coronavirus

[Saintslass]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Nasir Afzal , former chief prosecutor on BBC Breakfast earlier , his brother was diagnosed with covid , so started self isolation , after a week later , one morning he didn't wake up , possible heart attack compounded by covid but they aren't sure due to no post mortems being done anymore 

The Morgues are all full , so they sat in full ppe for the Muslim undertakers to arrive , originally told 6 hours , ended up being the day after due to the sheer number of bodies they are collecting 

His brothers wishes were as many request was to be returned back to Pakistan to the family grave , but that isn't going to happen as no flights , all the Muslim cemeteries over here are full , his brothers body is now in refrigerated storage till they can decide what to do with it 

Again , no lockdown or too early out and you multiply this scenario by ten , or by a hundred , or a thousand , every day 

Absolutely.  

I know that we are building temporary morgues - the one in London has been finished for a while - because our usual facilities are not set up for the intense number of deaths that can happen with this virus.  I think all councils have to allocate somewhere.  Here in St Helens our local one is Widnes ice rink.

I watched that interview too.  It is always distressing to watch people in the throes of grief.  I have mixed feelings about such interviews.  I think showing them is voyeuristic and it's the side of journalism that I find deeply distasteful.  However, the man concerned has featured regularly on BBC paper reviews and so perhaps that is why they had the interview.

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, gazza77 said:

People do die of flu & road traffic accidents everyday. What I've never seen before however is every hospital in the country having their ICU full of patients with exactly the same illness, at the same time, with many of them failing to recover. I've never seen such a huge demand increase for ICU capacity so dramatically and quickly for this reason also. It's amazing how some people seem to find the current risks so difficult to comprehend.

I also think it is fair to say that if walking alongside 1.5 ton vehicles was suggested today, and the resulting traffic accidents, it would cause outrage and overload the NHS, reasonably so. Something existing does not make it trivial. It does not justify panic or lack of balance, but the comparisons can be unhelpful.

[Saintslass]

In an attempt to lift the mood following my last post, I think this is genius:

 

[Saintslass]

30 minutes ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

Directly from my nephew who is one. in the SE London/Kent area. 
 

The fact that just one nhs worker of any grade is having to do this is a disgrace.

Not all grades of NHS worker require the same level of PPE though.  My GP friend has just received her goggles, two days ago in fact.  They already had face masks and gloves as everywhere had a stock in reserve for a flu pandemic.  But my GP friend is in a cold surgery; the hot surgeries (staffed by those medics who would usually cover out of hours services) which deal only with Covid patients have had full PPE since the service was rearranged.  These surgeries are in the north west of England and so not London.

We would all feel safer wrapped up like the staff in ICU but that doesn't mean we need to be or indeed that being so would be a wise use of what are scarce resources in this global pandemic.

[Bob8]

5 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Not all grades of NHS worker require the same level of PPE though.  My GP friend has just received her goggles, two days ago in fact.  They already had face masks and gloves as everywhere had a stock in reserve for a flu pandemic.  But my GP friend is in a cold surgery; the hot surgeries (staffed by those medics who would usually cover out of hours services) which deal only with Covid patients have had full PPE since the service was rearranged.  These surgeries are in the north west of England and so not London.

We would all feel safer wrapped up like the staff in ICU but that doesn't mean we need to be or indeed that being so would be a wise use of what are scarce resources in this global pandemic.

You are right, but I would again suggest that anyone wearing PPE for fun would soon find the novelty wears off. People are more likely to err on the side of wearing to too sparingly than not enough.

A severe flu pandemic could be far more severe, which is something we should be prepared for. It is why I am a little suprised at the shortage.

[Gray1967]

42 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Question for anyone on hetr who is qualified to answer: is a PM always carried out if the suspected cause of death is heart attack or other heart disease.?

When a resident dies for whatever reason, does  a GP have to attend a care home in person? 

Been involved in a few of these over the years and the answer is yes..a GP does have to attend.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

54 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Question for anyone on hetr who is qualified to answer: is a PM always carried out if the suspected cause of death is heart attack or other heart disease.?

When a resident dies for whatever reason, does  a GP have to attend a care home in person? 

According to the CQC a GP doesn't necessarily have to attend a death in a Care Home.

If the death is expected.

