coronavirus

[Saintslass]

1 hour ago, silverback said:

But if someone coughs or sneezes nearby while your sat up park and its breezy out i reckon it will travel a fair distance more than in your front room,who knows but am told my other hobby with the racing is on hold a bit longer due to this case of it been spred in a crowd(sat 2m apart) while sat around track with the cars wafting past at high speeds?.

Well, I can only repeat what the scientists said which was that it dissipates.

[gingerjon]

16 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm now at the point where I am just completely fed up of people. I've tried my best to leave people to it and have a live and let live attitude for my own sanity, but now I've just had enough of people! 

I feel like we are in an episode of Black Mirror, all people are bothered about is taking photos and selfies and sod the virus and social distancing. I've been away for a few days so not really keeping up with things, but so many people are posting photos of them hugging people, arms round each other in groups, in cars together even in hot tubs that I assumed I must have missed a relaxation of rules. But no, they are just being ######. 

I went to a football match yesterday. It was at Westfield who are a 'Step 7' club and thus covered by grassroots rather than non league guidance. This means that as long as they follow certain rules (which, to be fair, they absolutely did: track and trace details, one way system and no tables/seats in the clubhouse, hand sanitiser available, changing rooms closed, social distancing signs, one in one out for the toilets marshalled by a security person) they can have people turn up and watch. Those rules are fine for when Westfield play AFC Uckfield II in the Mid Sussex League but, yesterday, they had  a friendly against Hastings. Hastings average gate was over 600 last year and the two clubs are less than a ten minute drive apart.

So this is what it looked like:

Being as kind as possible: most people standing next to each other definitely knew the people they were with. There were some gaps not obvious to a telephoto lens shot. But ...

Anyway, I had a good time. Enjoyed the match. Stood as far away from other people as possible. Didn't go inside. But if you want a reason why sports events have been paused then just look at how bunched a fixture at tiny Westfield gets on a nice sunny day when people haven't had live sport for months.

[Dave T]

8 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

Same everywhere Dave. A few people have openly said they’ve had enough; that it’s impinging on their freedom not being able to do what they want and if some people die prematurely, then so be it. Couple of people in work are being d**** as well...

My Mum is one of the worst. She keeps saying 'all we can do is our best' - well if your best is driving your friends around in your car, abandoning social distancing with her kids, having photos hugging her brothers, mixing with multiple households in the pub etc. then tbh, we are pretty goosed. 

But, you know, brown people. 

[silverback]

7 hours ago, Saintslass said:

Well, I can only repeat what the scientists said which was that it dissipates.

And i can only try be safe by reading up now and again rather than wifes tales.

When epidemiologists are working in the field, trying to understand an outbreak of an unknown pathogen, it's not possible for them to know exactly what's going on as a pathogen is spread from person to person, Milton says. "Epidemiologists cannot tell the difference between droplet transmission and short-range aerosol transmission."

He says these are hard questions to answer, and scientists still argue over how much of the transmission of influenza might be airborne. Some research shows that exhaled gas clouds from people contain a continuum of many droplet sizes and that a "high-momentum cloud" created by a cough or sneeze might carry droplets long distances.    (>>>> the virus can remain infectious in the air for up to two hours after an infected person leaves an area."<<<<)

What's more, one study of hospital rooms of patients with COVID-19 found that "swabs taken from the air exhaust outlets tested positive, suggesting that small virus-laden droplets may be displaced by airflows and deposited on equipment such as vents." probably same air filters used in planes venting ducts too.

[JohnM]

37 minutes ago, Dave T said:

My Mum is one of the worst. She keeps saying 'all we can do is our best' - well if your best is driving your friends around in your car, abandoning social distancing with her kids, having photos hugging her brothers, mixing with multiple households in the pub etc. then tbh, we are pretty goosed. 

But, you know, brown people. 

Yes, too many with that attitude. Yesterday at the M18/M180 services, entry well controlled with one way system, etc etc, as a couple of weeks ago but busier. In gents, Al but one person wore face masks. I challenged that one who said, nah, mate, it's all a load of ######. I'm 74 against his late 30s so I did not express my wish that he were infertile. 

As for your last statemt, we have a Bradford imam calling out that too many of his flock are indeed ignoring all the rules and imploring them to get with the programme. We have, as stated in my now-removed post, testimony from a good and trusted Muslim friend of mine that there is a huge cross generational problem, including amongst his extended family.  Yes, not the only reason for the problems in Bradford, Blackburn, etc etc but a significant contributory factor. 

[Saintslass]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

My Mum is one of the worst. She keeps saying 'all we can do is our best' - well if your best is driving your friends around in your car, abandoning social distancing with her kids, having photos hugging her brothers, mixing with multiple households in the pub etc. then tbh, we are pretty goosed. 

But, you know, brown people. 

Actually you could replace your final sentence by 'But, you know, young people' as they have had as much responsibility laid at their door as 'brown people'.

