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4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Young people have had messages at them for weeks now telling them that it's basically their duty to go out and get the economy moving.

By and large, and I realise anecdote is not data, I'm seeing the same level of 'rules following' from all ages and backgrounds. Pretty much total compliance with masks, vague attempts at social distancing in shops, complete breakdown of distancing outside.

yep notice similar re:last sentence.

Although I'm guessing those that don't move around others are the same when in normal non covid times don't move when you walking towards them.  A lot of self centred people that expect others to move to allow them passed rather them moving. especial those holding hands and never think of releasing each other when another couple is walking towards them so that you have skip into road to avoid. 

Really gets my missus moaning so much that sometimes she just makes sure we stop right in front and await their reaction to suddenly be aware of us.  As I say its probably same type of people covid or not that are inconsiderate..

Maybe its only our town.... with so many self centred xxxxxx

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2 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Funnily I was just suggesting this possibility to Mrs S this morning 

Pubs or "other activities" in England may need to close to allow schools to reopen next month, a scientist advising the government has said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53621613

should get a rush to the pub this week end... then just in case...

Although to fair to our local country pub its all very "covid secure". Plenty of space between tables when eating inside or out.   Strict no standing at the bar, plus your met at the door and guided to seat in the Pub or eating area.  Waiter only service... everywhere.

Me thinks its more the city centre or town pubs where large groups gather, inside and out and certainly and not sure how the waiter service works with the large groups standing outside all close together....

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6 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

They've been rising for a month, starting around the time you'd expect from the last beach invasions. 

Not according to the positive test figures or the ONS extrapolation data.

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5 hours ago, redjonn said:

question for me is where are the beach goers coming from... 

I mean I would drive for 5 hours just for a day at the beach, whereas as I live in North Yorkshire I may drive to Yorkshire coast/beach, say no more than 2 hours. For me that far enough given pain of driving & we know traffic jams on nice days.

In other words I assume most people are like me and its people from within a reasonable area of the resort/beach.  As distinct from what some residents of those are'a bemoan as if their all coming from a massive distance away.

They are simply all the people who can't go abroad at the moment.  This is what we would have been looking like for years had package holidays to Spain not been a thing!  They'll be travelling from all over I should wonder. 

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4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Young people have had messages at them for weeks now telling them that it's basically their duty to go out and get the economy moving.

Not just young people actually.  We all need to work.  We certainly shouldn't continue to be paid by the taxpayer.  I am sure many employers have worked hard to make workplaces as covid secure as possible.  Whether young people will take any notice is another matter.  They don't at my place and it's a very covid secure office with loads of space and yet still they walk close to each other and talk in each other's faces.

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Another four people have died of Covid in hospital in England today, the lowest number since whenever but is a continuation of very, very low Covid death numbers in English hospitals for a few weeks now. That is added to two deaths in Wales, none in Scotland and none in Northern Ireland.

But I bet by about 5pm the number of deaths in the UK will have gone up to 3,000 over the last 24 hours when the mysterious PHE figures are added.

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I really do dispair sometimes,just been to b&q for some door fittings,two women both coughing and spluttering all way round,but thought it easy to cough better with mask pulled down, then we have taxis pulling up getting folks shopping out the boot with no masks,and other folks clammbering to get in same cab,some brave folks about.

no cleaning before next person jumps in taxi,how the heel do you keep 6ft away when your 2 foot at back a driver??> and your touching the door hadles.seat back of front seat when maybe 20 other customers have been in same taxi that morning.

If the virus is airborne spread then outdoors is more of a risk than indoors as it would be carried further by the wind.the lets get locked down and be safe.

So many are looking for mistaken reasons to resume normal life, that is in itself a danger, as when people were in lockdown so was the virus, as people are released from lockdown, again so is the virus.

 

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8 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

Another four people have died of Covid in hospital in England today, the lowest number since whenever but is a continuation of very, very low Covid death numbers in English hospitals for a few weeks now. That is added to two deaths in Wales, none in Scotland and none in Northern Ireland.

But I bet by about 5pm the number of deaths in the UK will have gone up to 3,000 over the last 24 hours when the mysterious PHE figures are added.

I don't understand why the methodology isn't consistent across the UK.

Either PHS/ Scotland and other home nations are deliberate misleading or PHE are being stubborn. 

Don't care what method but as a lay person PHE approach just seems nonsense -  every positve test will result in a Covid death if we wait long enough in compiling the figures - thats currently over 300000.

Edited by redjonn
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20 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

They are simply all the people who can't go abroad at the moment.  This is what we would have been looking like for years had package holidays to Spain not been a thing!  They'll be travelling from all over I should wonder. 

yep I get your comment - I can see that over a weekend, but I do wonder when its not week days when people would normally be working when not taking holiday time..

That of course leads us to what the demographic is of those able to be on the beach week days when not taking holiday time.