"If the death occurs in a residential or nursing home and the GP who attended the patient during the last illness is available, it is sensible for him or her to attend when practicable and issue a death certificate.

"If an 'on-call' doctor is on duty, whether in or out of hours, it is unlikely that any useful purpose will be served by that doctor attending the nursing or residential home. In such cases we recommend that the GP advises the home to contact the undertaker if they wish the body to be removed and ensures that the GP with whom the patient was registered is notified as soon as practicable."

If unexpected.

"If death occurs in the patient's home, or in a residential or nursing home, we recommend a visit by the GP with whom the patient was registered, to examine the body and confirm death, although this is not a statutory requirement.

"Unlike expected deaths, in the event of an unexpected death out-of-hours it would be helpful if an OOH GP does attend, therefore helping to prevent the potentially unnecessary attendance of the emergency services.

"The GP should then report the death to the coroner (usually through the local police).

"In any other circumstances, the request to attend is likely to have come from the police or ambulance service. It is usually wise, and especially in the case of an on-call doctor, to decline to attend and advise that the services of a Forensic Medical Examiner police surgeon be obtained by the caller."

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

Just discovered the truth.....

[BryanC]

2 hours ago, tim2 said:

Explain to BryanC why "just getting out there and letting herd immunity deal with it and that we're all snowflakes" is wrong.

Quotes from NHS announcement "A further 823 people have died in hospital in England after testing positive for coronavirus, NHS England said on Saturday."

"...33 had no known underlying health conditions"

That doesn't in any way, shape or form report that the virus was cause of death for at least 790 of these unlucky people (which is nearly 96%).

As a dyed in the wool betting man, I'm pretty sure that the odds are vastly in my favour that I'm correct.

Go on, tell me otherwise.

 

 

[Bob8]

Just now, BryanC said:

Quotes from NHS announcement "A further 823 people have died in hospital in England after testing positive for coronavirus, NHS England said on Saturday."

"...33 had no known underlying health conditions"

That doesn't in any way, shape or form report that the virus was cause of death for at least 790 of these unlucky people (which is nearly 96%).

As a dyed in the wool betting man, I'm pretty sure that the odds are vastly in my favour that I'm correct.

Go on, tell me otherwise.

We are not here to tell you things.

I am sure that when the time is right you will accept the love of your fellow man.

[Saintslass]

Here is that breakdown of the NHS England figures for today.  Once again, the bulk of the number weren't actually confirmed yesterday but over the previous ten days.  I do wish the BBC, etc, would pass on this breakdown as it would help people understand the actual situation in our hospitals.  It would be possible to see a clearer picture of the pattern if figures were readjusted to take into account the delays in confirming deaths IMO.

Another 823 deaths in England bring death toll to 8,937

NHS England said a further 823 people have died in hospital in England after testing positive for coronavirus, including an 11-year-old child, bringing the death toll there to 8,937.

The patients were aged between 11 and 102 years old and 33 of the 823 patients (aged between 29 and 94 years old) had no known underlying health condition.

Of the 823 new hospital deaths announced today by NHS England, 115 occurred on 10 April while 695 took place between 1-9 April.

The remaining 12 deaths occurred in March, with the earliest new death taking place on 25 March.

Taken from the Guardian rolling news page

 

[graveyard johnny]

12 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Just discovered the truth.....

no wonder this guy got the sack from his job at pc world!

[bobbruce]

2 hours ago, JohnM said:

Question for anyone on hetr who is qualified to answer: is a PM always carried out if the suspected cause of death is heart attack or other heart disease.?

When a resident dies for whatever reason, does  a GP have to attend a care home in person? 

My dad drives the on call doctor about as the calls come in the doctor will decide if he either needs to go out, tell them to see there own GP in the morning or call an ambulance. The only time they absolutely have to go out is if someone’s died. 

[BryanC]

13 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

We are not here to tell you things.

I am sure that when the time is right you will accept the love of your fellow man.

So. No "expert" rejoinder then, eh?

I doubt it Bob, I'm not that keen on people, me. Can't see that changing anytime soon.

[BryanC]

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Clueless idiot 

What a witty, eloquent, intelligent response.

I'm not going to take the bait and descend to your level of pathetic, childish name calling.

I could.

But I won't.

 

[ckn]

2 hours ago, Bob8 said:

You are right, but I would again suggest that anyone wearing PPE for fun would soon find the novelty wears off. People are more likely to err on the side of wearing to too sparingly than not enough.

