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4 hours ago, Saintslass said:

According to a GP on TV this morning, there are hardly any cases of flu in the UK at the moment so he said that medical professionals are treating everything non-sniffly as Covid 19.

Yeah the overlap seems to be substantial and as we are working with self isolation it's safer to just believe you have Covid 19 whether you do or not. 

Where it's difficult is that these cases are obviously not being logged as anything, as they only go to the numbers when tested. 

The bit I would question with his assertion is that there are tens of thousands of people who had a negative test, but must have had some symptoms., wouldn't some of them be normal flu, or does this test rule that out? 

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17 minutes ago, LeeF said:

By definition the rise in deaths seen today relate to what people did 2 weeks or more ago.

Sobering thought for those who have continued to ignore all the guidance, instruction and common sense

Like go to Cheltenham ..

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yeah the overlap seems to be substantial and as we are working with self isolation it's safer to just believe you have Covid 19 whether you do or not. 

Where it's difficult is that these cases are obviously not being logged as anything, as they only go to the numbers when tested. 

The bit I would question with his assertion is that there are tens of thousands of people who had a negative test, but must have had some symptoms., wouldn't some of them be normal flu, or does this test rule that out? 

This is the best advice. Concern yourself with not spreading it. That is too subtle to be the main advice, but I have certainly been using it.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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On the topic of interpretation of guidance, it can be an issue. 

The guidance states we should minimise time outside, shop as infrequently as possible for food and medicine. Now if I wanted to take a similar approach to others here I would lambast anyone who visits more than one shop a week and who doesn't visit literally the closest shop to them. 

No nuances, no ifs or buts, don't be awkward, closest shop once a week. 

But that'd be silly. 

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I know that this is not the political one but today’s Government Briefing has basically said that 20,000 (yes twenty thousand) deaths would be a success.

Maybe, just maybe that figure will sink into the brains(?) of those continuing to ignore guidance, instruction and common sense 

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3 minutes ago, LeeF said:

I know that this is not the political one but today’s Government Briefing has basically said that 20,000 (yes twenty thousand) deaths would be a success.

Maybe, just maybe that figure will sink into the brains(?) of those continuing to ignore guidance, instruction and common sense 

There are still people trying to massage the numbers. Andrew Neill was the latest last night. 

Being isolated I've found it all a bit calmer and I've backed away from much of the news, but seeing the government building temporary hospitals and mortuaries should be enough to show people that this is far from normal. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

There are still people trying to massage the numbers. Andrew Neill was the latest last night. 

Being isolated I've found it all a bit calmer and I've backed away from much of the news, but seeing the government building temporary hospitals and mortuaries should be enough to show people that this is far from normal. 

I've been less frightened of it than I should be. Not apathetic, just not overly concerned. I've done all I should to keep safe and minimise impact as much as I can.

But then it get real as it gets closer. The numbers start to fly and you know mates, family etc who have it.....

Then it really hits home.

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5 minutes ago, LeeF said:

I know that this is not the political one but today’s Government Briefing has basically said that 20,000 (yes twenty thousand) deaths would be a success.

Maybe, just maybe that figure will sink into the brains(?) of those continuing to ignore guidance, instruction and common sense 

I think the 20,000 figure 'being a good result' was first mentioned at an earlier briefing but wasn't picked up on, certainly not by those from the press asking questions, nor reported widely.

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11 minutes ago, LeeF said:

I know that this is not the political one but today’s Government Briefing has basically said that 20,000 (yes twenty thousand) deaths would be a success.

Maybe, just maybe that figure will sink into the brains(?) of those continuing to ignore guidance, instruction and common sense 

There is a huge "something's got to kill you" streak in some people that I don't get. I think the best response to such thinking comes in Support Your Local Gunfighter

"You've got to die some time."
"Yes, but the smart ones postpone it for as long as possible."

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Les Tonks,

               Here in Spain the death rate is rising rapidly.Total now near on 6000. 862 yesterday,mostly in Madrid,and the North. It has not reached the South and South East yet in huge numbers but I have no doubt it will after the huge of surge of people from Madrid and the North 2 weeks which resulted in the Province of Murcia basically shutting down immediately. Where I live the nearest seaside town is Los Alcazares which is 10 minutes away. In Winter the population is approx 7000. In the Summer months June,July, August,September the population rises to 170000. That is when the schools finish and all the holiday homes are filled to the brim.

