in 2021, if the clubs vote for an 11-team competition this will be another nail in the rugby league coffin, which will result in more and more supporters walking away from the game in a year we should all be looking forward to, especially with the UK hosting the upcoming World Cup.

“It seems that a majority of the current 11 Super League sides primary focus lies with safeguarding their own central distribution, and although adding a 12th side to the league would preserve the integrity of the division, it would mean these clubs having to share income with a new side, if this is their priority the game is at a very low point.

“If the Super League is to become an 11 team division for 2021, it shows that the RFL holds little influence over the teams currently still in the Super League, who can feel free to act in their own self-interest and refuse a 12th participant to cement their place in the elite competition for another year without the risk of relegation, despite the TV contract for a 12-team competition.

“We hope that the Super League sides, alongside the RFL, come up with the correct decision and show some leadership, by ensuring a 12th team competes in the 2021 Super League, whoever that may be.

“Promotion to Super League should be decided on the pitch and not in a board room. On that basis, Featherstone Rovers has earnt the right to be the 12th team in the 2021 Super League season.”

#UTR | Featherstone Rovers

Fev with an elite mentality.

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3 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Snip

I'm not going to quote this due to it being such a long statement but its pretty hard to argue with that or that viewpoint. I'll be honest I don't see how Fev replacing Toronto is a positive for the game as a whole going forward. I even have reservations if it is even right for Fev as a club and would put their growth and success as a club to being at a sustainable level in the Championship, allowing them to do that rather than spending all their money trying to cling on in SL.

However under the system we currently have it is only right that they get that chance and there is no way that SL should just be 11 clubs next season. I would prefer Toulouse for the game to grow but Fev deserve the place based on losing to Toronto in the play off final. If anyone else is admitted then it is licensing and picking and choosing. In that case why stop there and not look at current SL club incumbents too.

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4 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

You obviously don't know mark.

I don’t think Mark knows Mark based off that. I think he could rival Degsy for the wildest chairman outside of Super League having read his absolute stinking desperation to get into Toronto’s grave before they’ve gone cold, twice now. 

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1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I don’t think Mark knows Mark based off that. I think he could rival Degsy for the wildest chairman outside of Super League having read his absolute stinking desperation to get into Toronto’s grave before they’ve gone cold, twice now. 

Mark is a businessman. He is a very determined character and makes things happen. 

True, he'll never win the angel of the year award. No room for sentiment where business is concerned. Sentiments is for soft sheeites like me......

And trust me..... he could leave delbert trailing in his shadows..... he's not even close when it comes to being ....shall we say.... forthright......

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

This thread reflects much of what's wrong in the modern world: Joe Public  knocking 'experts', who have access to far more data and information than they have, and their decions because they are opposite to his own view. 

Lets not forget the... conspiracy  aspects that many will always "throw up" with regard to decisions... or lack of transparency... as another from the anti tool-bag to support whatever decision that is not agreed with... oh and the lies/untruths...

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Well, that's the end of expansion of the game. Who in their right mind is going to try and bring a new club from outside the M62 into the game now? And if we're not expanding at best we're standing still, more likely we're contracting and losing clubs. A local game for local people.

Is it any surprise that things look grim? We seem to have a sport run by people very lacking in vision or imagination. People who believe  that a title sponsor who doesn't offer money but instead offers adverts on the side of a truck is the right way to go. Or is it free tuna pizzas instead of hard cash? We have sponsors with such aspirational products as mushy peas, bingo, and betting. Our champion team are sponsored by a pawn broker.

Of course the Toronto bid may have had shortcomings - I'm obviously not party to any discussions - but the whole scenario reeks of self interest, short sighted shorttermism by the clubs that rejected them, the clubs that benefit from an increased share out of the central funds. The whole way Toronto have been treated set them up to fail.  No offer of a share of the Sky money, no flexibility on salary cap - do we really expect the cost of living to be the same in a large N American city as it is in a small north of England town?- and total lack of understanding when Covid struck that they could not access furlough payments apart from having zero possibility of match income and no central broadcast revenues.The RL were given a £16m government loan to tide the sport over this difficult period. Toronto were unable to access this. Is it any surprise they had to pull out of the 2020 season?

Regrettably I can see no other scenario other than slow decline and fall for our sport. We just don't have the vision to see beyond our own back yard. Sad,    

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