coronavirus

[Saintslass]

 

[Wolford6]

1 hour ago, Saintslass said:

 

Not a local firm, but apparently the first batch of Barbour scrubs and gowns have arrived at hospitals in the North East.  Great stuff.

That'll be for the health checks.

[Hullfan]

Has anyone been contacted yet, regarding the self employed income support scheme?? 

[bobbruce]

10 minutes ago, Hullfan said:

Has anyone been contacted yet, regarding the self employed income support scheme?? 

No not yet but I’m going to log into my hmrc account tomorrow just to check they haven’t done it through that rather than email. 

[Hullfan]

12 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

No not yet but I’m going to log into my hmrc account tomorrow just to check they haven’t done it through that rather than email. 

I checked mine today, I haven't received anything via that, as of yet!! 

[bobbruce]

1 minute ago, Hullfan said:

I checked mine today, I haven't received anything via that, as of yet!! 

They did say that they hope to contact people by June so still plenty of time yet. 

[Bleep1673]

Nigel Farage, sitting in his Medway studio flat, in his Y-fronts with a pack of fags, and a couple of cans of Directors, watching Eastenders, while wearing a face mask. Serves him right.

[JohnM]

3 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Yes, it's made clear in the ONS statistics that the deaths are where Covid is mentioned on the death certificate and not necessarily confirmed by testing. In France, community deaths aren't tested either but counted. There are also theories that Germany's numbers are possibly low because many deaths that would be recorded as due/related to  'Covid' in other countries are recorded as being due to other present symptoms - they've consistently had higher numbers of serious/critical cases than the UK (around 3x for a number of days recently but only around 1/4 of the (hospital) deaths).

I don't think that France includes all  community deaths in their figures. Similar to here, I think it's only those who have been tested as positive fof Covid 19.  In any case,  France has only recently stated to include any deaths outside hospital.   

As far as I am aware from my friends in Vichy., that is.

[JohnM]

4 hours ago, ckn said:

Just as a bit of realism before I put my phone away, if the 50% uplift on hospital deaths is still accurate, as it’s shown it has been elsewhere, then we’re at around 18,000 deaths in the UK 

Realism is very much what is needed, as well as consistency, more information about how care home deaths are recorded, who makes the diagnosis to be stated on the death certificate, how long it takes between actual death and turning up in the official stats. Without that consistency,  accuracy and process knowledge, it is possible to form the wrong conclusion and to take wrong decisions.

With the daily figures of hospital deaths, there is consistent of reporting,  I understand, in that these figures are provided by the health  service on the same basis every day.  Slightly surprised that there is no curve-fitting or regression analysis so we can more clearly see a trend.

The ONS figures I understand, are a weekly record of those deaths where Corvid 19 gets a mention on the certificate. Again,  as long as a consistent process is followed and the criteria for inclusion is kept the same,  we get a reasonable picture over time.

The thing I really need help with (along with many other things, it has to be said) is understanding who decides to include the words Covid 19 on the death cerificate at a care home. Also need to understand how long it takes between a death and it's inclusion in the ONS weekly figure. 

For example, a few years ago my mother in law died in a care home and it took nearly three weeks to issues the death certificate. She had never been seen by her named GP , and in the 2 weeks prior to her death had not been seen by any other GP from the same practice. None of them would sign the death certificate and  we were threatened with a post mortem. There was quite a fuss at the time but in the end various agencies managed to get the GP to finalise the paperwork. 

Thus I am very distrustful of the care home figures being talked about.

I am also very distrustful of the way other countries account for deaths outside hospital. Not that they are cheating,  just that they may record things differently, on a different demographic, and on differing definitions  of care home, old people's homes etc etc. 

It needs to be right, otherwise the media will have a hayday...this week. Next week they'll move on to the emerging  scare that the virus can be transmitted by shoes or some such rubbish.

[ckn]

18 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Realism is very much what is needed, as well as consistency, more information about how care home deaths are recorded, who makes the diagnosis to be stated on the death certificate, how long it takes between actual death and turning up in the official stats. Without that consistency,  accuracy and process knowledge, it is possible to form the wrong conclusion and to take wrong decisions.

