coronavirus

[Bedford Roughyed]

3 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Those people died before they probably would have done if they hadn't had Covid and that is the point really.

Completely agree.  

[fevtom]

2 hours ago, BryanC said:

Quotes from NHS announcement "A further 823 people have died in hospital in England after testing positive for coronavirus, NHS England said on Saturday."

"...33 had no known underlying health conditions"

That doesn't in any way, shape or form report that the virus was cause of death for at least 790 of these unlucky people (which is nearly 96%).

As a dyed in the wool betting man, I'm pretty sure that the odds are vastly in my favour that I'm correct.

Go on, tell me otherwise.

 

 

Patients are currently only being tested for Covid-19 if they are hospitalised with respiratory  problems so it’s fair to say that for the vast majority the virus is their main condition. It’s not like we’re routinely swabbing everyone who dies of an MI or stroke and finding incidental cases of Covid-19. It’s possible that other infections are present as well but we know Covid-19 is more dangerous than other common infections.

I think it’s worth pointing out that the percentage if people with “underlying medical conditions” is probably much higher than people imagine. Almost half of all adults have hypertension, it could be up to two thirds of over 50’s. If you’re over 50 you most likely fit into the category of having underlying health conditions wether you realise it or not.

 

 

[ckn]

1 hour ago, graveyard johnny said:

don't worry ckn is just as quick to let it through for his own agendas- the corona politics thread is separate - if the mods cant handle the forums then let me do it

Give it a break will you? This is my one day off and I could be doing without this. The only reason I’m even seeing your posts as others quoted them. 

If you don’t like the way the forum is moderated then you have a clear option 

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Saintslass said:

There were stocks for a flu pandemic response.  That was all used very quickly. 

So the government didnt have enough stocks to handle a pandemic.

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

Bryan C type

[ckn]

Two more healthcare workers dead today.

 

[Robin Evans]

Just now, ckn said:

Two more healthcare workers dead today.

 

This is dreadful... I'm genuinely sh itting myself cos I'm clinical facing next week.

 

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

This is dreadful... I'm genuinely sh itting myself cos I'm clinical facing next week.

 

I don't blame you and obviously wish you well.

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

Hope all the PPE is there for you and it is ok. Stay safe.

[Damien]

This is a very sad article remembering some of the NHS workers that have lost their lives. Reading about the sacrifices and their personal stories really brings it home:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52242856

[Saintslass]

A consortium of Cambridge based engineers has developed a different sort of ventilator:

A ‘cutting-edge’ ventilator, backed by the family of Stephen Hawking, is due to be trialled in the fight against coronavirus.  

The new model, named Exovent, is a reinvention of the 'iron lung’, a Negative Pressure Ventilator which saved the lives of thousands of polio victims in the 20th century.

While traditional ventilators require patients to be sedated and sometimes  paralysed, Exovent is non-invasive and can be used on a normal ward, reducing the strain on intensive care units.

The device also allows patients to remain conscious during treatment and it is not reliant on oxygen - which has become a precious resource for hospitals treating large numbers of  coronavirus patients. 

Taken from the Telegraph rolling news of today

[ckn]

I had posted five separate Tweets showing five nurses who died in the last 24hrs of COVID-19. I removed them because it was just too grim. I may add them again later if others want me to do so.

If NHS staff have been properly protected then why does this happen?

[Northern Eel]

23 minutes ago, ckn said:

I had posted five separate Tweets showing five nurses who died in the last 24hrs of COVID-19. I removed them because it was just too grim. I may add them again later if others want me to do so.

If NHS staff have been properly protected then why does this happen?

Is it that they haven’t been given (enough of) the right equipment, they may have caught it elsewhere other than in work, or a combination of the two?

 

[SSoutherner]

11 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

Is it that they haven’t been given (enough of) the right equipment, they may have caught it elsewhere other than in work, or a combination of the two?

