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4 hours ago, redjonn said:

Must admit it is a dilemma for myself and missus as we are in similar boat.

The kids are all badgering us to isolate ourselves, not go out , etc... We went out yesterday for lunch being circumvent about proximity as much as possible... for what "me missus" said may be our last outing.. actually she said "last supper" out but then realised the full context of that comment...(we did chuckle although we realise seriousness of it all).   Anyway the kids have all been on the phone or calling around to tell us off and insist we stay in the house.

Now when you say well how long as this could last months and months and even when we get through the peak we can still catch it so our we talking 1/2 a year, a year... how do you think we could cope with that.... they went silent then...

My parent is in her 80s.  She went to church this morning, as she does every Sunday morning.  She was greeted by one of the young people offering her hand sanitiser and the same was done as she exited the church.  Drinking wine during communion was out but taking the bread was still in.  My Mum opted not to take communion at all and she sat in a pew away from others.  The peace was not offered (that usually involves a handshake or a hug) other than as a nod to each other.  She chatted with her friends afterwards but they kept their distance from each other.

To my mind, the paragraph above describes what needs to be happening now, no matter where you go.  Give space, don't touch, respect one another's need for safety but don't isolate yourself until it becomes so very obvious that not to do so will risk lives.  We aren't there yet - and here's hoping we never will be (but we are likely to be at some point, alas).  The government appears to be encouraging this same approach, taking care of people's physical safety but also acknowledging the huge risks of isolation especially to older folk and so reticent to push self-isolation until absolutely necessary.

My parent was a child through the second world war.  Folks of that age range have a resilience that I truly admire, and learn from.

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1 hour ago, JohnM said:

Is that a fact? The sensationalism from the media is beyond belief, even allowing for the ignorance and stupidity that is their watchword. 

There's undoubtedly rogue elements in the government who simply cannot park their egos long enough to not leak at a second's notice. Unless it comes from a named government advisor, or is on the NHS/PHE websites, then it should be treated as idle gossip rather than being front-page/headline news

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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Been into a Sainsbury's Local just now. No bog rolls but loads of other stuff as per normal.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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2 hours ago, redjonn said:

what annoys me as much as anything is the news.. well some reporters.

we have the UK Government and expert advisory over last day or two making statements that we are not using herd immunity as part of the plan. Although we expect it to flow through the population such that herd immunity may be a factor. That is it may well happen given numbers of people that will get the virus but its not a deliberate plan but a by-product.

Yet I read a BBC reporter saying we have different and opposing approaches... UK using herd immunity and xyz country not but restricting movement.

The plans here include restricting movement, all-be-it timing is considered critical and hence why its coming, maybe sooner than later... that is its part of the plan that we will have similar lock downs and restrictions.  To repeat timing being a factor... but the same restrictions are part of the plan and may well be introduced...... That is quite similar to other country plans but which some countries have already introduced.

Yet we have the reporter miss reporting, not being specific with his wording... no wonder we have anxiety and doubts spreading across population.

On the other hand Sky interesting discussion with a Prof Peter Openshaw (Imperial college expert in disease - not sure exactly what).... he also commented it was too early to say if China reductions would remain once they lessen closures and lock downs)... hence hard to use as definitive proof, etc

Anyway I often hear news reporters or on-site correspondents giving inaccurate or not full and precise communication... this on many issues and of course even more important on this..

anyway rant over... but wish the news editors would insist that reporters give accurate and precise info,  rather than try and create argumentative interest.

This with the addition that newspapers would also tone down the click baiting headlines 

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14 minutes ago, ckn said:

There's undoubtedly rogue elements in the government who simply cannot park their egos long enough to not leak at a second's notice. Unless it comes from a named government advisor, or is on the NHS/PHE websites, then it should be treated as idle gossip rather than being front-page/headline news

By Government I assume you mean Ministers, Advisers and Civil Servants?

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10 minutes ago, LeeF said:

By Government I assume you mean Ministers, Advisers and Civil Servants?

If you're trusted with stuff that's graded as a national secret and you betray that secret for your own ego then you should suffer the consequences, starting with an immediate booting out the door awaiting a criminal trial.

