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John Drake

The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

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3 hours ago, Oxford said:

Got to say I do find it rather sad that one Dave, a game of TGG down the road and  we CBA, no use complaining anymore about empty stadia, and holes in the crowds at finals or for internationals then is it?

The majority of Saints fans don't bother with away games. That's life and is the same with most teams in most sports. Many buy a season ticket, go to home games and is a good hobby for them. 

I see little reason why they would go and pay for an away game that has relatively little appeal just because it is down the road. 

There is even less reason why Wire fans would attend. 

This game is also on TV. 

There is no criticism due here. 

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2 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

This is gonna get really embarrassing very quickly when the shiny new trans Atlantic Super League club with SBW can't field a full team!! English rugby league is amateur hour. It'll be a farce - an absolute indictment on English administrators - if Toronto aren't given dispensation to which they're entitled, based on cost of living and other salary cap dispensation they can't access as a new expansion club. 

As somebody who wants TWP to do well (and certainly stay up!), I have a fair bit of anger for TWP and the active decision they made to run with a 23 man squad and push for dispensations late in the day. 

If they are paying over the odds, they have been doing so for 3 years now and haven't planned accordingly or won the dispensations before spending the last of their money on slot 23 instead of spreading it across 23 to 25.

The reason they are short of bodies is because of their actions first and foremost. It was arrogant, and being proven misguided 3 rounds in. 

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1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Runs multiple sides, ie reserves, Academy

Like last season’s Grand Final runners up,both Hull teams and most of the Championship:League 1 teams.

Edited by Davo5
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19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The majority of Saints fans don't bother with away games. That's life

Just as sad Dave. but it's not life.

The thing is can we change that outlook and how to do it.

But a TGG game down the road, on your home turf doesn't seem too much of a brainer, then again I'm one who'll turn to an A team game in January in Batley.


 

 

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14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

As somebody who wants TWP to do well (and certainly stay up!), I have a fair bit of anger for TWP and the active decision they made to run with a 23 man squad and push for dispensations late in the day. 

If they are paying over the odds, they have been doing so for 3 years now and haven't planned accordingly or won the dispensations before spending the last of their money on slot 23 instead of spreading it across 23 to 25.

The reason they are short of bodies is because of their actions first and foremost. It was arrogant, and being proven misguided 3 rounds in. 

What you say has truth in it but come on Dave, they’ve existed for 5 minutes. Maybe they will make bad decisions but it’s all part of the learning process. That’s why RL should cut them more slack than other clubs, not forever but certainly in their first few years.

So they come up short in some areas, they more than compensate for that in the publicity they have brought to RL alone. They’re certainly more deserving than the clubs who do nothing year after year except just survive on 3-4K gates.

Leaving them to rot or fail because ‘that’s what Wakefield have to do’ is ludicrously short sighted. And will hurt RL more in the long run.

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6 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

What you say has truth in it but come on Dave, they’ve existed for 5 minutes. Maybe they will make bad decisions but it’s all part of the learning process. That’s why RL should cut them more slack than other clubs, not forever but certainly in their first few years.

So they come up short in some areas, they more than compensate for that in the publicity they have brought to RL alone. They’re certainly more deserving than the clubs who do nothing year after year except just survive on 3-4K gates.

Leaving them to rot or fail because ‘that’s what Wakefield have to do’ is ludicrously short sighted. And will hurt RL more in the long run.

 

I've already said they should get weighting (McDermott did a good job of justifying that last night), and I'd give youth dispensations. I'd also protect them from relegation like Catalans were. 

But I'll also criticise them for useless budget management. 

They have very experienced staff and have made decisions to sign 23 players. Literally everybody called this out as a bad decision. Because it is. And it was a conscious decision. 

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12 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Just as sad Dave. but it's not life.

The thing is can we change that outlook and how to do it.

But a TGG game down the road, on your home turf doesn't seem too much of a brainer, then again I'm one who'll turn to an A team game in January in Batley.

Your expectation is unrealistic. This event isn't free. 

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They had the chance with Singleton , Cunningham to spread that cap money out over more players . Any dispensation should have been discussed before they finalised those signings . I’m a Toronto lover not a hater , but giving them the extra 105k could give a potential scenario where other clubs could use an injury crisis to cry dispensation.  