      The Spanish are very close families and the Grandparents turn up with all their Grandchildren etc. and stay the 4 months. The fathers and Mothers come down after work on Fridays with another massive influx then go back Sunday night and that process lasts for the four months.Absolute chaos. This year it started immediately the schools closed.They came unexpectedly and emptied the supermarkets. I believe the vast majority have gone back now as the Guardia blocked the roads,enforced the lockdown which left them tied up in their houses with the kids,so decided enough is enough and got away as quick as they could.

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8 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

I've been less frightened of it than I should be. Not apathetic, just not overly concerned. I've done all I should to keep safe and minimise impact as much as I can.

But then it get real as it gets closer. The numbers start to fly and you know mates, family etc who have it.....

Then it really hits home.

I think this is one of the things. It is expected we will all know somebody who gets quite poorly with it, hopefully it won't be serious, but for quite a few it will. 

And aside from that, the economic impact will affect us all for an awful long time. 

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7 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

I think the 20,000 figure 'being a good result' was first mentioned at an earlier briefing but wasn't picked up on, certainly not by those from the press asking questions, nor reported widely.

I dunno, I've seen the 20k for a fair amount of time now. And that is one of the best results apparently. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I think this is one of the things. It is expected we will all know somebody who gets quite poorly with it, hopefully it won't be serious, but for quite a few it will. 

And aside from that, the economic impact will affect us all for an awful long time. 

The economic impact will be huge. About the only thing I agreed with in derek Beaumont's ridiculous outpourings yesterday

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4 minutes ago, fairfolly said:

Les Tonks,

               Here in Spain the death rate is rising rapidly.Total now near on 6000. 862 yesterday,mostly in Madrid,and the North. It has not reached the South and South East yet in huge numbers but I have no doubt it will after the huge of surge of people from Madrid and the North 2 weeks which resulted in the Province of Murcia basically shutting down immediately. Where I live the nearest seaside town is Los Alcazares which is 10 minutes away. In Winter the population is approx 7000. In the Summer months June,July, August,September the population rises to 170000. That is when the schools finish and all the holiday homes are filled to the brim.

      The Spanish are very close families and the Grandparents turn up with all their Grandchildren etc. and stay the 4 months. The fathers and Mothers come down after work on Fridays with another massive influx then go back Sunday night and that process lasts for the four months.Absolute chaos. This year it started immediately the schools closed.They came unexpectedly and emptied the supermarkets. I believe the vast majority have gone back now as the Guardia blocked the roads,enforced the lockdown which left them tied up in their houses with the kids,so decided enough is enough and got away as quick as they could.

Haven't you just had flooding again near Mar Menor? It's not recovered from the last Gota Fria.

We've got a place at Cabo Roig - no idea when I'll see it again.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

What's he been up to now??? 

I can't find the original link so I've copied directly from TRL.

"In my opinion this Coronavirus is being blown out of all proportion here is my advice before they close the world down and kill off lots of businesses and even countries through lack of trade it’s scaremongery arguably comparative to terrorism.

"I am told the virus has an extreme serious affect only on the weak and elderly people with low immune systems respiratory problems and severe illnesses. No more so than pneumonia that has the same risks. The death rate is allegedly around 2% of people known to have been diagnosed with it and allegedly 90% of those have been over 80 years old which would support the above synopsis. It could be argued that the 2% is higher than actual surmised as many people could have had the virus but not reported it or realised it as they are fit and healthy. After all the advice is self isolate so surely many have done that and not reported their illness. It’s the only alleged mass life threatening disease I have heard of (not that I have heard of everything) where you don’t need to go to the doctors orhospital rather just keep yourself to yourself for a fortnight. Many would refer to that as a holiday but I don’t want to make fun of a serious situation. So what is the solution. Ban travel? Cancel sporting events and use of public transport? Shut schools? Think about what this actually does! It shuts down the very existence of the human race. It will kill off businesses and livelihoods not viruses. Could even kill of countries totally dependant on travel and tourism. Take rugby league as an example if all games were played behind closed doors until further notice even without pro rata refunds in season tickets most clubs would go out of business without the income from attendees. So what is a solution? For me self preservation. Let people be accountable for their own protection. Let people decide for themselves whether to travel use public transport or attend sporting events. Let people employed in those areas decide whether to stay at home or go to work. That way THOSE who ARE at high risk can protect THEMSELVES with great ease by staying at home and those who will simply feel a bit offside like having a bad cold can carry on about their business without bringing the country to a halt causing pain and misery to far more people through financial ruin! Just my view but one that if not adopted in part or whole will see a serious affect in the world far more devastating than the virus itself. I am happy for my view to be shared by anyone who feels it ought to be  I am also aware many will shoot this down in flames. The choice is yours. The operative word is choice and that is something the scaremongering and proposed actions is removing from us all."