With the daily figures of hospital deaths, there is consistent of reporting,  I understand, in that these figures are provided by the health  service on the same basis every day.  Slightly surprised that there is no curve-fitting or regression analysis so we can more clearly see a trend.

The ONS figures I understand, are a weekly record of those deaths where Corvid 19 gets a mention on the certificate. Again,  as long as a consistent process is followed and the criteria for inclusion is kept the same,  we get a reasonable picture over time.

The thing I really need help with (along with many other things, it has to be said) is understanding who decides to include the words Covid 19 on the death cerificate at a care home. Also need to understand how long it takes between a death and it's inclusion in the ONS weekly figure. 

For example, a few years ago my mother in law died in a care home and it took nearly three weeks to issues the death certificate. She had never been seen by her named GP , and in the 2 weeks prior to her death had not been seen by any other GP from the same practice. None of them would sign the death certificate and  we were threatened with a post mortem. There was quite a fuss at the time but in the end various agencies managed to get the GP to finalise the paperwork. 

Thus I am very distrustful of the care home figures being talked about.

I am also very distrustful of the way other countries account for deaths outside hospital. Not that they are cheating,  just that they may record things differently, on a different demographic, and on differing definitions  of care home, old people's homes etc etc. 

It needs to be right, otherwise the media will have a hayday...this week. Next week they'll move on to the emerging  scare that the virus can be transmitted by shoes or some such rubbish.

The documents behind the COVID-19 death certification process for out-of-hospital deaths haven’t been released publicly yet, as far as I know, so you’ll have to trust me on this. Here’s about the only public release I can find from an official source. The system is called the P-MART process and ties together both confirmation of death and the certification process. If I see it released, I’ll share it if you want, I’d rather not but if it makes you trust the system more then I will.

The combination of COVID-19 being a “notifiable disease” AND this P-MART official process means the rules are far stricter. To get COVID-19 on a death certificate involves police, ambulance, a medical professional (doctor usually), coroner and other people all agreeing that it is COVID-19 as the cause of death and following an awful flowchart of checks and balances. The system is designed to ensure nothing else is hidden behind it, e.g. foul play, negligence, expected deaths, accident, suicide, life’s excrement-happens moments and so on.

I’ve spent far too many soul-destroying meetings talking about COVID-19 deaths, who can certify it, what happens to bodies and so on for my liking. I bloody hate it. I hate how degrading it is to the family of the deceased and the deceased person itself because of the risk of contamination and further deaths if not handled properly. I hate how it puts my clinicians at risk having to certify death (again, different from confirming death).

But... the process is sound. When COVID-19 is listed as primary cause of death in the UK then you can be as confident as these things allow that the person did die of COVID-19 without a full mortuary autopsy.

[Gray1967]

3 hours ago, Saintslass said:

 

So what are you trying to say? If you bang it on every political or virus thread on here(which you seem to be trying to do) we will have a Lets clap Boris Friday or something ?

[Bleep1673]

Trump suspends funding to WHO because "they didnt do enough to prevent spread of Coronavirus", as though he did the opposite.

[Bob8]

3 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

Trump suspends funding to WHO because "they didnt do enough to prevent spread of Coronavirus", as though he did the opposite.

I agree, but political.

[tim2]

41 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I agree, but political.

Could be on any one of three threads. If the WHO is impacted, then the spread of the virus in non-developed nations could be impacted; then, despite what Trump thinks, this has a severe impact on the developed nations too.

On a side-note, did you know that the 2nd biggest contributor to the WHO, between the USA and Germany, is Bill Gates' Foundation?

[Wiltshire Rhino]

No idea if this hero has been mentioned in the thread yet (as I haven't read back over the posts) but, even if he has, he deserves to be mentioned again. 

[Wolford6]

I go to Tesco every day ... my local newsagent has stopped selling newspapers for the duration. I've not noticed any facemasks on sale, yet dozens of people are wearing them. I've checked the Tesco webpage for "facemasks" and all that comes on screen is a variety of cosmetic mudpacks.

 

Where are people buying their coronavirus masks?

