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Boomer Bang Wool

Rugby league expansion - new lands or enemy territories?

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4 hours ago, aj1908 said:

Ottowa will succeed 

New York won't 

Imo

With all the current confusion I'm not sure the bids will move further...there is no support or co operation...its all being handled poorly, no plan or vision....there is no need for lawsuits and no one wants that except the lawyers.

I can't believe it but SL has broken one of the golden rules: "You don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

Edited by Kayakman

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4 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

With all the current confusion I'm not sure the bids will move further...there is no support or co operation...its all being handled poorly, no plan or vision....there is no need for lawsuits and no one wants that except the lawyers.

I can't believe it but SL has broken one of the golden rules: "You don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

Ottowa will be watching Toronto in super league 

And how elstone et al act

I think they will welcome Ottowa after Toronto have established themselves and the initial scepticism has worn off 

Edited by aj1908

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6 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Ottowa will be watching Toronto in super league 

And how elstone et al act

I think they will welcome Ottowa after Toronto have established themselves and the initial scepticism has worn off 

Things are happening currently in the Ottawa sports scene NOW.   One can't always go back...the time to strike in Ottawa is NOW!

An opportunity is being missed.

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6 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Things are happening currently in the Ottawa sports scene NOW.   One can't always go back...the time to strike in Ottawa is NOW!

An opportunity is being missed.

Lol.i thought I was impatient!

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5 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Things are happening currently in the Ottawa sports scene NOW.   One can't always go back...the time to strike in Ottawa is NOW!

An opportunity is being missed.

I believed that Ottawa were in next year. Are you saying there's a stumbling block? Some uncertainty about their inclusion?

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8 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I believed that Ottawa were in next year. Are you saying there's a stumbling block? Some uncertainty about their inclusion?

Maybe.

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Why?

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4 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Maybe.

Why?

 

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13 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Why?

 

Well...there have been rumblings about the soccer team folding and a new team being created in Ottawa by one the main players on the bid..that will cost money.....his energies seem to be focused there...little if any mention of it in the press over here.   What I can glean from the terms there is still some problems with the Hemel license and them wanting central funding...they are still working on that.

Problems between the SL, RFL and Wolfpack don't help...I think people are waiting, watching, waiting.   Its best to wrap these things up and not leave partially completed deals hanging out there.  It would help if the powers that be came out with a statement fully supporting expansion in Canada.

Alot of different variables at play.

Edited by Kayakman
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To expand,

The (strong) rumour is that Atletico Madrid is entering a team into the Canadian Premier League in Ottawa, with Jeff Hunt (one of the main partners of OSEG) to be the lead local figure. OSEG shut down their soccer team at the end of 2019, so the partnership as a whole doesn't seem to be interested in soccer and will be happy to have another group paying for stadium dates at TD Place, which OSEG manages. TD Place is where Ottawa RL is supposed to be playing come 2021. 

Eric Perez was quick to mention support from OSEG, but I don't believe they are actually involved as owners in Ottawa RL. To me it read more like this new soccer situation, they are happy to rent out the stadium and possibly other facilities, and maybe able to provide marketing help etc.

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On 29/01/2020 at 10:34, FknNewy said:

Manchester needs a team under the “Manchester” banner. Hopefully the Rangers can get a go at some point. 

They should have been let in last season when they applied. 

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On 28/01/2020 at 14:17, TheReaper said:

To expand,

The (strong) rumour is that Atletico Madrid is entering a team into the Canadian Premier League in Ottawa, with Jeff Hunt (one of the main partners of OSEG) to be the lead local figure. OSEG shut down their soccer team at the end of 2019, so the partnership as a whole doesn't seem to be interested in soccer and will be happy to have another group paying for stadium dates at TD Place, which OSEG manages. TD Place is where Ottawa RL is supposed to be playing come 2021. 

Eric Perez was quick to mention support from OSEG, but I don't believe they are actually involved as owners in Ottawa RL. To me it read more like this new soccer situation, they are happy to rent out the stadium and possibly other facilities, and maybe able to provide marketing help etc.

Athletico Madrid ownership of the new soccer franchise confirmed.

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4 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Athletico Madrid ownership of the new soccer franchise confirmed.

I'm listening K'man but what do you think it all means for the Ottawa RL's future? 

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1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

 

I'm listening K'man but what do you think it all means for the Ottawa RL's future? 

Probably not much - there was an existing soccer team in Ottawa when OttRL was announced, and there will be a soccer team now. 

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1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

 

I'm listening K'man but what do you think it all means for the Ottawa RL's future? 

It is yet to be seen but I think that the Ottawa sports scene is ripe plucking...that is why Athletico Madrid is in....Ottawa should have been in this year to take advantage of the situation.   Halifax is also a clear winner...but not alot of vision in the SL/RFL higher echelons.....and there is a clear bias against foreign entries....the anti TWP bias is just sad....some of these guys are not the crispiest Doritos in the bag.

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Canada, South of France, PIs, York to name a few. One thing Toronto has done is bring some smarter marketing to the game. Our imagine is slowly starting to modernise which is good. 

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We really need to push the women’s game, wheel chair, touch rugby etc those versions of the game will help spread the sport far and wide.