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1 hour ago, Saintslass said:

Not according to the positive test figures or the ONS extrapolation data.

ONS figures:

22nd June - 5th July - 14000 estimated to have CV

6th - 12th July - 24000

13th - 19th July - 27700

20th -26th July - 35700

There are some big uncertainties on those numbers which is why they've only just said that numbers are definitely increasing, but.....

Also see graph in next post. 

 

 

 

Edited by Les Tonks Sidestep
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On 31/07/2020 at 19:38, Saintslass said:

Red, they aren't guidelines.  They are the law. 

I haven't seen the new laws. just Hancock saying it is the law.

I'd also add another neighbour has 4 or 5 mates round now.

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3 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

ONS figures:

22nd June - 5th July - 14000 estimated to have CV

6th - 12th July - 24000

13th - 19th July - 27700

20th -26th July - 35700

There are some big uncertainties on those numbers which is why they've only just said that numbers are definitely increasing, but.....

Also see graph in next post. 

 

 

 

Maybe I should have been more specific.  The ONS extrapolations I'm talking about are those which tell us (based on the ONS testing exercise) how many per thousands are believed to have Covid.  They are released on a weekly basis.  So the last week it was 1 in 1,500; the previous week 1 in 1,700 and the week prior to that 1 in 2000.  This confusion between us points to a problem for us mere mortals: there are a few different figures around and so who knows which are the best to follow.  This confusion is why (as I've said previously, possibly in a now deleted post) I tend to stick with the numbers of positive tests while keeping in mind that there will also be some people who get a sniffle but don't get tested (thinking it's just a sniffle) and the asymptomatics of course. 

The seven day rolling average of positive tests you posted does show a steady rise in cases but for the first couple of weeks in July they were bouncing around between around 500 and around 750.  Over the last couple of weeks the numbers have consistently been in the 700s and of course now have hit the 800s.  Why that is I don't know.  It could be because we are now testing like crazy, especially in the hot spots, but when I looked at the most recent list of cases per local authority area (which my local paper produces each week), there had been a high number of rises, including in my own local authority area (albeit from 3 cases one week to 5 last week but we did have a few weeks with no cases at all).

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10 minutes ago, Red Willow said:

I haven't seen the new laws. just Hancock saying it is the law.

I'd also add another neighbour has 4 or 5 mates round now.

In which case, your area could be looking at a lockdown in the near future, depending upon whether others obey the law and carry your neighbour with them, which would simply be the same as has been happening all along IMO.

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4 hours ago, redjonn said:

yep I get your comment - I can see that over a weekend, but I do wonder when its not week days when people would normally be working when not taking holiday time..

That of course leads us to what the demographic is of those able to be on the beach week days when not taking holiday time.

There are still around 3.5 million on furlough don't forget and of course those working will not have taken holidays.  Where I work we were down to five people working on Friday out of a team of 30 as the rest had taken the day off (presumably to go to the beach - north west beaches were apparently as busy as the south coast ones).

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4 hours ago, silverback said:

If the virus is airborne spread then outdoors is more of a risk than indoors as it would be carried further by the wind.the lets get locked down and be safe.

According to the scientists it is precisely that carrying away which makes it safer outdoors as there is dissipation.  

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2 hours ago, Saintslass said:

According to the scientists it is precisely that carrying away which makes it safer outdoors as there is dissipation.  

But if someone coughs or sneezes nearby while your sat up park and its breezy out i reckon it will travel a fair distance more than in your front room,who knows but am told my other hobby with the racing is on hold a bit longer due to this case of it been spred in a crowd(sat 2m apart) while sat around track with the cars wafting past at high speeds?.

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9 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm now at the point where I am just completely fed up of people. I've tried my best to leave people to it and have a live and let live attitude for my own sanity, but now I've just had enough of people! 

I feel like we are in an episode of Black Mirror, all people are bothered about is taking photos and selfies and sod the virus and social distancing. I've been away for a few days so not really keeping up with things, but so many people are posting photos of them hugging people, arms round each other in groups, in cars together even in hot tubs that I assumed I must have missed a relaxation of rules. But no, they are just being ######. 

Same everywhere Dave. A few people have openly said they’ve had enough; that it’s impinging on their freedom not being able to do what they want and if some people die prematurely, then so be it. Couple of people in work are being d**** as well...

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1 hour ago, silverback said:

But if someone coughs or sneezes nearby while your sat up park and its breezy out i reckon it will travel a fair distance more than in your front room,who knows but am told my other hobby with the racing is on hold a bit longer due to this case of it been spred in a crowd(sat 2m apart) while sat around track with the cars wafting past at high speeds?.

Well, I can only repeat what the scientists said which was that it dissipates.

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16 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm now at the point where I am just completely fed up of people. I've tried my best to leave people to it and have a live and let live attitude for my own sanity, but now I've just had enough of people! 

