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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread


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10 hours ago, Big Picture said:

It's good for the whole game in a few ways.

First as burnleywelsh pointed out it creates additional opportunities for players to play the game professionally, as other players come in and take up the spaces they vacated at their former clubs.  More current players will stay in the game as a consequence.

Second and more important though, it's the key to stopping the decline in the player pool and then growing the pool back up again.  That will result from more boys and young men (both over here and back in the UK) being inspired to take up the game in the first place and then stick with it because it shows them that the game is a bigger deal than they'd have thought it was otherwise.

Third, as it raises the game's profile it will start to break down the stereotypes about it being small time, regional and having limited appeal, a necessary step to get more and better media coverage and more money from broadcasters and sponsors.

You really have no idea how the community game works over here do you, plonking clubs on the other side of the Atlantic is not going to improve in producing player's for which any numberr of NA clubs will be so reliant on for years and years to come it needs a good dose of looking at, it requires a different radical approach of investment guidence and management. It is in the truest sense of the word a collective of a number of individual entities governed by amatuers and volunteers at each club brought together by a league system at different age levels.

And you say over there, please explain to me how kids and young men are going to be introduced to the game with nowhere to play and no one to play against, it ain't just about cobbling a few teams together, there has to be a clearly defined path of excellence within a large number of clubs that the better guy's can travel along.

Edited by Harry Stottle
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4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You really have no idea how the community game works over here do you, plonking clubs on the other side of the Atlantic is not going to improve in producing player's for which any numberr of NA clubs will be so reliant on for years and years to come it needs a good dose of looking at it requires a different radical approach of investment guidence and management. It is in the truest sense of the word a collective of a number of individual entities governed by amatuers and volunteers at each club brought together by a league system at different age levels.

And you say over there, please explain to me how kids and young men are going to be introduced to the game with nowhere to play and no one to play against, it ain't just about cobbling a few teams together, there has to be a clearly defined path of excellence the better guy's can travel along.

Harry we've had this debate before that bigger profile and bigger interest helps the game over here. Kids tend to think "I want to be x" when they start playing or getting an interest in the game and having clubs that attract the media attention helps raise the chances of that happening. Its putting the opportunities of playing RL on another level. I agree there needs to be more done with the community game but having an increased interest in the sport more broadly surely helps?

In Canada and the USA its not up to the Wolfpack to set up these structures, though it is in their interests. Given time you'd hope there would be some synergy but given how you pointed out the difficulties with the decades old community game over here expecting the same there after less than 5 years of the Wolfpack is unrealistic at best.

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6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Harry we've had this debate before that bigger profile and bigger interest helps the game over here. Kids tend to think "I want to be x" when they start playing or getting an interest in the game and having clubs that attract the media attention helps raise the chances of that happening. Its putting the opportunities of playing RL on another level. I agree there needs to be more done with the community game but having an increased interest in the sport more broadly surely helps?

In Canada and the USA its not up to the Wolfpack to set up these structures, though it is in their interests. Given time you'd hope there would be some synergy but given how you pointed out the difficulties with the decades old community game over here expecting the same there after less than 5 years of the Wolfpack is unrealistic at best.

Nobody has suggested five years , except Mr Perez actually , what Harry , myself and others have queired is just how many other non player producing areas we can support without diluting the pool ?

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6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Nobody has suggested five years , except Mr Perez actually , what Harry , myself and others have queired is just how many other non player producing areas we can support without diluting the pool ?

I see it as giving opportunities. Is becoming a pro league player attractive enough? Is a relatively low salary for most and unknown status enough to ward off beers, women, nights out, a decent career/profession.

We keep getting told by players leaving to Union they go for exposure, international seen which generates the £££.

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2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Not me if that comment is aimed in my direction, I actually think it is a very positve move in getting shut of Noble - no way has he just walked without a shove in the right direction -, he was OK in his role of DoR amassing player's paying top dollar to win promotion twice, but TWP had a five year plan and had that been performed to the letter they would have entered SL in a much better and prepared shape to contest in that league, you all started shouting look how good we are, we have acheived our goal in 3 years, well bad management has put the club where it finds itself now, struggling and that is down to Noble, he talks a good game, but he can't walk the walk he has been fortunate throughout his carrear from inheriting a team from Matthew Elliot, making a shambles of his Gt Britain stewardship, Wigan saw through him soon enough, he made a mess of both North Wales and Salford and now TWP.

Somebody will give him a job somewhere, but he will get found out again.

Don't be so paranoid Harry!~

I wish Nobby all the best as he moves onwards and upwards in RL...as for the problems you point out...well there are not major problems at TWP at all, rather just a few short term growing pains which have been blown out of proportion.

All is well on this side of the Atlantic with the Wolfpack.

"Run With The Pack Harry!"

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1 minute ago, Kayakman said:

Don't be so paranoid Harry!~

I wish Nobby all the best as he moves onwards and upwards in RL...as for the problems you point out...well there are not major problems at TWP at all, rather just a few short term growing pains which have been blown out of proportion.

All is well on this side of the Atlantic with the Wolfpack.

"Run With The Pack Harry!"

We will see friend, anyway I hope the new Frenchie trialist you have comes up to scratch and he can go forward and make a living from the game that is whether he proves himself good enough for Toronto or his future lies elsewhere ?

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1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

We will see friend, anyway I hope the new Frenchie trialist you have comes up to scratch and he can go forward and make a living from the game that is whether he proves himself good enough for Toronto or his future lies elsewhere ?

He will do well...don't worry...it will all work out in the end Harry.  Leigh will be back in SL again!