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I dunno, I've seen the 20k for a fair amount of time now. And that is one of the best results apparently. 

Yes, I saw it too. We're at 1000 and I expect 4-5 weeks of accelrating and then slowing death rates. Currently at 1000 deaths and 300+ a day. After 5 weeks (35 days) I would expect it, at best, to average 500 a day which takes us towards 20,000.

If it's really taken hold during all the Cheltenham / seaside /park walking shennanigans then it could be double. I think, without any measures, we'd have been staring down the barrel of a broken NHS and half a million dead.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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17 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

I've been less frightened of it than I should be. Not apathetic, just not overly concerned. I've done all I should to keep safe and minimise impact as much as I can.

But then it get real as it gets closer. The numbers start to fly and you know mates, family etc who have it.....

Then it really hits home.

So true unfortunately.

 

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10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I dunno, I've seen the 20k for a fair amount of time now. And that is one of the best results apparently. 

Of course, the 20,000 deaths would be a tragedy. It would be a death toll 0.03%. Extrapolate from that to how bad a severe impact would be and it is a huge number of lives saved. The suspension of many normal services will also have an impact in lives.  
The thing is, as we no, while we can lessen the extent of impact, a person is no less dead. 

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Tim, yes about a month ago,but this week it has rained heavily every day until today.The last time I was down on the Mar Menor was the day before the lockdown and they were really getting on with the repairs but I would assume this weeks rain has put them back to square one.Not that it really matters because you are not allowed out of your house so can not get anywhere near the coast.All beaches are cordoned off according the the local news reports.I do not know if you read my earlier posts but in your area yesterday the Local Police started stopping dog walkers,asking them where they lived,they had to show proof,and if they was 100 metres away from their homes they received a fine. I know they have upgraded the fines to 600 Euro for 1st offenders but whether that includes dog walkers I do not know.Hopefully I am wrong but I can not see you getting over here any time soon.

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5 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Of course, the 20,000 deaths would be a tragedy. It would be a death toll 0.03%. Extrapolate from that to how bad a severe impact would be and it is a huge number of lives saved. The suspension of many normal services will also have an impact in lives.  
The thing is, as we no, while we can lessen the extent of impact, a person is no less dead. 

Yes - every one of those 20,000 is a loved one, whether they were old, infirm or sick. Gone before their time.

We have a duty to minimise that, and we take a hit financially and on our lifestyles afterwards.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I haven't read the whole thread John, but I haven't seen anybody call your question racist. But I think GJ covered the fact that there has been literature in foreign languages. 

I think he was saying that at Gatwick when he landed, there was hardly anything, even in English.   

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1 minute ago, fairfolly said:

Tim, yes about a month ago,but this week it has rained heavily every day until today.The last time I was down on the Mar Menor was the day before the lockdown and they were really getting on with the repairs but I would assume this weeks rain has put them back to square one.Not that it really matters because you are not allowed out of your house so can not get anywhere near the coast.All beaches are cordoned off according the the local news reports.I do not know if you read my earlier posts but in your area yesterday the Local Police started stopping dog walkers,asking them where they lived,they had to show proof,and if they was 100 metres away from their homes they received a fine. I know they have upgraded the fines to 600 Euro for 1st offenders but whether that includes dog walkers I do not know.Hopefully I am wrong but I can not see you getting over here any time soon.

No idea when international travel will resume - some time after local restrictions are eased. Spain actually needs us to come, though. The economy will be royally screwed after this and tourists are vital to help rebuild. We can't come if it risks reinfection, though.

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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