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19 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

I would imagine it is because they see the death figures and are very reasonably scared.

I don't want the lockdown to stop.  I experienced incredible strain before the lockdown when I could sense how things were changing and yet I still had to protect my mum while going to work on an overcrowded train into an overcrowded office.  I don't want that strain back again; I don't want to be in a position where I let my guard down for a moment and accidentally bring the virus to my mum.  My brother has had it and my mum's lifelong friend has today died of it.  I don't want the lockdown to end until the death rate is negligible.  

I can understand that too- sorry saintslass 

they come swinging round that corner, they think they're benny goodman

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I'm not putting up with this goading of a volunteer moderator who does a sterling job on my behalf generally on here, but especially recently when I was ill for almost a month with what might well hav

Well my sister's fella is making very small steps in the right direction. From being described as as near to death without being dead, he's now sat up, off dialysis and yesterday was breathing on

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8 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

If he'd been advised in advance not to have the BBQ party, his punishment is more understandable. I still don't think much of the decision, but the fallout makes more sense.

This fits firmly into the class of “idiot orders” as described here

The post-tour decompression urinate-up has been around since the first guy thousands of years ago became a full-time squaddie. Telling a sub commander to not do this is the idiot sort of thing that normally gets officers filtered out before they can get into positions of authority.

It only makes sense to me if you think the senior officer ordering it is sniffing around for a Knighthood and trying to suck up to the political drones.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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11 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

The submarine commander who allowed his lads to have a BBQ has been sacked

Naval sources told the BBC that Cdr Lewis had been advised both by his senior officers on shore and some of his own officers on the submarine not to go ahead with the party.

A senior defence source said it was one of a number of instances that had undermined trust and credibility in his command.

Cdr Lewis will remain in the Royal Navy but will be assigned another role.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-52464885 

Perhaps the Royal Navy could tell us how submariners at sea are keeping 2metres apart?

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Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

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1 hour ago, Wolford6 said:

Perhaps the Royal Navy could tell us how submariners at sea are keeping 2metres apart?

Indeed.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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4 hours ago, Wolford6 said:

Perhaps the Royal Navy could tell us how submariners at sea are keeping 2metres apart?

yes get the point.

But the article says senior officers said he shouldn't let the party go ahead.   Does that mean he ignored senior commanders orders... then he should be punished by being re-assigned.

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1 hour ago, redjonn said:

yes get the point.

But the article says senior officers said he shouldn't let the party go ahead.   Does that mean he ignored senior commanders orders... then he should be punished by being re-assigned.

At worst, it should have been a meeting without coffee with the Admiral. Now, his career is over. He won't get another promotion and will be unlikely to get another command.

Or at best, the Admiral's boss should have told him to not be so bloody stupid and let the boat crew have some time to decompress.

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"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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Just now, ckn said:

At worst, it should have been a meeting without coffee with the Admiral. Now, his career is over. He won't get another promotion and will be unlikely to get another command.

Or at best, the Admiral's boss should have told him to not be so bloody stupid and let the boat crew have some time to decompress.

personally I would not have thought a knees up/party was a problem... especially to let off steam after being couped up.

Never-the-less if ignoring senior commanders then its a whole different kettle... no matter whether agree or not

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1 minute ago, redjonn said:

personally I would not have thought a knees up/party was a problem... especially to let off steam after being couped up.

Never-the-less if ignoring senior commanders then its a whole different kettle... no matter whether agree or not

One of the lessons you learn in even the lowest levels of army leadership training is to not issue orders that are likely to be ignored or treated as bloody stupid as when you REALLY need compliance then it should be immediate rather than tained by your bloody stupid previous utterings. It should be as much of a career limiting option for the order issuer as it was for the US Secretary of the Navy dismissing the US Navy carrier Captian.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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4 minutes ago, ckn said:

One of the lessons you learn in even the lowest levels of army leadership training is to not issue orders that are likely to be ignored or treated as bloody stupid as when you REALLY need compliance then it should be immediate rather than tained by your bloody stupid previous utterings. It should be as much of a career limiting option for the order issuer as it was for the US Secretary of the Navy dismissing the US Navy carrier Captian.

your may be right - was it a nuclear submarine carrying nuclear arms, as I guess commanders may be overly cautious to someone ignoring advice from senior commanders.

I don't know hence question.

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A potentially worrying report 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/airborne-coronavirus-detected-in-wuhan-hospitals/ar-BB13mqDY?ocid=spartanntp

Adding to growing evidence that the novel coronavirus can spread through the air, scientists have identified genetic markers of the virus in airborne droplets, many with diameters smaller than one-ten-thousandth of an inch.

That had been previously demonstrated in laboratory experiments, but now Chinese scientists studying real-world conditions report that they captured tiny droplets containing the genetic markers of the virus from the air in two hospitals in Wuhan, China, where the outbreak started.

It remains unknown if the virus in the samples they collected was infectious, but droplets that small, which are expelled by breathing and talking, can remain aloft and be inhaled by others.

