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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread


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I am devastated by todays decision.Obviously I think its wrong but I think it shows the narrow minded thinking of most super league clubs.I very much doubt the Wolfpack will ever be back as I don't se

Rugby League as a sport - fans, owners, administrators, the lot - gets what it deserves. There was an opportunity here, an owner who's spent £10m, a growing fanbase and a very attractive market,

To avoid the forum being swamped with dozens of individual threads about Toronto which generally all end up heading down the same rabbit hole eventually anyway, we're opening this general discussion t

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15 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

Elstone seems more crooked than Trump, and that's saying something. 

Yes, the guy who was cynical of TWP and their reliance on one major owner is the crook here and not the bloke who shafted scores of people for millions of dollars. 

The rewriting of history is almost complete. 

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12 hours ago, DoubleD said:

So I’m far from his biggest fan, but Derek Beaumont has just donated £1k. Hats off to him, a very magnanimous and generous offer, especially considering the actions of others recently 

Davide Longo appears to have put some money in too 

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24 minutes ago, Neutralfan7 said:

In a nutshell, can someone explain why the gofund page for Toronto has been set up? Thanks 

I think its because the staff haven't been paid for about 6 months. 

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11 hours ago, Dave T said:

Yes, the guy who was cynical of TWP and their reliance on one major owner is the crook here and not the bloke who shafted scores of people for millions of dollars. 

The rewriting of history is almost complete. 

That was Argyle, not Toronto and tell me which English club doesn't rely on a major owner.

   As for Elstone, my opinion remains the same. Can't you see the contradictions in his reasoning for the Toronto decision.   

  What professional sporting competition actively chooses to kill off a club and therefore contract its footprint? He commissioned a report that didn't even consult all stakeholders and compared Canada to France.  He used every roadblock in the hope to achieve this outcome. 

 What professional sporting competition actively chooses to have an unequal playing field with team 12 receiving less funding?

 He precided over these decisions. Crooked might be the wrong word, incompetent is better.  

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1 minute ago, Omott91 said:

That was Argyle, not Toronto and tell me which English club doesn't rely on a major owner.

   As for Elstone, my opinion remains the same. Can't you see the contradictions in his reasoning for the Toronto decision.   

  What professional sporting competition actively chooses to kill off a club and therefore contract its footprint? He commissioned a report that didn't even consult all stakeholders and compared Canada to France.  He used every roadblock in the hope to achieve this outcome. 

 What professional sporting competition actively chooses to have an unequal playing field with team 12 receiving less funding?

 He precided over these decisions. Crooked might be the wrong word, incompetent is better.  

So absolutely nothing to do with TWP stringing the league along before pulling out just before the season was due to re-commence, nothing to do with the way they've treated players, suppliers, other clubs, fans and any other creditors they've had over the last few years (not just since the start of the pandemic) and nothing to do with the lack of evidence presented to SL, which hardly suggested a change in approach with regard to the latter. Elstone ain't perfect, but he's not the real villain in this.

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7 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

That was Argyle, not Toronto and tell me which English club doesn't rely on a major owner.

   As for Elstone, my opinion remains the same. Can't you see the contradictions in his reasoning for the Toronto decision.   

  What professional sporting competition actively chooses to kill off a club and therefore contract its footprint? He commissioned a report that didn't even consult all stakeholders and compared Canada to France.  He used every roadblock in the hope to achieve this outcome. 

 What professional sporting competition actively chooses to have an unequal playing field with team 12 receiving less funding?

 He precided over these decisions. Crooked might be the wrong word, incompetent is better.  

Shareholder reliance is a challenge/weakness of the game, but tbh it will always be a thing. The difference between strong teams in the UK and TWP was that the UK teams had turnovers of £7-10m that underpins their activity rather than an owner pumping in £5m per year - no UK club has that level of shareholder reliance. Personally that doesn't bother me based on the stage of the journey that TWP were at, but that is where Elstone's concerns where from.

On your question in bold:

- Super Rugby

- NRL

- Home Nations Rugby Unions

- Plus many American teams have been killed off.

Many governing bodies have rejected clubs. Loads of examples in history.

 

Your last line clarification is welcome, I won't bother defending Elstone, as I don't have too much time for him tbh, I have no issue with people thinking he is incompetent.

Edited by Dave T
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I'm finding it difficult to tell the difference between threads abot referees and those about Elstone now.

And I can't get the idea that the much vaunted Hearns would last about 4 minutes (if that) in this environment.

 

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trayodasha-kula = image.png.ee0bb2be98badfd4cc6ff4395bca5f4e.png

 

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8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Shareholder reliance is a challenge/weakness of the game, but tbh it will always be a thing. The difference between strong teams in the UK and TWP was that the UK teams had turnovers of £7-10m that underpins their activity rather than an owner pumping in £5m per year - no UK club has that level of shareholder reliance. Personally that doesn't bother me based on the stage of the journey that TWP were at, but that is where Elstone's concerns where from.

On your question in bold:

- Super Rugby

- NRL

- Home Nations Rugby Unions

- Plus many American teams have been killed off.

Many governing bodies have rejected clubs. Loads of examples in history.