I feel like we are in an episode of Black Mirror, all people are bothered about is taking photos and selfies and sod the virus and social distancing. I've been away for a few days so not really keeping up with things, but so many people are posting photos of them hugging people, arms round each other in groups, in cars together even in hot tubs that I assumed I must have missed a relaxation of rules. But no, they are just being ######. 

I went to a football match yesterday. It was at Westfield who are a 'Step 7' club and thus covered by grassroots rather than non league guidance. This means that as long as they follow certain rules (which, to be fair, they absolutely did: track and trace details, one way system and no tables/seats in the clubhouse, hand sanitiser available, changing rooms closed, social distancing signs, one in one out for the toilets marshalled by a security person) they can have people turn up and watch. Those rules are fine for when Westfield play AFC Uckfield II in the Mid Sussex League but, yesterday, they had  a friendly against Hastings. Hastings average gate was over 600 last year and the two clubs are less than a ten minute drive apart.

So this is what it looked like:

50177527381_f94f513d6c_z.jpg?resize=1400%2C9999&ssl=1

Being as kind as possible: most people standing next to each other definitely knew the people they were with. There were some gaps not obvious to a telephoto lens shot. But ...

Anyway, I had a good time. Enjoyed the match. Stood as far away from other people as possible. Didn't go inside. But if you want a reason why sports events have been paused then just look at how bunched a fixture at tiny Westfield gets on a nice sunny day when people haven't had live sport for months.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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8 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

Same everywhere Dave. A few people have openly said they’ve had enough; that it’s impinging on their freedom not being able to do what they want and if some people die prematurely, then so be it. Couple of people in work are being d**** as well...

My Mum is one of the worst. She keeps saying 'all we can do is our best' - well if your best is driving your friends around in your car, abandoning social distancing with her kids, having photos hugging her brothers, mixing with multiple households in the pub etc. then tbh, we are pretty goosed. 

But, you know, brown people. 

Edited by Dave T
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7 hours ago, Saintslass said:

Well, I can only repeat what the scientists said which was that it dissipates.

And i can only try be safe by reading up now and again rather than wifes tales.

When epidemiologists are working in the field, trying to understand an outbreak of an unknown pathogen, it's not possible for them to know exactly what's going on as a pathogen is spread from person to person, Milton says. "Epidemiologists cannot tell the difference between droplet transmission and short-range aerosol transmission."

He says these are hard questions to answer, and scientists still argue over how much of the transmission of influenza might be airborne. Some research shows that exhaled gas clouds from people contain a continuum of many droplet sizes and that a "high-momentum cloud" created by a cough or sneeze might carry droplets long distances.    (>>>> the virus can remain infectious in the air for up to two hours after an infected person leaves an area."<<<<)

What's more, one study of hospital rooms of patients with COVID-19 found that "swabs taken from the air exhaust outlets tested positive, suggesting that small virus-laden droplets may be displaced by airflows and deposited on equipment such as vents." probably same air filters used in planes venting ducts too.

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37 minutes ago, Dave T said:

My Mum is one of the worst. She keeps saying 'all we can do is our best' - well if your best is driving your friends around in your car, abandoning social distancing with her kids, having photos hugging her brothers, mixing with multiple households in the pub etc. then tbh, we are pretty goosed. 

But, you know, brown people. 

Yes, too many with that attitude. Yesterday at the M18/M180 services, entry well controlled with one way system, etc etc, as a couple of weeks ago but busier. In gents, Al but one person wore face masks. I challenged that one who said, nah, mate, it's all a load of ######. I'm 74 against his late 30s so I did not express my wish that he were infertile. 

As for your last statemt, we have a Bradford imam calling out that too many of his flock are indeed ignoring all the rules and imploring them to get with the programme. We have, as stated in my now-removed post, testimony from a good and trusted Muslim friend of mine that there is a huge cross generational problem, including amongst his extended family.  Yes, not the only reason for the problems in Bradford, Blackburn, etc etc but a significant contributory factor. 


Four legs good - two legs bad

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

My Mum is one of the worst. She keeps saying 'all we can do is our best' - well if your best is driving your friends around in your car, abandoning social distancing with her kids, having photos hugging her brothers, mixing with multiple households in the pub etc. then tbh, we are pretty goosed. 

But, you know, brown people. 

Actually you could replace your final sentence by 'But, you know, young people' as they have had as much responsibility laid at their door as 'brown people'.

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I see that Australia are now seriously struggling to get on top of their outbreak.  I am sure there was a time when the Australian press had a dig at us when we were being battered by the virus and they were doing a splendid job at suppressing it.  Vietnam has now had its first death from the virus after getting right on top of it as the infections are rising there too, albeit from a much lower base than in other places.  It seems to me that the only way to truly control this virus is to never meet others in your house, live your life entirely outdoors and completely close your borders, not letting anyone in or out ever.

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