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1 minute ago, Kayakman said:

He will do well...don't worry...it will all work out in the end Harry.  Leigh will be back in SL again!

Maybe, but I was hoping to be playing you again next season, one of us is going to be dissapointed, as the leagues stand at the moment we find ourselves next to each other.

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1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Maybe, but I was hoping to be playing you again next season, one of us is going to be dissapointed, as the leagues stand at the moment we find ourselves next to each other.

You will be playing us next year Harry...don't fret.

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2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Nobody has suggested five years , except Mr Perez actually , what Harry , myself and others have queired is just how many other non player producing areas we can support without diluting the pool ?

Depends on how you view the pool I suppose, also depends how the money saved by TWP not getting their share of SL funding is spent. 

What I think we all agree on is that the pool needs expanding (or at least being less vulnerable due to its concentration) and having a broader base for the sport is essential for that.

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7 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Who, but new clubs in new areas expands that pool?

The likes of Leigh or Halifax would just be taking the 4th or 5th choice (at best) youngsters from the same areas.

If we.are going to insist on the player pool being a consideration for toronto then it is for everyone and that would mean there are only 3 clubs in with a shout of joining SL, Toulouse, newcastle and london. Everyone else will dilute the pool 

 

I don't disagree. Its very often a case of people in Glass houses.

The game here in England is vulnerable whilst it is concentrated - particularly at the amateur and youth level.

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30 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

If I were to say that we should only have big teams in SL you would tell us that we would only have 6 or 7 clubs. 

If we only have player producing clubs that figure would only slightly higher. 

If not producing players is a reason to exclude Toronto it's even more of a reason to exclude Leigh or halifax or batley etc. 

Where have I said Toronto should be excluded ?

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33 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Depends on how you view the pool I suppose, also depends how the money saved by TWP not getting their share of SL funding is spent. 

What I think we all agree on is that the pool needs expanding (or at least being less vulnerable due to its concentration) and having a broader base for the sport is essential for that.

Agree , and why they haven't received the central funding is appalling 

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33 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Who, but new clubs in new areas expands that pool?

The likes of Leigh or Halifax would just be taking the 4th or 5th choice (at best) youngsters from the same areas.

If we.are going to insist on the player pool being a consideration for toronto then it is for everyone and that would mean there are only 3 clubs in with a shout of joining SL, Toulouse, newcastle and london. Everyone else will dilute the pool 

 

You confuse clubs with area's , again , as you always do when petty point scoring , grow up and join the debate or don't even bother 

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Agree , and why they haven't received the central funding is appalling 

Its combining long and short terms aims I guess. 

If the funding is being used centrally by SL to produce a lot of this fresh new content and branding (which is clearly designed with a younger audience in mind) at least I can see its being put to good use, rather than being divvied out to the other clubs.

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9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its combining long and short terms aims I guess. 

If the funding is being used centrally by SL to produce a lot of this fresh new content and branding (which is clearly designed with a younger audience in mind) at least I can see its being put to good use, rather than being divvied out to the other clubs.

The challenge is that this isn't what the central distribution had been budgeted for. 

In the last TV deal it was agreed that each SL club would get £1.8m (for arguments sake). So 11 x UK clubs, equals £19.8m per year of TV money being invested in UK RL. The clubs aren't pilfering this money away, nobody is making money from RL. 

Once we end up with another overseas team, we then route £1.8m of that money outside of UK RL. That needs to be agreed. I have no issues with the decision being that in this round of TV deal the budgeted £19.8m per year will continue. 

People need to be very careful what they are arguing for - if TWP are in SL for 10 years, and the TV money stays the same, the argument is for the UK game to invest almost £20m over a 10 year period into Canada RL. Before TWP were mentioned I don't think anybody thought that was a good idea. 

I'm not sure why there is a belief that giving the money to TWP would be great and the right thing to do, and that the money going to the 11 existing clubs would be wasted and not deliver any benefits for the game in this country. Maybe this additional £120k or so will deliver more marketing, player development etc. 

We really need to get away from this "heartland = bad" narrative that is being created. It is no more backward than "expansion = bad". That point isn't aimed at you personally by the way Tommy.

Edited by Dave T
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2 hours ago, Robin Evans said:

Leigh are my favs this year. They're on fire atm.....

Main challengers not as convincing just yet. Too early to speculate who they will replace

London Broncos are coming back. Danny Ward has the secret formula.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The challenge is that this isn't what the central distribution had been budgeted for. 

In the last TV deal it was agreed that each SL club would get £1.8m (for arguments sake). So 11 x UK clubs, equals £19.8m per year of TV money being invested in UK RL. The clubs aren't pilfering this money away, nobody is making money from RL. 

Once we end up with another overseas team, we then route £1.8m of that money outside of UK RL. That needs to be agreed. I have no issues with the decision being that in this round of TV deal the budgeted £19.8m per year will continue. 

People need to be very careful what they are arguing for - if TWP are in SL for 10 years, and the TV money stays the same, the argument is for the UK game to invest almost £20m over a 10 year period into Canada RL. Before TWP were mentioned I don't think anybody thought that was a good idea. 

I'm not sure why there is a belief that giving the money to TWP would be great and the right thing to do, and that the money going to the 11 existing clubs would be wasted and not deliver any benefits for the game in this country. Maybe this additional £120k or so will deliver more marketing, player development etc. 

We really need to get away from this "heartland = bad" narrative that is being created. It is no more backward than "expansion = bad". That point isn't aimed at you personally by the way Tommy.

I don't disagree Dave, such a dichotomy is unhelpful and not really necessary in many respects. 

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