coronavirus

[JohnM]

Not being political in any way. The airlines and airports have a lot to answer for, way back at the beginning of this.   They should not have waited for official lockdown. They, like thd rest of us, could clearly see how infectious the virus was. If what we saw, heard and read in the news media was even half true,  planes were stuffed with people brining the virus back ftom skiing hols in Spain,  France and Italy, then intermingling with other travellers at Heathrow and Gatwick and elsewhere. They were happy to wait to be told what to do, when they could and should have acted on their own responsibility. 

[Saintslass]

While eating my evening meal I watched the BBC news channel and a chap from the FT was interviewed.  He has been monitoring infection rates worldwide since the outset of the pandemic.  In his opinion, the decision by the UK government (which of course has the full agreement of all the devolved nations) to change the advice to the whole of Spain (since the islands have now been included) is the right one.  He said that while infection numbers are relatively low on the islands, they are rising, and infection numbers across Spain are rising.  They have been rising for a while and he believed Spain will have been watched for a few weeks because while rising numbers could spell a problem, the situation is more nuanced and something specific could be causing it on the ground. He also stated that establishing the situation on the ground was difficult and invariably took time.

From what he said Romania could be the next country for the chop.  (If it's on the approved list at the moment - I can't remember whether it is)

Apparently, also revealed on the BBC as I was watching it, Spain's current infections stand at around 35 per 100,000 whereas the UK's stand at 14.2 per 100,000.

[Saintslass]

9 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Also see Vietnam's response to 4 cases. Our quarantine rules are a bit of half hearted effort too and interestingly we're reported to be taking Slovenia off the 'list' tomorrow whereas Finland have put them on theirs today! 

Isn't Vietnam a dictatorship?

[Saintslass]

21 hours ago, ckn said:

COVID deaths in Spain in the last 5 days = 12

Deaths in England in the last 5 days = 426 

I’m not making any political point, just highlighting our national idiocy in pointing fingers at other nations. 

I don't think we are pointing the finger at anyone.  The government has learned its lesson from February/March.  It is now closing down the opportunity of transmission into the country.  After all, most of our initial cases came from British holidaymakers returning to the UK from Spain, France and Italy.  You would rightly criticise the government if they decided to let any sympathy with the Spanish tourism industry or indeed the airline industry hinder their decision-making resulting in us being hit with another wave of infections as a result.  Our numbers have ticked up as it is although of course we have seen a few localised outbreaks (another one at a caravan park has just been confirmed for instance) and so they may be the reason behind the rise.  Time will tell.

Total UK deaths today - 7.  The lowest number since 13 March.  But I'm not convinced by that number because the PHE figures are under review at the moment since it seems people in England never recover from Covid.  I'm not convinced by the number you quoted for the same reason.  Once the review is complete I may have confidence again in the numbers reported by PHE.  Until then I've reverted to watching the hospital deaths instead as they have been consistent.  

[shaun mc]

In Spain, the Balearics and Canaries are about a 90th of the Aragon & Catalunya regions (according to the BBC last night). If you include the islands on an average rate then you'd have to include a lot of other European countries, where there are rises in average infections

And the other way - it would be no surprise if UK visitors were barred from many countries given our continuing infection rates

[gingerjon]

15 hours ago, JohnM said:

Not being political in any way. The airlines and airports have a lot to answer for, way back at the beginning of this.   They should not have waited for official lockdown. They, like thd rest of us, could clearly see how infectious the virus was. If what we saw, heard and read in the news media was even half true,  planes were stuffed with people brining the virus back ftom skiing hols in Spain,  France and Italy, then intermingling with other travellers at Heathrow and Gatwick and elsewhere. They were happy to wait to be told what to do, when they could and should have acted on their own responsibility. 

You're right to an extent. And I remember months ago being at Gatwick watching planes fly to Italy on the day that Italy had declared some form of lockdown. There were no notices or announcements at all.

But personal responsibility only takes you so far, and business responsibility takes you nowhere at all. It's the job of governments to manage the state.

But, you are right, in that everyone could see how dangerous the virus was and how dangerous it remains. The push for normality, then and now, leads to deaths.

[Copa]

On 27/07/2020 at 04:28, gingerjon said:

Yes, I thought it was an unenforceable and not-backed-up highly visible statement with no substance.

Here in Canberra the last round of house visits by police resulted in a 100% compliance rate for home quarantine. It hasn’t been as good elsewhere in the country though.

[Trevorkfevfan]

As the issue around face masks develops this appeared on youtube, be warned, some bad language!

The message there is pretty clear I wou;ld venture!

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

New paper suggests that masks do offer protection to the wearer

https://m.box.com/shared_item/https%3A%2F%2Fucsf.app.box.com%2Fs%2Fblvolkp5z0mydzd82rjks4wyleagt036 

[Bleep1673]

I am SOOOOOO angry at Aston Villa, in the middle of a coronavirus, semi lock-down, they have announced the signing of a major female player for their first team, and the photo on the website shows manager and player, less than 1 meter from each other. Is the 2 meter rule not applicable to female sportspeople then?

[Bleep1673]

[Bedford Roughyed]

Quite a big area.

 

[gazza77]

3 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Quite a big area.

 

Could make a difficult Eid celebration for those planning to celebrate tomorrow. 

[JohnM]

Is it not the case that gloves can prevent the entry of the virus inyo thr body through broken skin on the hand? Were we not told that you only caught it if it entered you body rather than just resting on it.  Instruction were not to rub your eyes,  etc etc.