Unfortunately, the Gavin Williamson debacle set the benchmark for this sort of thing.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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1 minute ago, Saintslass said:

I think the FCO should simply say 'avoid all but essential travel anywhere in the world' and get it over with!

The problem is, and again I agree with the government stance, it's a bit pointless if every area is infected, just lock off the really nasty bits of high infection like Italy, Spain and now the US.

And the economic damage is massive, the loss of UK-US flights will probably end British Airways.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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1 hour ago, ckn said:

There's undoubtedly rogue elements in the government who simply cannot park their egos long enough to not leak at a second's notice. Unless it comes from a named government advisor, or is on the NHS/PHE websites, then it should be treated as idle gossip rather than being front-page/headline news

Given Jeremy Hunt's willingness to question the government's approach on TV, I wouldn't be surprised if he's behind the 'leak'.

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1 minute ago, ckn said:

The problem is, and again I agree with the government stance, it's a bit pointless if every area is infected, just lock off the really nasty bits of high infection like Italy, Spain and now the US.

And the economic damage is massive, the loss of UK-US flights will probably end British Airways.

I agree.  

I can't see how we will recover from this.  

 

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Slightly off topic had to take my mum 85 to the local a & e this afternoon  with a bad nose bleed.Amazingly A & E virtually deserted . Finally got bleeding stopped ,then when they were about to discharge  her ,when she rose bleeding has started again. They want to discharge her as this is this hospital is the coronavirus centre in Belfast

Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor but because we cannot satisfy the rich.

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18 minutes ago, ckn said:

 

See also - all the supply chain to airlines, plus airports, aiport shops, suppliers to the airports....

 

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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At least somebody's remaining blithely optimistic in the face of adversity.

 

2020-03-15 18_45_06-Window.png

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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2 minutes ago, tim2 said:

See also - all the supply chain to airlines, plus airports, aiport shops, suppliers to the airports....

 

This is genuinely the first time it's hit home that this is going to be financially worse than 2008. Largely, in 2008, we could print money as a way to stop the bleeding in the immediate crisis. You can't stop this virus anytime soon.

I'll be looking at the politics thread for examples of leadership in this time of crisis.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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1 minute ago, ckn said:

This is genuinely the first time it's hit home that this is going to be financially worse than 2008. Largely, in 2008, we could print money as a way to stop the bleeding in the immediate crisis. You can't stop this virus anytime soon.

I'll be looking at the politics thread for examples of leadership in this time of crisis.

Hence the harsh decision about immediate lives lost versus financial disaster. Because of SARS, MERS, Bird Flu etc. the Far east seems better prepared. We are like a combo of a headless chicken and a rabbit in the headlights.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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5 hours ago, Johnoco said:

Bit of a hypothetical devils advocate question here.

Assuming you’re otherwise fit and healthy, might it be worth it to go out of your way to get it sooner rather than later?

It is very hypothetical. It would be reassuring to know when you have it, isolate for that period and then be fine. But, how will you know? Even if you get a nasty cough.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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1 hour ago, ckn said:

 

That is the main flag carrier for Denmark, Sweden and Norway. They have their own terminal 3 at Copenhagen airport. That is a big deal.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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1 hour ago, tim2 said:

See also - all the supply chain to airlines, plus airports, aiport shops, suppliers to the airports....

 

1 hour ago, ckn said:

This is genuinely the first time it's hit home that this is going to be financially worse than 2008. Largely, in 2008, we could print money as a way to stop the bleeding in the immediate crisis. You can't stop this virus anytime soon.

I'll be looking at the politics thread for examples of leadership in this time of crisis.

The last recession, the service industry stayed open and China carried on producing cheap goods.  Printing money might help the financial industry but without people spending this will be worse.  

With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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Now off the cruise ship. This time of year, it’s an old crowd. The “announcement” today has spooked a lot of the over 70s. Genuinely shaken. And not just in the “had to have another free rum” sort of way. I think it’s brought home that not only is coronavirus not going away but that they are directly in the firing line. For me, Mrs Ginger has severe breathing issues so we may be younger but no less worried.

Tremendous holiday though. And the last one possible. The flight out to join the boat today was empty of passengers as their holidays have been cancelled.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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