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1 minute ago, Jim Prendle said:

It seems to me that Catalans have the moral issue, not the whole of RL.

That seems to be the tone of the RFL/SL response.

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Israel Folau happens to believe in something that the vast majority of us believe is nonsensical.

But then most major religions take aim at homosexuality to a greater or lesser degree.

One of my daughters is an evangelical Christian who, if I quizzed her on it, would probably have some opinions that I would profoundly disagree with, including who will and who won't squeeze through the pearly gates to enter heaven. I'm fairly sure she would probably believe that I wouldn't qualify.

But given that I don't believe in the concept, I don't see why it should upset me.

Has Folau actually tried to harm any gay people, other than saying that if they engage in homosexuality they will probably go to hell, while lumping a number of other behaviour types into the same category, as has already been pointed out on here?

Unfortunately a number of commentators swooped on his comments when he made them and amplified their importance out of all proportion to their actual importance.

If we genuinely believe in diversity then we should realise that diversity means having gay people mixing freely with religious people so that the two groups can more readily understand each other.

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10 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

In what way is his life more pure than ours?

I don't cheat on my wife, or steal or commit crimes or hurt anyone deliberately etc etc.

And as an atheist, it's not that I don't do any of this because I fear being burned in an eternal fire or seek eternal life sitting on a cloud. I don't do them because I am a decent human being who believes in the essential morality of humanity and the ethics of behaving in a moral way.

Who is more moral, the person who is following the teaching of a supreme being seeking reward or fearing punishment or the person who acts morally purely through choice?

This is at the heart of things for me . I know it’s a whole wider debate but I was brought up catholic but have become more and more agnostic , emphasised by the total hypocrisy in the church . I don’t need religion to tell me how to behave . My upbringing , my parents , my family , my conscience and education etc instils right and wrong and how to conduct myself . Said it before , religion can be warped to back up anything you want . It really is a huge irony and at the heart of so much trouble , and the sooner we’re without the better imo

Edited by DavidM
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2 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

It seems to me that Catalans have the moral issue, not the whole of RL.

They could sign 1000 Israel folou and still be ok morally after the banning of rugby league In the 40s.

They can't get a tv deal.  The sport is stagnant.  This helps them win games. 

Or is it just acceptable for rugby league to have higher morals and no money 

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1 minute ago, aj1908 said:

Yeh I am 

Playing in the backs won't be hard to transition back 

Not as hard as in the forwards maybe, but how many carries does the average union fullback or winger make compared to the League equivalent? If he plays fullback, he'll be expected to do things he hasn't done for ten years. Wherever he plays he'll be taking a lot more contact than he has been used to.


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6 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

In what way is his life more pure than ours?

I don't cheat on my wife, or steal or commit crimes or hurt anyone deliberately etc etc.

And as an atheist, it's not that I don't do any of this because I fear being burned in an eternal fire or seek eternal life sitting on a cloud. I don't do them because I am a decent human being who believes in the essential morality of humanity and the ethics of behaving in a moral way.

Who is more moral, the person who is following the teaching of a supreme being seeking reward or fearing punishment or the person who acts morally purely through choice?

The greatest of all faults is to be conscious of none.

Dominus Vobiscum. 🕯️

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Well done Wigan, effectively trolling Catalans and Falou whilst at the same time getting loads of publicity.

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1 minute ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Israel Folau happens to believe in something that the vast majority of us believe is nonsensical.

But then most major religions take aim at homosexuality to a greater or lesser degree.

One of my daughters is an evangelical Christian who, if I quizzed her on it, would probably have some opinions that I would profoundly disagree with, including who will and who won't squeeze through the pearly gates to enter heaven. I'm fairly sure she would probably believe that I wouldn't qualify.

But given that I don't believe in the concept, I don't see why it should upset me.

Has Folau actually tried to harm any gay people, other than saying that if they engage in homosexuality they will probably go to hell, while lumping a number of other behaviour types into the same category, as has already been pointed out on here?

Unfortunately a number of commentators swooped on his comments when he made them and amplified their importance out of all proportion to their actual importance.

If we genuinely believe in diversity then we should realise that diversity means having gay people mixing freely with religious people so that the two groups can more readily understand each other.

Let's put it this way, if, say old hook-hand Abu Hamza wanted to invest £500k/year into Bradford as the club met his moral values, what would your opinion be? I know what my opinion would be and the second word would be "off". Folau is, unfortunately, a poster child for extremist views and that will rub off on his employer.