[Wiltshire Rhino]

9 minutes ago, Wolford6 said:

 

Where are people buying their coronavirus masks?

Not sure but you could maybe adapt something

[Damien]

7 hours ago, Gray1967 said:

So what are you trying to say? If you bang it on every political or virus thread on here(which you seem to be trying to do) we will have a Lets clap Boris Friday or something ?

Not for the first time these types of post have been posted on both threads. For some strange reason JohnM never seems to complain about a Saintslass political post on this thread though.

[tim2]

1 hour ago, Wolford6 said:

I go to Tesco every day ... my local newsagent has stopped selling newspapers for the duration. I've not noticed any facemasks on sale, yet dozens of people are wearing them. I've checked the Tesco webpage for "facemasks" and all that comes on screen is a variety of cosmetic mudpacks.

 

Where are people buying their coronavirus masks?

You can buy them on Amazon - I just don't kmow whether some of them are scams or not.

[gingerjon]

8 hours ago, ckn said:

The documents behind the COVID-19 death certification process for out-of-hospital deaths haven’t been released publicly yet, as far as I know, so you’ll have to trust me on this. Here’s about the only public release I can find from an official source. The system is called the P-MART process and ties together both confirmation of death and the certification process. If I see it released, I’ll share it if you want, I’d rather not but if it makes you trust the system more then I will.

The combination of COVID-19 being a “notifiable disease” AND this P-MART official process means the rules are far stricter. To get COVID-19 on a death certificate involves police, ambulance, a medical professional (doctor usually), coroner and other people all agreeing that it is COVID-19 as the cause of death and following an awful flowchart of checks and balances. The system is designed to ensure nothing else is hidden behind it, e.g. foul play, negligence, expected deaths, accident, suicide, life’s excrement-happens moments and so on.

I’ve spent far too many soul-destroying meetings talking about COVID-19 deaths, who can certify it, what happens to bodies and so on for my liking. I bloody hate it. I hate how degrading it is to the family of the deceased and the deceased person itself because of the risk of contamination and further deaths if not handled properly. I hate how it puts my clinicians at risk having to certify death (again, different from confirming death).

But... the process is sound. When COVID-19 is listed as primary cause of death in the UK then you can be as confident as these things allow that the person did die of COVID-19 without a full mortuary autopsy.

Can I just add to this, having read a comment via the Reverend My Dad, that it's in absolutely nobody's interests to report a death as covid as, from that point on, it gets even more degrading, expensive and time-consuming for all those involved, including the family? If anything, the pressure is the other way: to not put it on the death certificate unless absolutely necessary.

[JohnM]

8 hours ago, ckn said:

.... you’ll have to trust me on this.

Of course. That goes without saying,  Thanks for the info. No need fo share "P Mart. "

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Can I just add to this, having read a comment via the Reverend My Dad, that it's in absolutely nobody's interests to report a death as covid as, from that point on, it gets even more degrading, expensive and time-consuming for all those involved, including the family? If anything, the pressure is the other way: to not put it on the death certificate unless absolutely necessary.

Good point.

[gingerjon]

15 minutes ago, tim2 said:

You can buy them on Amazon - I just don't kmow whether some of them are scams or not.

Order now, you'll get it tomorrow: https://www.ukmeds.co.uk/hygiene-face-mask-ffp2-n95

[Wolford6]

I've got a boxful if I want. I occasionally work with asbestos.

I might wear one in the supermarket because it's hayfever season and I dont want to start sniffling and worrying other shoppers.

[JohnM]

Re face masks.  A mate (in his early 80s it has to be said) found an unused decorators mask ftom 25 years ago. He realises it's uselessness but it fills a cosmetic need if he goes out.  His wife has made her own, with  heaven knows what material.

I have a face mask with two carbon filter cartridges that I could wear if I strayed off our property., mainly for comedy value. Last time I left the property was 8 days ago when I went to Boots to collect a prescription. Currently no need to leave our property for three weeks or so. Asda delivery slots getting easier to book.

I'm wary though, of any apps that collect movement data for tracing purposes. Currently, Google Maps even records me wandering round my modest rear garden!