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The reporting of people seems to be getting out of control. Four police came to a house in our street last night, a Police van and a car.  A neighbour said someone had reported them for breaching the lockdown. However I hadn't noticed anything to warrant such an approach. 

Then the neighbour started asking me where I had been, where I worked, why I was out etc. I did politely say I was an NHS worker but I really didn't appreciate all the questions. 

It made me think that it doesn't take long for people to turn against each other. Also there is a danger of malicious reporting. 

I think what annoys me is that I haven't noticed the people doing the reporting helping in other ways, offering to do shopping etc, so I am not convinced about motives. 

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35 minutes ago, Damien said:

Its interesting to hear from Liz Kendall regarding the fact that around half of Coronavirus deaths in Ireland are from deaths in Care Homes and how other countries include all Coronavirus deaths in totals. At present these deaths aren't counted in the UK Coronavirus death figures and we only count hospital deaths. This obviously distorts our figures somewhat.

The ONS are separating out Covid deaths in their weekly figures. Latest published are up to 27th March, and if I'm interpreting them correctly there were a further ca70% of the announced (hospital) numbers in the community ie ca1640 total v ca960 announced.

It should be noted that the community deaths aren't confirmed as having Covid but that it is mentioned on the death certificate.

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1 minute ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

The ONS are separating out Covid deaths in their weekly figures. Latest published are up to 27th March, and if I'm interpreting them correctly there were a further ca70% of the announced (hospital) numbers in the community ie ca1640 total v ca960 announced.

1640 deaths in a day? If so that is some difference to what is being announced and the figures that are being widely used for comparison to other countries.

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15 minutes ago, Damien said:

1640 deaths in a day? If so that is some difference to what is being announced and the figures that are being widely used for comparison to other countries.

No, that's the  total as of 27th March. Increase from 26th was 228 (increase in hospital deaths was 251 - discrepancy is because of the way the hospital deaths are counted, they usually include deaths from previous days/weeks).

PS these are numbers for England and Wales only, not UK. I think Scottish numbers include community deaths but not sure about NI.

A couple of other sobering thoughts are that almost 90% of the 10,000 hospital deaths have occurred in the last fortnight and over 50% in the last week!

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1 hour ago, Wolford6 said:

We haven't had 100,000 deaths  in Europe.

The EU  has a population of 700million

0.014% dead, many (most?) of whom have underlying health issues and/or are geriatric.

If ten times as many died, we would only lose less than 0.1%

the government is not publishing how many have died of flu (or with flu) over the same period.

The lockdown for not-at-risk groups is a complete over-reaction.

 

 

I think until mid March the overall death rate across the UK was about average for that time of year, any year, but during March the numbers crossed into being higher than average because of course flu usually subsides as the spring arrives whereas Covid does not seem to respect climate (or anything else).

I actually find myself being a bit concerned about countries where Covid hasn't really hit hard because I wonder that once we come out the other side of this and we begin to open things up again, will the lack of exposure/illness in other countries create a second pandemic?  Surely in order for us to be protected in the future we either have to find a treatment which helps get people better, develop a super effective vaccine or eradicate it completely from the whole world smallpox style?  Unless it dies out of its own accord of course.

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

Its interesting to hear from Liz Kendall regarding the fact that around half of Coronavirus deaths in Ireland are from deaths in Care Homes and how other countries include all Coronavirus deaths in totals. At present these deaths aren't counted in the UK Coronavirus death figures and we only count hospital deaths. This obviously distorts our figures somewhat.

They didn't always do so though.  For example, France only counted hospital deaths for some time and then recently included community deaths in their totals which meant their totals leapt up at one point.

 

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8 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

They didn't always do so though.  For example, France only counted hospital deaths for some time and then recently included community deaths in their totals which meant their totals leapt up at one point.

 

I'm talking about the here and now. It's a more accurate reflection and is what we should be doing.

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1 hour ago, Bleep1673 said:

Just been listening to Boris praising the NHS. 6 months ago he wanted it closed & privatised, I bet he's changed his mind now!

Yes, but he's probably changed his mind right back since that speech. He's not someone who looks back, because there's a lot of stabbed folk lying there.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

Definitely think our figures are being manipulated so we don’t look as bad as we actually are. 

I wasn't surprised when the figures announced on Thursday and Friday spiked, timely to emphasize the Government message for the Easter holiday. On the same theme I should imagine the figures for PPE issued include gloves as 1 item not as pairs so 1 million looks better than 500,000 pairs, they come in boxes of 50 or 100 so it's strictly true to count them as such.