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1 minute ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Has Folau actually tried to harm any gay people, other than saying that if they engage in homosexuality they will probably go to hell, while lumping a number of other behaviour types into the same category, as has already been pointed out on here?

Homosexuality is not a behaviour, it is a characteristic. This is why it was (rightly) separated from the other parts of his post.

He hasn't harm anyone but his view on 'repent or face punishment' for a characteristic is at odds with a sport that has a stated policy of tolerance and inclusiveness for all people, including those of all sexuality.

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4 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Israel Folau happens to believe in something that the vast majority of us believe is nonsensical.

But then most major religions take aim at homosexuality to a greater or lesser degree.

One of my daughters is an evangelical Christian who, if I quizzed her on it, would probably have some opinions that I would profoundly disagree with, including who will and who won't squeeze through the pearly gates to enter heaven. I'm fairly sure she would probably believe that I wouldn't qualify.

But given that I don't believe in the concept, I don't see why it should upset me.

Has Folau actually tried to harm any gay people, other than saying that if they engage in homosexuality they will probably go to hell, while lumping a number of other behaviour types into the same category, as has already been pointed out on here?

Unfortunately a number of commentators swooped on his comments when he made them and amplified their importance out of all proportion to their actual importance.

If we genuinely believe in diversity then we should realise that diversity means having gay people mixing freely with religious people so that the two groups can more readily understand each other.

This will sound stupid but in his warped view he is trying to give them advice to get into heaven 

It's a silly mindset of course 

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1 minute ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Israel Folau happens to believe in something that the vast majority of us believe is nonsensical.

But then most major religions take aim at homosexuality to a greater or lesser degree.

One of my daughters is an evangelical Christian who, if I quizzed her on it, would probably have some opinions that I would profoundly disagree with, including who will and who won't squeeze through the pearly gates to enter heaven. I'm fairly sure she would probably believe that I wouldn't qualify.

But given that I don't believe in the concept, I don't see why it should upset me.

Has Folau actually tried to harm any gay people, other than saying that if they engage in homosexuality they will probably go to hell, while lumping a number of other behaviour types into the same category, as has already been pointed out on here?

Unfortunately a number of commentators swooped on his comments when he made them and amplified their importance out of all proportion to their actual importance.

If we genuinely believe in diversity then we should realise that diversity means having gay people mixing freely with religious people so that the two groups can more readily understand each other.

I am struggling to find the bits where Folau has been trying to understand people whose sexuality doesn't match his own.

 

 

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1 minute ago, ckn said:

Let's put it this way, if, say old hook-hand Abu Hamza wanted to invest £500k/year into Bradford as the club met his moral values, what would your opinion be? I know what my opinion would be and the second word would be "off". Folau is, unfortunately, a poster child for extremist views and that will rub off on his employer.

I believe Abu Hamza supported the beheading of non-Muslims.

He didn't just tweet passages from the Koran.

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3 minutes ago, dixiedean said:

Basically his view is everyone bar my extended family is controlled by Satan and is going to Hell.

 

I'm not sure where I stand in all this as an agnostic. I drink beer, too. Perhaps I'm heading for purgatory.

The key here though, I feel, is not to give a rat fart. Disagree with him all you like, but views are views, no matter how absurd (as in this case).

I've just had enough of people arguing about what opinion to hold over what consenting adults do with their todgers and ladybits. I. Don't. Care. Alas, Israel Folau does.

Still, I reckon the worst thing he'd do to someone gay is bore them rigid with biblical quotes.

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Stain on the sport this.

Even the Aussies, historically among the most racist/intolerant societies on Earth (I’d rank them up there with the US), booted out this bigot.

On the BBC:

News of the deal came shortly after an announcement by Wigan Warriors that their match against Catalans at the DW Stadium on 22 March will be "Pride Day".

Absolute farce.

I get the double standards/hypocrisy that some players have committed wrongs yet they have been allowed to play. Domestic abuse is rampant among Aussie RL players for example. They should be booted out too. If that empties the playing pool so be it. Clean up the sport. 

 

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2 minutes ago, absentee thoughtlord said:

I'm not sure where I stand in all this as an agnostic. I drink beer, too. Perhaps I'm heading for purgatory.

The key here though, I feel, is not to give a rat fart. Disagree with him all you like, but views are views, no matter how absurd (as in this case).

I've just had enough of people arguing about what opinion to hold over what consenting adults do with their todgers and ladybits. I. Don't. Care. Alas, Israel Folau does.