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On 27/01/2020 at 21:19, JonM said:

Of the 200+ countries in the world, RU is a factor in maybe 8-10 of them (being generous). Hardly seems worth worrying about.

Its a huge factor a lot of t2 nations move their seasons just to not clash with RU

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On 27/01/2020 at 08:27, aj1908 said:

We should aim for areas where union is played.  They would've done the hard work getting rugby established 

We can then piggyback off this with our game being superior 

France  in the 30s and Canada now are.excellent.examples 

 

How not to win friends and influence people. 

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On 27/01/2020 at 08:20, Damien said:

Subtle very subtle YK.

I'm of the opinion that Union shouldn't even come into it. We should be looking to facilitate expansion anywhere where there are people interested in expanding the game.

I think the poster you responded to makes a valid point. I’ve yet to see a place where the two codes co-exist. They are after all competing for the same playing pool. Where one has a strong presence the others is weak. Always thought a non rugby playing nation (95% of the planet) was the best bet for RL growth.

 

Ive often been puzzled at these expansion debates. For me, expansion means the game being played in a new territory. International heritage teams for example is not expansion, as the playing footprint hasn’t actually spread. The emphasis should be on getting kids to play the game, a grassroots approach. Throwing money at clubs seems a waste (how much has been spent on London over the years, for little return?) What evidence is there that the top down approach works? (as well as international heritage teams, this includes setting up clubs in far off places and filling them with Aussies/English etc). 

Ive also seen expansionist devotees post links to amateur games being played in far off places. Great that those are taking place, but do people from here really want to watch those? You would need to be an absolute diehard to watch that level of play. When it comes to comes to rugby league, I’m only interested in Super League, the highest level in the game.

Similarly from a football standpoint, I’m only interested in the Premier League (and Barcelona vs Real Madrid games). Great that it’s played in leagues around the world, but not because I want to watch any of them, but because theres a bigger pool of talent that can play in the Premier League (117 different nationalities to date). Ultimately if you support St Helens you want to be able to pick RL players from around the world. Greater playing pool means greater quality. My own team Liverpool having a forward line made up of Salah from Egypt, Mane from Senegal, Firmino from Brazil, midfielders from Holland, Japan, England, Guinea, Switzerland. If we could only call on two or three nations, the quality would be nowhere near as good. That’s the great benefit of genuine expansion, a global playing pool to pick from, but without feeling the need to watch any of those leagues. 

Edited by DC77

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8 hours ago, DC77 said:

Similarly from a football standpoint, I’m only interested in the Premier League (and Barcelona vs Real Madrid games). Great that it’s played in leagues around the world, but not because I want to watch any of them, but because theres a bigger pool of talent that can play in the Premier League (117 different nationalities to date). Ultimately if you support St Helens you want to be able to pick RL players from around the world. Greater playing pool means greater quality. My own team Liverpool having a forward line made up of Salah from Egypt, Mane from Senegal, Firmino from Brazil, midfielders from Holland, Japan, England, Guinea, Switzerland. If we could only call on two or three nations, the quality would be nowhere near as good. That’s the great benefit of genuine expansion, a global playing pool to pick from, but without feeling the need to watch any of those leagues. 

Get real,  St Helens will never be able to pick RL players from around the world.  The Aviva Premiership salary cap is about 3.5 times the SL salary cap and even teams in the Pro14 pay out about 3 times as much money as SL teams.  Until RL has a competition able to generate the sort of revenues needed to fund a much higher salary cap it will be plagued by a player drain and it won't ever generate that revenue with a top tier full of teams from small places like St Helens.

Edited by Big Picture

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On 27/01/2020 at 05:54, Boomer Bang Wool said:

This is something I’ve recently thought about. We all want league to grow and expand but the question is, should we aim for new territories (areas with no union presence) or take them on where they exist? I’m torn on it but I’m leaning towards the former. I’ve seen plenty of people suggest places like Argentina, Uruguay, South Africa etc. 

To those people I ask, why is your first thought to go to those places? There are plenty of countries in the world, most of which without any union presence so I’m puzzled as to why we need to follow union everywhere. It can be done. Take the likes of Jamaica, Serbia, Nigeria etc. Those are league success stories, ones where we didn’t need to ride the coattails of union. 

I don’t want to come across as an union apologist but we cannot act surprised when union plays dirty in those countries in response to a rival who is attempting to bear the fruits of their hard work. And it certainly is hard work expanding into new territories. I think we should be targeting new territories with little to no union to speak of.

This is just my opinion anyway. What are your thoughts? 

I think rugby union is a complete red herring.

If you want a club to work, in Australia or Austra, Northern England or Northern America etc. makes no odds.

- Suitable, stable stadium arrangement. Lamport works well, Broncos moving around did not.
- Suitable host city. Ideally, a large propsperous underdeveloped sports market (so not London or Bridgend) or entrenched traditional market
- Suitable management, ideally the most famous person at the club should not be the owner. Investment in the club rather than the team.
- Financial backing, but so that it can support itself soon.

I do not see the wealth in Belgrade for a Super League club, nor Jamaica, Nigeria etc. What they do have is a niche for development. They are at the economic stage that the UK used to be so the grass roots development that used to work in the UK can work there. The challnge in more advanced economies is to use techniques that the UK is not yet ready for.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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