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6 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

A potentially worrying report 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/airborne-coronavirus-detected-in-wuhan-hospitals/ar-BB13mqDY?ocid=spartanntp

Adding to growing evidence that the novel coronavirus can spread through the air, scientists have identified genetic markers of the virus in airborne droplets, many with diameters smaller than one-ten-thousandth of an inch.

That had been previously demonstrated in laboratory experiments, but now Chinese scientists studying real-world conditions report that they captured tiny droplets containing the genetic markers of the virus from the air in two hospitals in Wuhan, China, where the outbreak started.

It remains unknown if the virus in the samples they collected was infectious, but droplets that small, which are expelled by breathing and talking, can remain aloft and be inhaled by others.

The significance is this might be (I do not know) unclear. It is remarkable how little we actually understand about the transmission about many viruses.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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2 hours ago, redjonn said:

your may be right - was it a nuclear submarine carrying nuclear arms, as I guess commanders may be overly cautious to someone ignoring advice from senior commanders.

I don't know hence question.

HMS Trenchant is a (very old) Hunter Killer Submarine, it carries Torpedoes and Cruise Missiles but not Nuclear Missiles in the same way as Trident.

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This is very sad from BBC latest news and shows just how fatal the virus is in those with severest symptoms:

Third of hospitalised Covid-19 patients in UK have died, study finds

The biggest study of Covid-19 patients in the UK shows a third admitted to hospital have died.

Just under half have been discharged, with the rest still being treated.

Prof Calum Semple, the chief investigator from the University of Liverpool, said the "crude hospital fatality rate is of the same magnitude as Ebola".

He said around 35-40% of hospitalised Ebola patients die.

"People need to hear this... this is an incredibly dangerous disease."

Nearly 17,000 patients from 166 hospitals were part of the study. Obesity and age both increased the risk of death.

The study also confirmed that men are more likely to have severe disease, and the gap between outcomes for men and women gets wider with age.

 

 

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the irony that we are buying masks etc from china is beyond comprehension - they should be shipping them round the world as fast as they can for free with a big SORRY written  on the side of the boxes 

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they come swinging round that corner, they think they're benny goodman

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2 hours ago, Damien said:

This is very sad from BBC latest news and shows just how fatal the virus is in those with severest symptoms:

Third of hospitalised Covid-19 patients in UK have died, study finds

The biggest study of Covid-19 patients in the UK shows a third admitted to hospital have died.

Just under half have been discharged, with the rest still being treated.

Prof Calum Semple, the chief investigator from the University of Liverpool, said the "crude hospital fatality rate is of the same magnitude as Ebola".

He said around 35-40% of hospitalised Ebola patients die.

"People need to hear this... this is an incredibly dangerous disease."

Nearly 17,000 patients from 166 hospitals were part of the study. Obesity and age both increased the risk of death.

The study also confirmed that men are more likely to have severe disease, and the gap between outcomes for men and women gets wider with age.

 

 

Re the sex differences. Germany's positive tests break down as 48% men, 52% women but deaths are 57% men, 43% women.

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3 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

the irony that we are buying masks etc from china is beyond comprehension - they should be shipping them round the world as fast as they can for free with a big SORRY written  on the side of the boxes 

Sadly, we've relied on them for so long that we have no choice.  Hopefully, once this pandemic is finally under control (hopefully that will happen eventually) we can build a serious supply chain here in the UK so that we are never again so utterly dependent upon a country like China in a situation such as this.

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25 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Sadly, we've relied on them for so long that we have no choice.  Hopefully, once this pandemic is finally under control (hopefully that will happen eventually) we can build a serious supply chain here in the UK so that we are never again so utterly dependent upon a country like China in a situation such as this.

Or better still design something better 

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30 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Or better still design something better 

In relation to gowns, that is already happening.  There are a couple of British firms now manufacturing washable gowns using a water repellent material (different from the disposables).  They can't manufacture an endless amount apparently because they have only been able to secure a limited amount of the necessary material but each garment can be washed 100 times at the necessary temperature before they become useless.  Baby steps.

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21 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

In relation to gowns, that is already happening.  There are a couple of British firms now manufacturing washable gowns using a water repellent material (different from the disposables).  They can't manufacture an endless amount apparently because they have only been able to secure a limited amount of the necessary material but each garment can be washed 100 times at the necessary temperature before they become useless.  Baby steps.

In truth the nurses that used their brains when in a crisis using cagoules are nearly there , but it is the masks that are the biggest sticking point 

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

In truth the nurses that used their brains when in a crisis using cagoules are nearly there , but it is the masks that are the biggest sticking point 

Masks are being made all over the place, from big companies to schools and their 3D printers.  I think one of the car manufacturers is making masks to scale (the one in Sunderland).  It's just never enough at the moment.

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1 minute ago, Saintslass said:

Masks are being made all over the place, from big companies to schools and their 3D printers.  I think one of the car manufacturers is making masks to scale (the one in Sunderland).  It's just never enough at the moment.

It never will be , given the number of countries now advising their whole populations to wear them 

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