[Saintslass]

I see that Australia are now seriously struggling to get on top of their outbreak.  I am sure there was a time when the Australian press had a dig at us when we were being battered by the virus and they were doing a splendid job at suppressing it.  Vietnam has now had its first death from the virus after getting right on top of it as the infections are rising there too, albeit from a much lower base than in other places.  It seems to me that the only way to truly control this virus is to never meet others in your house, live your life entirely outdoors and completely close your borders, not letting anyone in or out ever.

[glemiln]

10 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

completely close your borders, not letting anyone in or out ever.

perhaps soon on border with Scotland; the "elderly" and others considered to have an increased risk with the virus, to be incarcerated and sealing off the capital - the latter two being considered according to today's Telegraph!

[GeordieSaint]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

My Mum is one of the worst. She keeps saying 'all we can do is our best' - well if your best is driving your friends around in your car, abandoning social distancing with her kids, having photos hugging her brothers, mixing with multiple households in the pub etc. then tbh, we are pretty goosed. 

But, you know, brown people. 

My other half isn’t great... keep having to remind her about ‘hugging my relatives and friends! 

There are many weak-minded individuals out there who are pretty selfish. I am not having a pop at people having to work etc; that’s just a requirement of life. But the need to mix and socialise unsafely by some people I know (and have seen on TV!) is a sad inditement of modern British society. 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Saintslass said:

I see that Australia are now seriously struggling to get on top of their outbreak. 

Seems very specifically to be Victoria at this time.

And they had issues with mask-truthers and other halfwits. Came out of their lockdown too early and too fast.

[johnmatrix]

31 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Seems very specifically to be Victoria at this time.

And they had issues with mask-truthers and other halfwits. Came out of their lockdown too early and too fast.

How many cases did they have when they ended their first lockdown?

Were masks mandatory over their in shops etc?

[Saintslass]

24 minutes ago, johnmatrix said:

How many cases did they have when they ended their first lockdown?

Were masks mandatory over their in shops etc?

Australia went into lockdown on 23 March.  It seems that states started easing lockdown measures in May.  They did so in stages in a way we would recognise (and indeed every other country with slight variations).  According to this article it seems masks were introduced in Melbourne in July.

[Saintslass]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Seems very specifically to be Victoria at this time.

And they had issues with mask-truthers and other halfwits. Came out of their lockdown too early and too fast.

True about Victoria but there appears to be growing community transmission in Sydney too.

Other countries in the region are also seeing spikes though, including Vietnam (where there has been a first death).  Can't blame it all on how 'fast' or otherwise lockdowns are eased.  It appears to me to be more about how easily this damn thing is spread.  Takes no effort at all to set the bloody thing on the fast track.

[Saintslass]

2 hours ago, glemiln said:

perhaps soon on border with Scotland; the "elderly" and others considered to have an increased risk with the virus, to be incarcerated and sealing off the capital - the latter two being considered according to today's Telegraph!

War gaming.  Assuming it's true.  The Telegraph does like to indulge in speculation.

I'm quite sure a whole range of approaches are being considered given what is happening on the continent.  We know something similar will happen here.  Short of being New Zealand we will be battling this stupid virus until there is an effective treatment or a vaccine.

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, Saintslass said:

Actually you could replace your final sentence by 'But, you know, young people' as they have had as much responsibility laid at their door as 'brown people'.

My point refers to the specific recent narrative around Asians which is fuelling certain sections of society getting angry, while they ignore what they are doing themselves, because that is fine. 

But yes, there is a similar point to be made about youth, who are an easy target for blame. 

[Dave T]

4 hours ago, JohnM said:

Yes, too many with that attitude. Yesterday at the M18/M180 services, entry well controlled with one way system, etc etc, as a couple of weeks ago but busier. In gents, Al but one person wore face masks. I challenged that one who said, nah, mate, it's all a load of ######. I'm 74 against his late 30s so I did not express my wish that he were infertile. 

As for your last statemt, we have a Bradford imam calling out that too many of his flock are indeed ignoring all the rules and imploring them to get with the programme. We have, as stated in my now-removed post, testimony from a good and trusted Muslim friend of mine that there is a huge cross generational problem, including amongst his extended family.  Yes, not the only reason for the problems in Bradford, Blackburn, etc etc but a significant contributory factor. 

I'm not saying there aren't issues within all communities, including Asian families, but as we are pointing out here, there is an issue with all sections of society around this. 

We need to be careful of fuelling hatred by focusing on individual groups. 

[JohnM]

It's remedial action that is required. For sure, Imams are working hard to persuade people but when, as my friend pointed out,  some of his friends and relatives in the uk ..mainly watch Pakistani or Indian soaps, news and films, don't read British newspapers or watch British tv., no Panorama,  no Silent Witness etc. They don't get the warnings that go out on the media, Spotify etc. 