 

One would think that a nurse would know how to protect themselves out of work having spent all day/night/shift working in an infectious environment

And you cant catch it in a combination of 2 things - you catch it in one place one point intime - further exposure is irrelevant

[Saintslass]

38 minutes ago, ckn said:

I had posted five separate Tweets showing five nurses who died in the last 24hrs of COVID-19. I removed them because it was just too grim. I may add them again later if others want me to do so.

If NHS staff have been properly protected then why does this happen?

According to reports, at least two of those who have sadly died today had been ill for three weeks.  They could have caught the virus anywhere, especially back then.

[JohnM]

Daily life in Italy. Worth a read right to the end.

https://www.louthleader.co.uk/news/people/lincolnshire-couple-moved-abroad-good-life-now-they-face-daily-battle-survive-2534707

[Bedford Roughyed]

Just now, SSoutherner said:

One would think that a nurse would know how to protect themselves out of work having spent all day/night/shift working in an infectious environment

And you cant catch it in a combination of 2 things - you catch it in one place one point intime - further exposure is irrelevant

Some will be from outside work, transport, home etc.  How you separate them out in the probable HSE inquiry I have no idea.  

[Saintslass]

Some people instinctively know how to cheer you up, God bless 'em

 

[Northern Eel]

5 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

One would think that a nurse would know how to protect themselves out of work having spent all day/night/shift working in an infectious environment

And you cant catch it in a combination of 2 things - you catch it in one place one point intime - further exposure is irrelevant

Granted that’s highly likely, but that doesn’t mean they are 100% sure not to catch it anywhere other than work. I don’t know about you, but I am at my weakest and most fallible at the end of a long shift.

Terribly, terribly sad, whatever the circumstances.

[ckn]

9 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

Granted that’s highly likely, but that doesn’t mean they are 100% sure not to catch it anywhere other than work. I don’t know about you, but I am at my weakest and most fallible at the end of a long shift.

Terribly, terribly sad, whatever the circumstances.

It does make a hell of a coincidence for all if they caught it outside of work. 

[Bob8]

59 minutes ago, ckn said:

I had posted five separate Tweets showing five nurses who died in the last 24hrs of COVID-19. I removed them because it was just too grim. I may add them again later if others want me to do so.

If NHS staff have been properly protected then why does this happen?

My sister in Australia is working in ICU with full PPE.

She reckons that in a pandemic without full PPE, none of them would fo to work out of fear. I actually do not believe her, but have no real right to that opinion.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

Good to see that the lockdown isn't causing folk to behave oddly https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-52252003

[Northern Eel]

24 minutes ago, ckn said:

It does make a hell of a coincidence for all if they caught it outside of work. 

I wasn’t suggesting that they all might have. Far from it. 

[BryanC]

5 hours ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

Bryan C type

Er, no.

Is that how "successful" Welsh people dress?

(Not including Tom Jones, obv)

[JohnM]

Any death is a tragedy.  Every death is a tragedy.  Even more so when those who died have been working on the front line. 
In my opinion, the received impression is that the doctors, nurses etc who have succumbed have been infected on duty. In addition, the clear impression given is that with more (or in some cases, any) PPE, things would have been different.  All that might be true, and indeed if it helps overall, that is no bad thing. 

It is important, though, that the facts are known. Working on the front line must be stressful enough at the moment without the anxiety that you might contract the virus because of that.  In addition, If it is shown that not all the victims were infected at work, that might well reduce their anxiety.  Not only that, anxiety amongst Covid 19 patients is already high, as it is with other who might need to go to hospital for other emergencies and that needs adressing with the facts.  It is important, is it not, to base future action on fact, otherwise mistakes may be made. 

Similarly with the issue of PPE. What people want and feel safe with, what people need, what PHE says and what WHO says and what the trades unions (BMA, RCN etc) say are different things. I say, just give em what they want (if possible). Still, some s## t of a reporter will have a go.

This is where the reporters at the daily press conference come in: asking the right questions. Once again today, they came up short, very short, very very short. They seem to be more concerned with showing how clever they are (not) rather than trying to get answers to key questions, leaving us none the wiser.