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

I've already said they should get weighting (McDermott did a good job of justifying that last night), and I'd give youth dispensations. I'd also protect them from relegation like Catalans were. 

But I'll also criticise them for useless budget management. 

They have very experienced staff and have made decisions to sign 23 players. Literally everybody called this out as a bad decision. Because it is. And it was a conscious decision. 

Again, maybe it was a bad decision, many clubs have made them. But mistakes should be maybe taken into account Vs the overall benefit. As I said, not ad infinitum but certainly in their first 2/3 years.
Protection from relegation like Catalans is sensible but maybe even more allowances as it’s such a new area. 
 

I do understand that you aren’t one of the people who can’t wait to see Toronto fail though. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

 

I've already said they should get weighting (McDermott did a good job of justifying that last night), and I'd give youth dispensations. I'd also protect them from relegation like Catalans were. 

But I'll also criticise them for useless budget management. 

They have very experienced staff and have made decisions to sign 23 players. Literally everybody called this out as a bad decision. Because it is. And it was a conscious decision. 

I believe that the comparisons with Catalans and the protection from relegation hasn't got legs. If my memory serves me correctly Catalans were given protection from relegation because they were thrust straight into super league. TWP have come up through the divisions. Cats wee in existence in a full time professional capacity for 3 years before they ran the risk of relegation. TWP are now in their 4th year and run the risk of relegation. 

the only dispensation i believe they should be entitled to is the homegrown dispensation which could be based on an average of what the other clubs across the league are benefiting from it. Not all clubs are spending the full cap or have an abundance of academies etc to glean from but they still manage to get a squad big enough to survive the season. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Ooh Ah Timmy Street said:

They had the chance with Singleton , Cunningham to spread that cap money out over more players . Any dispensation should have been discussed before they finalised those signings . I’m a Toronto lover not a hater , but giving them the extra 105k could give a potential scenario where other clubs could use an injury crisis to cry dispensation.  

Forget the other clubs comparison, this could be sensational for SL if it comes off (and RL as a result). SL should do what it takes to help them in these early years.

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Your expectation is unrealistic. This event isn't free. 

Morning Dave!

I'm told that quite often.  But I don't expect people to go if they can't afford it but I think it's the heart of our expectation that it's near by, cheap as chips and my team is the root of many of the things you yourself have brought up on these very pages. If we can't make the effort we shouldn't sit here typing it's the RFL/SL/ marketing when there's empty seats. I suspect this has much more to do with our sport's inability to cope with change and its dislike of expansion, but not following your team along the M62, wow! As I said that's a problem of the fans not the administration. I've just gone back and underlined that bit at the top, just in case.

 


 

 

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7 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Again, maybe it was a bad decision, many clubs have made them. But mistakes should be maybe taken into account Vs the overall benefit. As I said, not ad infinitum but certainly in their first 2/3 years.
Protection from relegation like Catalans is sensible but maybe even more allowances as it’s such a new area. 
 

I do understand that you aren’t one of the people who can’t wait to see Toronto fail though. 

I'm not sure it needs more than a cap adjustment and protection from relegation at this stage tbh. 

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure it needs more than a cap adjustment and protection from relegation at this stage tbh. 

No, neither am I if I’m honest. But if anything pops up.....

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16 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Forget the other clubs comparison, this could be sensational for SL if it comes off (and RL as a result). SL should do what it takes to help them in these early years.

SL clubs thinking of the bigger picture,will never happen.

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4 hours ago, Oxford said:

Got to say I do find it rather sad that one Dave, a game of TGG down the road and  we CBA, no use complaining anymore about empty stadia, and holes in the crowds at finals or for internationals then is it?

Why Oxy, could it be that people are not flushed with money and prioritise their spending on watching their own clubs.

I live 10 miles away, and I can easily afford to go the HJ but won't do, but that is out of preference. Albeit, I journeyed to NZ for the GB series.

I could turn it around on you and ask do you go to International games? can you afford to? It is up to the individuals preference.

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2 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

SL clubs thinking of the bigger picture,will never happen.

The divvying up of Bradfords SL money (and Toronto’s) suggests you’re right.

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4 hours ago, Mattrhino said:

I don't think there squad managment has been bad, I think they have goals they want achieve and getting 30 journeymen to finish 10th is what they are looking to achieve. 