 

Your last line clarification is welcome, I won't bother defending Elstone, as I don't have too much time for him tbh, I have no issue with people thinking he is incompetent.

The Nrl hasn't killed off any clubs. If you're refering to the Super league war, some clubs were never going to make as they were going from 2 competitions to 1.

 As for Super Rugby, they were and are in financial turmoil. It was never a case of ''we could have this team continue but we don't want them'' as super league have done and will just replace them with another. No other competition has done this. 

  

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4 minutes ago, Neutralfan7 said:

Ah right, so we'll all pay for them then 😂 not like anyone else has money troubles at the minute! Unbelievable 

Don't contribute then. Its not compulsory. 

The gofundme page is there for those who want to chuck in a few drachma to help out those who haven't been paid.

If you don't want to, don't. C'est la vie. 

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3 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

The Nrl hasn't killed off any clubs. If you're refering to the Super league war, some clubs were never going to make as they were going from 2 competitions to 1.

 As for Super Rugby, they were and are in financial turmoil. It was never a case of ''we could have this team continue but we don't want them'' as super league have done and will just replace them with another. No other competition has done this. 

  

Come on now. 

Perth and Adelaide for example were killed off by governing bodies and reduced the footprint. It's a perfect example of what you said governing bodies don't do. 

You're just happy to accept their reasons. 

Same for Super Rugby. 

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5 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Don't contribute then. Its not compulsory. 

The gofundme page is there for those who want to chuck in a few drachma to help out those who haven't been paid.

If you don't want to, don't. C'est la vie. 

New low from Toronto in the shambles of a club! Good riddance!

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5 minutes ago, Neutralfan7 said:

New low from Toronto in the shambles of a club! Good riddance!

OK you don't like Toronto. I can live with that. But the lads who signed on in good faith haven't been paid.... hence the gofundme.

Again, if you're not motivated to contribute, that's fairy nuff!

C'est la vie.

Edit. AFAIK, the gofundme has nowt to do with twp

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21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Come on now. 

Perth and Adelaide for example were killed off by governing bodies and reduced the footprint. It's a perfect example of what you said governing bodies don't do. 

You're just happy to accept their reasons. 

Same for Super Rugby. 

Didn’t they fold because they weren’t financially viable, not killed off by the NRL. 

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4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Didn’t they fold because they weren’t financially viable, not killed off by the NRL. 

The governing body sacked them off due to financial issues (in pretty much all cases highlighted) and TWP are no different at all, despite the claims that they had a nice easy choice to carry on. Many clubs over the years have had financial difficulties and carried on (or reborn) and many clubs have had financial difficulties and been kicked out. 

TWP 'went bust' when they stopped playing RL and paying their employees. They were no longer a thing in reality. 

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42 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The governing body sacked them off due to financial issues (in pretty much all cases highlighted) and TWP are no different at all, despite the claims that they had a nice easy choice to carry on. Many clubs over the years have had financial difficulties and carried on (or reborn) and many clubs have had financial difficulties and been kicked out. 

TWP 'went bust' when they stopped playing RL and paying their employees. They were no longer a thing in reality. 

Yeh.... but Elstone.... and SL etc etc

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1 hour ago, Robin Evans said:

OK you don't like Toronto. I can live with that. But the lads who signed on in good faith haven't been paid.... hence the gofundme.

Again, if you're not motivated to contribute, that's fairy nuff!

C'est la vie.

Edit. AFAIK, the gofundme has nowt to do with twp

Per the email, "Brian McDermott, Martin Vickers and Bob Hunter of Toronto Wolfpack are asking for the support of the sporting world to raise vital funds for the players and staff of Toronto Wolfpack, within the UK and Canada". 

Clicking on the gofundme link on the email goes to a page which starts: "Toronto Wolfpack is organising this fundraiser".

That suggests it IS a TWP gofundme.

Wonder how they'll split the £30k between the players. 

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5 minutes ago, PhilCarrington said:

Per the email, "Brian McDermott, Martin Vickers and Bob Hunter of Toronto Wolfpack are asking for the support of the sporting world to raise vital funds for the players and staff of Toronto Wolfpack, within the UK and Canada". 

Clicking on the gofundme link on the email goes to a page which starts: "Toronto Wolfpack is organising this fundraiser".

That suggests it IS a TWP gofundme.

Wonder how they'll split the £30k between the players. 

£29k to SBW and a one-time Deliveroo for the rest.

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33 minutes ago, PhilCarrington said:

Per the email, "Brian McDermott, Martin Vickers and Bob Hunter of Toronto Wolfpack are asking for the support of the sporting world to raise vital funds for the players and staff of Toronto Wolfpack, within the UK and Canada". 

Clicking on the gofundme link on the email goes to a page which starts: "Toronto Wolfpack is organising this fundraiser".

That suggests it IS a TWP gofundme.

Wonder how they'll split the £30k between the players. 

It's between all c. 50 staff. I seem to recall reading it would be split equally

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I don't get the negative comments here and elsewhere. The GFM page is set up to help those not being paid.

You don't want to contribute? Fine. Don't.

But why the vitriol on this?

Is there some kind of karma I'm missing here cos the lads in question played for twp?? 

Jesus H Arkwright.....

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