At thd outset I raised the issue of translation etc on the politicalsub forum.

 

[Saintslass]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

My point refers to the specific recent narrative around Asians which is fuelling certain sections of society getting angry, while they ignore what they are doing themselves, because that is fine. 

But yes, there is a similar point to be made about youth, who are an easy target for blame. 

The thing is though that Asians do incorporate older members of their families in a way that Brits don't really do anymore (they used to of course).  Everything I have learned of Asian culture points towards respect and inclusion of the older generation within the family bonds.  Asians don't tend to stick their grannies in care homes.  Given the presence of the older generation with the younger and then the intermingling with other Asian families with similar home groupings, the risk of infection and risk to the older generation increases and of course the very numbers make spread more likely in the confined spaces of what are often small homes.  So far I haven't heard anyone blaming Asian people for the spread; they are just acknowledging the cultural traditions that make spread easier (and indeed have).  Mix that in with youth of all backgrounds plus the minority of any age or culture or nationality or ethnicity who don't give a rat's backside and there is trouble ahead with this virus.

Anyway, let's hope enough people take the edict seriously in order to make a big enough difference to the numbers so that a degree of interaction can return.  However, Asian families, young people, the covidiots of all stripes also need to realise and accept for the benefit of the whole community that until there is a treatment or a vaccine we have to resist the temptation to hug everyone or get close to them in our homes or share their crockery or sit on too many sofas.  

[Dave T]

19 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

The thing is though that Asians do incorporate older members of their families in a way that Brits don't really do anymore (they used to of course).  Everything I have learned of Asian culture points towards respect and inclusion of the older generation within the family bonds.  Asians don't tend to stick their grannies in care homes.  Given the presence of the older generation with the younger and then the intermingling with other Asian families with similar home groupings, the risk of infection and risk to the older generation increases and of course the very numbers make spread more likely in the confined spaces of what are often small homes.  So far I haven't heard anyone blaming Asian people for the spread; they are just acknowledging the cultural traditions that make spread easier (and indeed have).  Mix that in with youth of all backgrounds plus the minority of any age or culture or nationality or ethnicity who don't give a rat's backside and there is trouble ahead with this virus.

Anyway, let's hope enough people take the edict seriously in order to make a big enough difference to the numbers so that a degree of interaction can return.  However, Asian families, young people, the covidiots of all stripes also need to realise and accept for the benefit of the whole community that until there is a treatment or a vaccine we have to resist the temptation to hug everyone or get close to them in our homes or share their crockery or sit on too many sofas.  

I'll not say much more about Asian culture as we will end up in politics, but there is a high profile person absolutely blaming them rather than looking at the issues you highlight that may be a factor here. 

But let's be clear, there is absolutely a movement to blame Asian people for not following the rules. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

It's remedial action that is required. For sure, Imams are working hard to persuade people but when, as my friend pointed out,  some of his friends and relatives in the uk ..mainly watch Pakistani or Indian soaps, news and films, don't read British newspapers or watch British tv., no Panorama,  no Silent Witness etc. They don't get the warnings that go out on the media, Spotify etc. 

At thd outset I raised the issue of translation etc on the politicalsub forum.

 

Yes, but as a country we can't just complain they don't watch what we do, we need to adapt comms to different groups for things that are life and death. 

Comms has been a challenge for all people in the UK though, and even harder since the daily conference was scrapped. I think that needs to change, particularly now as the message becomes more important than ever. 

[JohnM]

57 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'll not say much more about Asian culture as we will end up in politics, but there is a high profile person absolutely blaming them rather than looking at the issues you highlight that may be a factor here. 

But let's be clear, there is absolutely a movement to blame Asian people for not following the rules. 

Its not politics though, as it does not involve policy.

I have actually discussed this at length with my fried referred to earlier and am due later this week to talk to him about the racism he has encountered here.

So, not "Asians" per se , but the culture of some, enough to merit consideration owing to the areas most affected..  In my view a disproportionate number.  A focus for attention, certainly. And  yes there are plenty of people right across our society who think the fuss is nonsense,  who want to assert their "freedom" and who are determined not to follow the rules even though they know perfectly well what they are. 

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Its not politics though, as it does not involve policy.

Not when the specific person in question blaming Asians ignoring the rules is a Conservative MP. 

Don't disagree with the rest of your post John. We just need to be careful to discuss these things like adults to avoid stirring up hatred. 

My wife works for a Sikh Charity and we regularly discuss the specific issues within this part of the community. 

[GeordieSaint]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

But let's be clear, there is absolutely a movement to blame Asian people for not following the rules. 

Plenty of posts pinging around on social media demonstrating absolutely that...

[Bedford Roughyed]

 

[glemiln]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-major-incident-declared-in-greater-manchester-after-covid-19-rise-12041276

A central command structure -   “no more than to boost our resources”. The MEN reporting that the Army could be called in to help!