 

[ckn]

5 hours ago, JohnM said:

Is it not the case that gloves can prevent the entry of the virus inyo thr body through broken skin on the hand? Were we not told that you only caught it if it entered you body rather than just resting on it.  Instruction were not to rub your eyes,  etc etc.

On a broader issue of this thread, how is the constant carping about each and every action the Government takes not politically motivated.  This thread started on a positive note many pages ago,  sharing ecperinces, knowledge and facts.  That seem to me to be no longer the case. Now it mainly "what the Government says or does it wrong, too late or for the wrong reasons.Strike out which does not apply. 

I agree entirely. I'll just start deleting posts from now rather than moving them. It's not exactly a new request.

[ckn]

5 hours ago, JohnM said:

Is it not the case that gloves can prevent the entry of the virus inyo thr body through broken skin on the hand? Were we not told that you only caught it if it entered you body rather than just resting on it.  Instruction were not to rub your eyes,  etc etc.

On a broader issue of this thread, how is the constant carping about each and every action the Government takes not politically motivated.  This thread started on a positive note many pages ago,  sharing ecperinces, knowledge and facts.  That seem to me to be no longer the case. Now it mainly "what the Government says or does it wrong, too late or for the wrong reasons.Strike out which does not apply. 

The problem is that gloves give a false sense of security. People put them on and then act as if they're protected when in reality they're doing nothing but putting on a separate layer. That then will see extra spreading through the false sense of security. If you know how to use them in a proper infection control method then you're fine, if not you're probably just helping spread it.

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, ckn said:

The problem is that gloves give a false sense of security. People put them on and then act as if they're protected when in reality they're doing nothing but putting on a separate layer. That then will see extra spreading through the false sense of security. If you know how to use them in a proper infection control method then you're fine, if not you're probably just helping spread it.

I know a young girl at my boxing club, an international fashion model until a few years ago and in her mid-twenties. Almost the least likely adult to be badly affected. Her Mum is a nurse, but had been careful with her PPE, so was not worried about getting infected and spreading it.

Apparently, after a few days, this woman thought she was going to die. Full recovery since, but there is a genuine (as well as a nonsense) debate about the effect.

Personally, I think introducing mask would be effective, in part as it would send the message that this is serious.

[Shadow]

42 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I know a young international fashion model in her mid-twenties

That's what you wanted to tell us all wasn't it.

Is your much younger scandinavian wife OK with this "friendship"?

[ckn]

 

[ckn]

3 minutes ago, ckn said:

 

Here's the document that that pic came from.

The most interesting is p7, Figure 10 and p8, Figure 11. Figure 11 shows that localised lockdowns do work. Awful timing, but very necessary.

And no, you can't have a grumble about the government on that, if you want to do that then you can go post on Politics.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, ckn said:

Here's the document that that pic came from.

The most interesting is p7, Figure 10 and p8, Figure 11. Figure 11 shows that localised lockdowns do work. Awful timing, but very necessary.

And no, you can't have a grumble about the government on that, if you want to do that then you can go post on Politics.

Am I allowed to point out that the table is unreliable because it's been sorted by the YES/NO at the end to give the impression to a casual reader that it's the areas with the highest infection rates that have been put under intervention?

[ckn]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Am I allowed to point out that the table is unreliable because it's been sorted by the YES/NO at the end to give the impression to a casual reader that it's the areas with the highest infection rates that have been put under intervention?

There's a very complex process behind this that I'm actually very supportive of and it makes sense. For example, a very intensively urban area with a minor but significant infection rate is a far higher risk than a rural area that has a higher rate. We'd expect the latter to burn out far quicker but the former could run away quickly if not managed.

An example, pre-COVID London, people will tolerate sardine-like public transport and personal space is non-existent, but rural folk get all nervous and sweaty if you get within 2m of them.

That's why the Cumbria issue is less of an immediate problem than Bradford or Manchester.

Personally, I'd have taken a harder stance, but then I'm not an expert on this sort of thing, and they've clearly learned their lessons from Leicester that they can't wait until a peak before intervening.

[DavidM]

Eden Valley on that list . My brother lives there and he’s been saying the lakes are rammed . People lighting barbecues by the lake , rubbish and waste getting thrown all over the place ( all sorts if you get my meaning ... )

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, ckn said:

There's a very complex process behind this that I'm actually very supportive of and it makes sense. For example, a very intensively urban area with a minor but significant infection rate is a far higher risk than a rural area that has a higher rate. We'd expect the latter to burn out far quicker but the former could run away quickly if not managed.

An example, pre-COVID London, people will tolerate sardine-like public transport and personal space is non-existent, but rural folk get all nervous and sweaty if you get within 2m of them.

That's why the Cumbria issue is less of an immediate problem than Bradford or Manchester.

Personally, I'd have taken a harder stance, but then I'm not an expert on this sort of thing, and they've clearly learned their lessons from Leicester that they can't wait until a peak before intervening.

I'm not opposing the need for local lockdowns nor this specific one. But my further opinions will need to go elsewhere.

Everything is rammed down here today and I noted Eastbourne on an earlier list. Not that confident we'll be okay for too long here.

[ckn]

Just a hint for people, try not to get so trollied that you end up in A&E during a global pandemic. Page 11 of this weekly emergency care report shows we're about 25% higher than this time last year. Stupid people.

Easily not a political point, it's individual stupidity through personal choice.