Still, I reckon the worst thing he'd do to someone gay is bore them rigid with biblical quotes.

I don't think he would be happy if they got rigid around him 

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1 minute ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Israel Folau happens to believe in something that the vast majority of us believe is nonsensical.

But then most major religions take aim at homosexuality to a greater or lesser degree.

One of my daughters is an evangelical Christian who, if I quizzed her on it, would probably have some opinions that I would profoundly disagree with, including who will and who won't squeeze through the pearly gates to enter heaven. I'm fairly sure she would probably believe that I wouldn't qualify.

But given that I don't believe in the concept, I don't see why it should upset me.

Has Folau actually tried to harm any gay people, other than saying that if they engage in homosexuality they will probably go to hell, while lumping a number of other behaviour types into the same category, as has already been pointed out on here?

Unfortunately a number of commentators swooped on his comments when he made them and amplified their importance out of all proportion to their actual importance.

If we genuinely believe in diversity then we should realise that diversity means having gay people mixing freely with religious people so that the two groups can more readily understand each other.

100% this! 👆🏼

SBW has rightly been regarded as a breath of fresh air for our game however i'd suggest if he allowed himself to be open about his thoughts on a lot of the same alleged 'sinners' that Folau mentioned, you'd see a lot of correlation. The difference? SBW knows not to mix personal beliefs with his profession....but then that's not strictly true either considering the betting logo move, but that's okay because saying gambling is bad offends nobody, right? 

 

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2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Homosexuality is not a behaviour, it is a characteristic. This is why it was (rightly) separated from the other parts of his post.

He hasn't harm anyone but his view on 'repent or face punishment' for a characteristic is at odds with a sport that has a stated policy of tolerance and inclusiveness for all people, including those of all sexuality.

I was raised as a Roman Catholic and was taught that God loved homosexuals but had a downer on homosexual acts. But then he also abhorred adultery among heterosexuals.

It just seem odd to me to talk of tolerance and inclusiveness while seeking to ban people for views that are not widely accepted in the modern world.

I suspect that many Rugby League and Union players from the South Pacific Islands would hold religious views that are not a million miles away from Folau's. So do we ban them as well?

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1 minute ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

100% this! 👆🏼

SBW has rightly been regarded as a breath of fresh air for our game however i'd suggest if he allowed himself to be open about his thoughts on a lot of the same alleged 'sinners' that Folau mentioned, you'd see a lot of correlation. The difference? SBW knows not to mix personal beliefs with his profession....but then that's not strictly true either considering the betting logo move, but that's okay because saying gambling is bad offends nobody, right? 

 

Sbw knew when to shut up and folau didn't that's the only difference 

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Catalans are gonna get a real backlash from this . Ultimately we’ll see if it’s worth it on the pitch , which is what it comes down to in brass tacks for them 

Edited by DavidM

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2 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I was raised as a Roman Catholic and was taught that God loved homosexuals but had a downer on homosexual acts. But then he also abhorred adultery among heterosexuals.

It just seem odd to me to talk of tolerance and inclusiveness while seeking to ban people for views that are not widely accepted in the modern world.

I suspect that many Rugby League and Union players from the South Pacific Islands would hold religious views that are not a million miles away from Folau's. So do we ban them as well?

Sorry, but you are not allowed to decide what people believe based upon your "suspicions".

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2 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

Sorry, but you are not allowed to decide what people believe based upon your "suspicions".

They're not suspicions - Billy Vunipola openly supported Folau and his beliefs until somebody at the RFU had a quiet word. He wasn't the only one. 

Edited by hunsletgreenandgold

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1 minute ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I was raised as a Roman Catholic and was taught that God loved homosexuals but had a downer on homosexual acts. But then he also abhorred adultery among heterosexuals.

It just seem odd to me to talk of tolerance and inclusiveness while seeking to ban people for views that are not widely accepted in the modern world.

I suspect that many Rugby League and Union players from the South Pacific Islands would hold religious views that are not a million miles away from Folau's. So do we ban them as well?

Nobody has even come close to suggesting that people be banned for their religious views.

It is entirely about how they are expressed. Falou was warned about how he expressed his views and how they were at odds with the stated inclusiveness of the ARU. He continued to express his views and his contract was terminated. 

He has clearly been told by Catalan that he should not express these views as the statement announcing his signing said he would keep his views to himself.

The bottom line is that being tolerant of people's beliefs and views is not a licence for them to be intolerant. 

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