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2 hours ago, Damien said:

Google and Apple are involved in the NHS app. This is quite clear from every report I have read today, even now looking at the original Times article that sparked this conversation it explicitly says Google and Apple are involved. All of the tracking functionality will be coming from Apple and Google and as 98% of phones and tablets use iOS or Android then this simply wouldn't be possible without them. They will be packaging up all of this data and providing Web API's, or something similar, for health organisations all over the world to extract the data for their own individual apps, like the NHS one. The data is key for something like this to work. As is getting people to use the app which with huge privacy concerns may not be that simple. 

Today's reports indicate you are correct with their involvement so point taken. I do maintain though that it was unfair to claim there would be no app without their new service as they were already working on it prior to the Google/Apple initiative (existing bluetooth and related APIs I believe).  Good to see a software project take the long term view rather than the more common bodge it and (never) fix later approach. Hopefully switching to the Google/Apple service makes managing privacy concerns a lot easier as well.

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Belgium probably has the most conservative reporting of deaths in Europe. Look at their numbers and scale them.

Calculating how few a percentage are dying is ridiculous. This is an exponentially growing infection and without lockdown there could be half a million deaths or more and the NHS would collapse.

The government aren't doing this because they want to. 

"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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I’ve been offline working since 10am, no reports so I’m assuming all’s ok and I’m not reading back the thread as I’m knackered. If you wildly disagree, hit report on what you think is out of order and I’ll look back later. 

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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1 hour ago, tim2 said:

Belgium probably has the most conservative reporting of deaths in Europe. Look at their numbers and scale them.

Calculating how few a percentage are dying is ridiculous. This is an exponentially growing infection and without lockdown there could be half a million deaths or more and the NHS would collapse.

The government aren't doing this because they want to. 

Deaths per 100,000 population for a few European countries. Belgium looks particularly bad

europe.png

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1 hour ago, Clogiron said:

I wasn't surprised when the figures announced on Thursday and Friday spiked, timely to emphasize the Government message for the Easter holiday. On the same theme I should imagine the figures for PPE issued include gloves as 1 item not as pairs so 1 million looks better than 500,000 pairs, they come in boxes of 50 or 100 so it's strictly true to count them as such.

There is the same pattern every week: hospital death numbers dip at weekends and on Monday/Tuesday and then they shoot up on Wednesday/Thursday and fall back slightly on Friday.  The difference between each week is of course that the numbers have consistently gone up.  It's a fluctuation based upon the way we record our deaths.  In each total there are deaths from the previous 10 days included so it is really hard for us to know what the overall hospital death picture is other than at present an upward trend.  But then hospital deaths will be the last number to stabilise and then drop so there will be only increases in the next few weeks, sadly.

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Another consequence of coronavirus:

There are a lot of unforeseen consequences of the coronavirus lockdown - and one is more people suffering eye injuries from doing DIY.

Oxford Eye Hospital said it had seen an increase in injuries and people who needed operations.

The hospital saw six "traumatised eyes" in a week, but would usually see one no more than every two to three weeks. It urged people to wear eye protection while doing DIY or gardening.

The hospital added wearing glasses instead of contact lenses would also protect the eyes and reduce the chance of spreading coronavirus.

Consultant Stella Hornby said: "Wearing glasses at the moment reduces the risk of contact lens-related complications, and reduces the need to touch your face."

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5 hours ago, Niels said:

The reporting of people seems to be getting out of control. Four police came to a house in our street last night, a Police van and a car.  

I have upset people here in the past with comments about police but I don't care.... This is the worst possible use of police resources in my view

Worse than traffic police..... Easy pickings compared to tracking assaults/gang members/ anti social violence and intimidation in the community....... My brother was assaulted unprovoked in a town centre during the day and police didn't bother coming to interview him for 3 days citing stretched resources.....

He did however get pulled over a month later and 3points/ftp for doing 35mph on a main road at 10pm which is as wide a motorway that has been designated 30mph

Tarred our whole families view of policings decisions and allocation of resources 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I have upset people here in the past with comments about police but I don't care.... This is the worst possible use of police resources in my view

Worse than traffic police..... Easy pickings compared to tracking assaults/gang members/ anti social violence and intimidation in the community....... My brother was assaulted unprovoked in a town centre during the day and police didn't bother coming to interview him for 3 days citing stretched resources.....

He did however get pulled over a month later and 3points/ftp for doing 35mph on a main road at 10pm which is as wide a motorway that has been designated 30mph

Tarred our whole families view of policings decisions and allocation of resources 

 

 

It may not be a palatable concept.... BUT, if your brother was doing 30mph or less he wouldn't have got collared.

The research is there with regards to the consequences of speeding and the rise in death rates from collisions as speed increases.

Whether the police came up short in attending to your brother is an entirely different argument and not related to how he drives. 

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