A severe flu pandemic could be far more severe, which is something we should be prepared for. It is why I am a little suprised at the shortage.

She’s not right. We have hot & cold surgeries and hubs staffed by the same GPs on rotation so they don’t burn out. The exact same level of PPE applies to them according to Public Health England. 

[Bob8]

4 minutes ago, ckn said:

She’s not right. We have hot & cold surgeries and hubs staffed by the same GPs on rotation so they don’t burn out. The exact same level of PPE applies to them according to Public Health England. 

Happy to be corrected.

[Bedford Roughyed]

About 15 to 25% of cardiac arrest deaths were caused by such underlying conditions such as blood loss, trauma, drowning, etc.

Not sure we ever argue if someone died from a gunshot wound, or died with a gunshot wound.

I didn't murder him your honour.  I stabbed him 20 times.  It was the heart attack that killed him.  Therefore I am innocent.  

[ckn]

1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

Happy to be corrected.

A link to the PPE table for general practice, the rest of primary care, and community care 

The only time you get upgraded PPE is when you’re doing things you’re not allowed to do, therefore the answer is never. 

[Saintslass]

8 minutes ago, ckn said:

She’s not right. We have hot & cold surgeries and hubs staffed by the same GPs on rotation so they don’t burn out. The exact same level of PPE applies to them according to Public Health England. 

Incorrect.  

My friend who is a GP in Blackburn has gloves, mask and eye goggles.  The hot surgery in her locality has the full kit.  My friend and her cold surgery colleagues never work in the hot surgery; it is the out of hours team who rota into that surgery.

Things will change if they have to move to phase 2 and things change again should things have to move to phase 3 when some surgeries would fold due to staff illness.

She explained it all to me very clearly and I believe her over you.

[Bob8]

Just now, ckn said:

A link to the PPE table for general practice, the rest of primary care, and community care 

The only time you get upgraded PPE is when you’re doing things you’re not allowed to do, therefore the answer is never. 

I had genuinely assumed there would be stocks for a flu pandemic response. I have been assuming that for years. I support the 2016 exercise makes more sense.

[Saintslass]

1 minute ago, Bob8 said:

I had genuinely assumed there would be stocks for a flu pandemic response. I have been assuming that for years. I support the 2016 exercise makes more sense.

There were stocks for a flu pandemic response.  That was all used very quickly. 

[Saintslass]

4 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

About 15 to 25% of cardiac arrest deaths were cause by such underlying conditions such as blood loss, trauma, drowning, etc.

Not sure we ever argue if someone died from a gunshot wound, or died with a gunshot wound.

I didn't murder him your honour.  I stabbed him 20 times.  It was the heart attack that killed him.  Therefore I am innocent.  

On Twitter it was Andrew Neil who raised the point about whether someone died from or with Covid.  I suppose how accurate the death record is may be important to some folk, especially if those who are dealing with reviewing things when this is all over including those in the medical profession who will be learning from this.  It isn't really important in the broader scheme of things though.  Those people died before they probably would have done if they hadn't had Covid and that is the point really.

[ckn]

3 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I had genuinely assumed there would be stocks for a flu pandemic response. I have been assuming that for years. I support the 2016 exercise makes more sense.

Not really. There are stocks but few of the standard needed for a virus like this. Too few of the lowest acceptable standard meaning pressures on the better stuff has been draining it too quickly. Back that with a reluctance to get massed scale manufacturing going, we’ve nowhere near enough. 

Subway takeaway shop workers making fancy sandwiches change their gloves more often than NHS nurses have to according to the new guidelines. 

[Bob8]

Just now, ckn said:

Not really. There are stocks but few of the standard needed for a virus like this. Too few of the lowest acceptable standard meaning pressures on the better stuff has been draining it too quickly. Back that with a reluctance to get massed scale manufacturing going, we’ve nowhere near enough. 

Subway takeaway shop workers making fancy sandwiches change their gloves more often than NHS nurses have to according to the new guidelines. 

This actually shows how out of touch and out of date what I worked on ten years ago really is. The basic plan then was to have large stocks on hand as an essential for the flu pandemic.

Our friends that say covid is not serious are trivilalsing it, but there is something to it. We are indeed very fortunate that this is not a more serious infection.