I think the betted on SL giving them a little slack as anyone can see they are at a disadvantage because they don't have 5 or so good youth players on 10k a year. 

It really is bad managment by SL because it is a not a good look if a club in your Premier competition is unable to field a full match day squad. 

Brian McDermott stated quite catagorically in the interview played last night that he believes a "weighting" system should be in place for Toronto to entice player's, what is alarming is those thoughts are based not theoretically but with experience of his time with the Harlequins from 2006 to 2010, those rules have not changed.

Did it not occur to him and Nobby that they should cut their cloth to suit, or were they  expecting that the SL should about turn and change the ruling for them? I didn't hear any complaints from the Bronco's last term, had they been allowed a dispensation could they have maintained SL status, affording it is a other question, it wasn't there for them to utilise.

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4 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

This is gonna get really embarrassing very quickly when the shiny new trans Atlantic Super League club with SBW can't field a full team!! English rugby league is amateur hour. It'll be a farce - an absolute indictment on English administrators - if Toronto aren't given dispensation to which they're entitled, based on cost of living and other salary cap dispensation they can't access as a new expansion club. 

See above.

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3 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

This is gonna get really embarrassing very quickly when the shiny new trans Atlantic Super League club with SBW can't field a full team!! English rugby league is amateur hour. It'll be a farce - an absolute indictment on English administrators - if Toronto aren't given dispensation to which they're entitled, based on cost of living and other salary cap dispensation they can't access as a new expansion club. 

To be fair I am not sure you can use the cost of living as a reason ala London.  After all they live in the North West of England for 9 months of the year.  Your point on salary cap dispensation they can't access does however cary some weight, but I would imagine that would be no more than 100K, 2 or 3 players maybe.  Do they have more players out on loan other than Greg Worthington? Are they out on loan due to the shockingly managed salary cap.  They cannot convince me they were unaware of these possible issues 3 or 4 months ago, yet they only decide to start shouting now.  How has it taken them 4 months to sort out Chase Stanleys isues, because thats how long they wold have known it needed to be sorted

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Here we go again .....

 

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4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Brian McDermott stated quite catagorically in the interview played last night that he believes a "weighting" system should be in place for Toronto to entice player's, what is alarming is those thoughts are based not theoretically but with experience of his time with the Harlequins from 2006 to 2010, those rules have not changed.

Did it not occur to him and Nobby that they should cut their cloth to suit, or were they  expecting that the SL should about turn and change the ruling for them? I didn't hear any complaints from the Bronco's last term, had they been allowed a dispensation could they have maintained SL status, affording it is a other question, it wasn't there for them to utilise.

London Broncos have a weighting. 

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57 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Like last season’s Grand Final runners up,both Hull teams and most of the Championship:League 1 teams.

Hull have a 32 man first team, a reserves side, academy sides at both u18 and u16 level, a women's team and a wheelchair team. Don't know about Rovers but I guess they must have an academy seen as we beat them in a friendly a couple of weeks back. 

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4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

Did it not occur to him and Nobby that they should cut their cloth to suit, or were they  expecting that the SL should about turn and change the ruling for them? I didn't hear any complaints from the Bronco's last term, had they been allowed a dispensation could they have maintained SL status, affording it is a other question, it wasn't there for them to utilise.

Yes, SL should absolutely change the ruling to benefit them. Do what it takes.

Also....
You’re arguing that London could have survived if they had money that they didn’t have? That’s a bit random, unless you’re arguing such a rule should be in place for certain teams? 

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

The majority of Saints fans don't bother with away games.

Mornig David, My expierience does not agree with that statement, when my club were in SL in '17 by far the biggest travelling support was St Helens, it eclipsed both our other to closer neighbours in Warrington and Wigan substantially. I would say there was not far short of 3,000 Saints fans whilst the other two struggled to get over 1,000.

And we won all three games.

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26 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It is up to the individuals preference.

This was covered in what I said Harry. Don't make out like I was trying to make it compulsory, that's just silly. But of all things if you can, and live nearby of all things and love TGG why wouldn't you be tempted to go? You don't need to respond to this though cos I don't want to spend all morning going round the houses about ability and choice when I've made it obvious from the get go.


 

 

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