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1 hour ago, gazza77 said:

I'm sure some would. I'm not stupid enough to believe their won't be a mix of opinions amongst ex-NHS employees. I've yet to see any statement from a government official however that reflects the reality that they need to pursuade and ask nicely, rather than just make statements that just appear to glibly assume it's a magic solution to solving the staffing shortfall. 

The experience so far is that once you get over 60, the chance of death rapidly increases with this. Why would any retired clinician put themselves at risk with out of date skills, new equipment and process?

Some will, but it’s a huge risk. 

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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12 minutes ago, ckn said:

The experience so far is that once you get over 60, the chance of death rapidly increases with this. Why would any retired clinician put themselves at risk with out of date skills, new equipment and process?

Some will, but it’s a huge risk. 

Last I heard, it was unclear whether that was age (i.e. weakened immune system) or the greater likelihood of other conditions. Of course, while it is not know, it is still a danger.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Italy goes on nationwide lockdown. 

According to someone I know in the know, this is caused by someone leaking the plan to seal off the tough areas of the North and people fleeing the area. Someone needs to go to jail for a long time. 

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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1 hour ago, M j M said:

If the government foresees a time when that will be necessary they should do it now rather than delay.

Rather than come out with the absolute bull**** deflection they did about Italy taking populist action.

According to the scientists, do it too early and all you do is keep people with colds at home and then just as they are returning the peak of Covid 19 arrives.  It's all about timing as far as I understand.

No idea what you're on about in your second paragraph.  I haven't come across any reference to Italy taking populist action.  I don't even know what that means in this context.

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Had an IAM committee meeting tonight in the Community Meeting Room at Morrisons in Spalding. (It's free to use and biscuits, tea, coffee provided free, too.) 

On departure, noticed a huge pile of brand new toilet rolls in the entrance. Clearly no shortage.

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1 hour ago, Mark S said:

Unpopular opinion: If you are told to self isolate the government should underwrite your FULL salary. It can come from the Trident budget.

i would say a better (more populist) policy would be to say all ) hours contract workers should be paid the average number of hours worked over the past 10 weeks from govt funds on proviso they do 0 hours and self isolate. I do worry about people hiding at home ad ordering take out food only for that to be cycled over by Typhoid Mary

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Apparently, the UK is mirroring Italy's number of those with cv, so are the US, Germany and Spain. Japan is the only outlier. as it hasn't been testing at the same levels.

Germany and France are 9 days behind Italy, Spain 10.5 days, US 11.5 days and UK 13.5 days

How long have Italy had the lockdown in the north, now extended to all Italy?

Italy's lockdown hasn't contained it as they have 9172 cases of cv with 463 fatalities - a 5% fatality rate which is higher than a lot of other projections. The UK can't be far off taking more substantive action?

I predict a greater rise in cases in the US and then Trump will re-classify them as flu so as not to harm his numbers

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11 minutes ago, shaun mc said:

Apparently, the UK is mirroring Italy's number of those with cv, so are the US, Germany and Spain. Japan is the only outlier. as it hasn't been testing at the same levels.

Germany and France are 9 days behind Italy, Spain 10.5 days, US 11.5 days and UK 13.5 days

How long have Italy had the lockdown in the north, now extended to all Italy?

Italy's lockdown hasn't contained it as they have 9172 cases of cv with 463 fatalities - a 5% fatality rate which is higher than a lot of other projections. The UK can't be far off taking more substantive action?

I predict a greater rise in cases in the US and then Trump will re-classify them as flu so as not to harm his numbers

I saw those graphs yesterday, quite telling really and it makes the government’s “we’ll wait and see” plan look a bit flimsy.

Italy has a far higher proportion of older folk than China, that may be the reason for the increased deaths.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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Also:

In China, their plans were brutally enforced by military grade “do as you’re damn well told”. None of this social media imbecility around “flu kills more!”

For us, it may hit harder because of petty Little Englander racism like this:

People like Hodges, who some see as fairly mainstream in views and with 130k followers, dismissing Italian lessons out of hand despite clear evidence that we may be following them on the statistics.

Why not just play a bit more safely, stop massed gatherings now and then if it fizzles out due to good early interventions we may not need to escalate to Italy-like plans. Remember, Italy jumped straight in with whole town isolations, it didn’t work, then whole north isolations, albeit that one didn’t work because of someone leaking it to the media to make themselves look important.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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I can never understood the logic of wait and see and we'll do x, y and z in 5-10 days. We can see what way this is going, what the trends are and what has happened/is happening in Italy. Therefore just do these things now instead of waiting 10 days when things will be far worse.

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2 hours ago, Mark S said:

Unpopular opinion: If you are told to self isolate the government should underwrite your FULL salary. It can come from the Trident budget.

Unpopular opinion, and one for the political sub forum, is it not. 

