Saintslass Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, SSoutherner said: I heard an interesting radio prog on r4 about 1:30 today, "inside health?" lots on interesting info about new approaches to treatments and also new complications re kidney damage and sticky blood in covid-19 patients clogging dialysis machines. As an extra for those following the saga of the mate who works for railways and was ordered to do a test 2 weeks ago, this is latest from their facebook "I rang to chase my test results again. They said they had already escalated it and there was nothing more they could do. They can't even see records to see if I have had the test. Tests that are sent to the US are taking ten days. If I haven't had any results after 14 days, I can have a retest - but obviously it means I don't know whether I had it two weeks ago. I have no idea what else to do, this is turning out to be a massive waste of time." On the Hospital programme (from the Royal Free) that I watched earlier in the week, they highlighted another complication with the larynx. The nurse who had to be put on a ventilator then had to go for emergency surgery as they could not extract the tube from her throat when they came to extubate her. From that they learned to use a smaller tube when intubating. It sounds like you were unfortunate in the timing of your test; it was when they had the technical hitch at two of the labs. The govt said that is now fixed. I was fortunate. My result came back two days later (negative - phew!). I hope it turns up soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSoutherner Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 50 minutes ago, Saintslass said: On the Hospital programme (from the Royal Free) that I watched earlier in the week, they highlighted another complication with the larynx. The nurse who had to be put on a ventilator then had to go for emergency surgery as they could not extract the tube from her throat when they came to extubate her. From that they learned to use a smaller tube when intubating. It sounds like you were unfortunate in the timing of your test; it was when they had the technical hitch at two of the labs. The govt said that is now fixed. I was fortunate. My result came back two days later (negative - phew!). I hope it turns up soon. Not my test, a mate who works for one of the rail companies (In Signalling design so not really a key worker) and was ordered to do a test driving 70 miles round trip to do so on the day which helped hit the 100k tests But their result is now totally lost after being sent to US Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintslass Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 This is a funny thread … (made me laugh anyway!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintslass Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 Apparently the Swiss firm Roche has developed an anti body test that Porton Down has confirmed is 100% reliable. The NHS is negotiating to buy millions of them. The Daily Telegraph is reporting this (but it's behind a paywall and so I can't establish any further details). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjonn Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Saintslass said: I was totally absorbed in what the Prof was saying. I just wish I could remember more of it! What I'd also like to understand is how if at all treatment may have or not changed. That is have Health Services in treating more and more cases been able to improve outcomes by adopting improvements in approach. I've not seen any discussions around this. Hoping that recovery numbers are improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 7 hours ago, Saintslass said: Apparently the Swiss firm Roche has developed an anti body test that Porton Down has confirmed is 100% reliable. The NHS is negotiating to buy millions of them. The Daily Telegraph is reporting this (but it's behind a paywall and so I can't establish any further details). Ah! Lovely https://www.roche.com/media/releases/med-cor-2020-05-03.htm "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wholly Trinity Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 23 minutes ago, Bob8 said: Ah! Lovely https://www.roche.com/media/releases/med-cor-2020-05-03.htm game-changer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintslass Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 8 hours ago, redjonn said: What I'd also like to understand is how if at all treatment may have or not changed. That is have Health Services in treating more and more cases been able to improve outcomes by adopting improvements in approach. I've not seen any discussions around this. Hoping that recovery numbers are improving. You should submit a question for the press conference! I agree that it would be interesting to have an update on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintslass Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Bob8 said: Ah! Lovely https://www.roche.com/media/releases/med-cor-2020-05-03.htm I think the only problem with this now is that if the study in Italy I referred to earlier is correct, an anti body test won't pick up everyone who has actually had the disease; only those who were symptomatic. So will it really help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wholly Trinity Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 12 minutes ago, Saintslass said: I think the only problem with this now is that if the study in Italy I referred to earlier is correct, an anti body test won't pick up everyone who has actually had the disease; only those who were symptomatic. So will it really help? Isn't that the point? We need to identify people who have antibodies and are likely to have some immunity to the virus. If someone has had a mild dose of the disease or was asymptomatic and doesn't have any antibodies, they are effectively irrelevant and are just part of the susceptible group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Wholly Trinity said: game-changer If you can get enough of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford Roughyed Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 37 minutes ago, Wholly Trinity said: Isn't that the point? We need to identify people who have antibodies and are likely to have some immunity to the virus. If someone has had a mild dose of the disease or was asymptomatic and doesn't have any antibodies, they are effectively irrelevant and are just part of the susceptible group. Yup, a laymans guess is that you need antibodies to be immune? So the test will work for all? If the Italian study is true, we won't ever get 'herd immunity' without a vaccine? With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 57 minutes ago, Saintslass said: I think the only problem with this now is that if the study in Italy I referred to earlier is correct, an anti body test won't pick up everyone who has actually had the disease; only those who were symptomatic. So will it really help? That is broadly correct, as far as I understand. The 100% is for as aspect of the assay also, it cannot be 100%. We do not really understand how the immue system works to any great extend. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said: Yup, a laymans guess is that you need antibodies to be immune? So the test will work for all? If the Italian study is true, we won't ever get 'herd immunity' without a vaccine? You need the antibodies to have a non-inate immune response. Kids seem to avoid it because the virus does not access them. That is immunity, but not mediated by the immune system. It still counts to herd immunity. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 30 minutes ago, Bob8 said: You need the antibodies to have a non-inate immune response. Kids seem to avoid it because the virus does not access them. That is immunity, but not mediated by the immune system. It still counts to herd immunity. Any studies for that? My understanding was we didn't really know how the virus behaved in/among kids (PIMS-TS?). The DoE health advisor yesterday certainly suggested that we didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 36 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: Any studies for that? My understanding was we didn't really know how the virus behaved in/among kids (PIMS-TS?). The DoE health advisor yesterday certainly suggested that we didn't. I know nothing. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 44 minutes ago, Bob8 said: I know nothing. I thought there might be some info out there that you were more likely to have seen. I guess schools reopening in Europe could be viewed as an empirical test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: Any studies for that? My understanding was we didn't really know how the virus behaved in/among kids (PIMS-TS?). The DoE health advisor yesterday certainly suggested that we didn't. Trying to cut through the waffle on this is quite tough for a layman like me but, from what I've been trying to follow this morning, it seems that one of the reasons we don't know is *because* schools were shut down and so were most other child-filled places just at the time when we might be collecting data. So there's a big old gap caused by a lack of opportunity to study? The assumption - again please do correct me - is that covid-19 would be a very odd disease in its category if it wasn't transferable from children to adults. So there are genuine issues there. However, the issue around danger to children would seem to be from complications arising from covid (I guess health conditions they may not know they have?) rather than the condition itself? Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Trying to cut through the waffle on this is quite tough for a layman like me but, from what I've been trying to follow this morning, it seems that one of the reasons we don't know is *because* schools were shut down and so were most other child-filled places just at the time when we might be collecting data. So there's a big old gap caused by a lack of opportunity to study? The assumption - again please do correct me - is that covid-19 would be a very odd disease in its category if it wasn't transferable from children to adults. So there are genuine issues there. However, the issue around danger to children would seem to be from complications arising from covid (I guess health conditions they may not know they have?) rather than the condition itself? It might be that children as less suspectible to being infected, which is to say we can dump the virus on them, but it does not propagate as well using children as hosts. There are plenty to possible reasons for this, possibly as banal as fewer ACE receptors. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Bob8 said: Ah! Lovely https://www.roche.com/media/releases/med-cor-2020-05-03.htm I saw that last week and was a bit surprised that the US and EU had approved their use (albeit under emergency measures) but we were still assessing. I only hope we're not 2 weeks behind in getting firm orders in for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Bob8 said: It might be that children as less suspectible to being infected, which is to say we can dump the virus on them, but it does not propagate as well using children as hosts. There are plenty to possible reasons for this, possibly as banal as fewer ACE receptors. If PIMS-TS is a consequence of having or having had CV-19 the limited stuff I've read suggests that not all the children who've suffered have tested positive for CV antibodies which would fit with observations in adults. (This is of course purely me speculating and making conclusions on very limited data and personal knowledge) I guess only time will tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: If PIMS-TS is a consequence of having or having had CV-19 the limited stuff I've read suggests that not all the children who've suffered have tested positive for CV antibodies which would fit with observations in adults. (This is of course purely me speculating and making conclusions on very limited data and personal knowledge) I guess only time will tell us. We are becoming 'TRL Experts'! But, yes, that does make sense. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 53 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Trying to cut through the waffle on this is quite tough for a layman like me but, from what I've been trying to follow this morning, it seems that one of the reasons we don't know is *because* schools were shut down and so were most other child-filled places just at the time when we might be collecting data. So there's a big old gap caused by a lack of opportunity to study? The assumption - again please do correct me - is that covid-19 would be a very odd disease in its category if it wasn't transferable from children to adults. So there are genuine issues there. However, the issue around danger to children would seem to be from complications arising from covid (I guess health conditions they may not know they have?) rather than the condition itself? I do not have as much exposure to the British national media, so I forget how terrible it is. The idea going round that children magically cannot pass it on is clearly mad. And dangerous. And the journalists should clearly be locked up for spreading the lies. "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckn Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 The lockdown easing as described by Doncaster Council. Click through for an excellent thread and use of social media. "When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjonn Posted May 14, 2020 Share Posted May 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: I saw that last week and was a bit surprised that the US and EU had approved their use (albeit under emergency measures) but we were still assessing. I only hope we're not 2 weeks behind in getting firm orders in for them. no expert and no wish to start a brexit debate but I think during transition period the EU approval (CE/CE-IVD) would apply to UK. We may well be assessing how accurate the test is as distinct from regulatory approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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