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The BBC chose to have Nigel Farage on Newsnight to comment/advise on coronavirus

No wonder the BBC is getting the flack it does when the standard of news reporting is the above

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6 minutes ago, Damien said:

I can never understood the logic of wait and see and we'll do x, y and z in 5-10 days. We can see what way this is going, what the trends are and what has happened/is happening in Italy. Therefore just do these things now instead of waiting 10 days when things will be far worse.

The view is that the population are a bit thick, will get bored after 10 minutes of even minor isolation and start ignoring advice as long as they’re fine. I get their point, it’s a proper “ready, aim, fire” plan, where as if we launch now it risks “ready, fire, aim”.

I apparently have more hope in the country than our politicians and think we should be ramping things up now, trusting the country to not be imbeciles.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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15 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Unpopular opinion, and one for the political sub forum, is it not. 

I’ll start a politics thread as some people really want to let rip on it. Let’s try to keep this thread politics free.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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I agree on your post about isolation, but it only takes a few to act as if it does not apply to them for it not to work.

Tough decision to cancel something if you know your insurance won't pay out, but that is people putting themselves before the fate of the elderly (me) with underlying health conditions (me again!) .Next door neighbours on both sides are older than me and in worse health then me, as in fact, are most of the residents of my town.

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28 minutes ago, ckn said:

The view is that the population are a bit thick, will get bored after 10 minutes of even minor isolation and start ignoring advice as long as they’re fine. I get their point, it’s a proper “ready, aim, fire” plan, where as if we launch now it risks “ready, fire, aim”.

I apparently have more hope in the country than our politicians and think we should be ramping things up now, trusting the country to not be imbeciles.

Have you seen the state of the toilet paper shelves in your local supermarket?

The country that had people phoning the police when KFC ran out of chicken and hounded a Paediatrician out of her house?

Good luck with that. 

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5 minutes ago, Shadow said:

Have you seen the state of the toilet paper shelves in your local supermarket?

The country that had people phoning the police when KFC ran out of chicken and hounded a Paediatrician out of her house?

Good luck with that. 

A sad state of affairs that we’d need near martial law to get people to act responsibly. 

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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1 hour ago, SSoutherner said:

i would say a better (more populist) policy would be to say all ) hours contract workers should be paid the average number of hours worked over the past 10 weeks from govt funds on proviso they do 0 hours and self isolate. I do worry about people hiding at home ad ordering take out food only for that to be cycled over by Typhoid Mary

A Tory reading that has just passed out!

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59 minutes ago, ckn said:

The view is that the population are a bit thick, will get bored after 10 minutes of even minor isolation and start ignoring advice as long as they’re fine. I get their point, it’s a proper “ready, aim, fire” plan, where as if we launch now it risks “ready, fire, aim”.

I apparently have more hope in the country than our politicians and think we should be ramping things up now, trusting the country to not be imbeciles.

I can sort of see that but I think with some things like home working they can be much firmer instead of all the vague advice and talk of what we may do in a few days. There are literally thousands in my place that could work from home permanently to help stop the spread etc. Most do at 2 days a week anyway. All these organisations who are now saying to work from home because someone has got coronavirus, why not just start now where they can?

Yesterday there were people with colds in work saying it's just a cold, it's just madness when a big employer could easily just extend any current flexible working policies that they have, and would if the government made that call. Until it comes at that level then individual managers are reluctant to. 

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14 minutes ago, Mark S said:

A Tory reading that has just passed out!

Yes and in many ways i would agree if you are on a zero hours contract then you are due nothing 

BUT

the cost to the govt/NHS of the consequences of a deliveroo worker giving it to a bunch of people with their food and also maybe tghe takeway workers who then give it to others is MUCH higher than the cost of paying that rider to sit at home

I am looking at this form an ecconomics not humanitarian viewpoint

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8 minutes ago, Damien said:

I can sort of see that but I think with some things like home working they can be much firmer. Instead of all the vague advice they could be much firmer. There are literally thousands in my place that could work from home permanently to help stop the spread etc. Most do at 2 days a week anyway.

Yesterday there were people with colds in work saying it's just a cold, it's just madness when a big employer could easily just extend any current flexible working policies that they have, and would if the government made that call. Until it comes at that level then individual managers are reluctant to. 

There's nothing so dangerous to office morale than a middle-manager who wants to be seen to be "doing something" but without the competence to understand what that actually means.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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3 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

Yes and in many ways i would agree if you are on a zero hours contract then you are due nothing 

BUT

the cost to the govt/NHS of the consequences of a deliveroo worker giving it to a bunch of people with their food and also maybe tghe takeway workers who then give it to others is MUCH higher than the cost of paying that rider to sit at home

I am looking at this form an ecconomics not humanitarian viewpoint

Not here please.  Political complications on the politics thread please.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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