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1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

Hope there won’t be a leader in next week’s League Express attempting to condone Israel Folau’s actions....

You mean spouting fire and brimstone!

You'll have to wait to find out.

In the meantime, there's some great reading in this week's issue.

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This is a real can of worms - freedom of speech V causing offence - no easy answer.

However when SBW asked for betting logos to be removed he was applauded- and thats just his personal view based on his religion - IF is just the same, his personal point of view but he caused more offence.

Not sure what the answer is but as someone said on here Cats have a very good team so was this really worth the trouble? I predict he plays more home than away games, plays well and moves to a French RU club on 4x the money mid season.

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6 minutes ago, Jim Prendle said:

Yes, I know that many Islanders have strong religious beliefs, I just don't know how we get from that that point to the point of them holding the same sort of beliefs that Folau is spouting.

I actually said "not a million miles away" from Folau's beliefs, which doesn't mean that I think they are exactly the same. But my experience of the Islanders is that they have a strong belief in what they see as biblical truths.

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4 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I do speak to gay people quite regularly and you are right to suggest that their views don't 'totally' align with mine. Like any group of people, there are some widely varying views.

But that's what we would surely expect.

Indeed. Will be interested to hear, then, if any of them feel Folau's comments should be dismissed, related to the amount of homophobia they may or may not encounter. 

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Play off mini league winner - 2002. Bronze Medalist - 2003. Big Split Group Winner - 2006. Minor Stupidship - 2005, 2006. Cup Silver Medalist - 2008, 2009

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1 hour ago, Ackroman said:

Could be the key to a TV deal

We weren't going to give you £40m/year, but now you've signed a homophobe with minimal name recognition here you go?

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I have enjoyed reading these 16 pages,thus far.

Not much inclusivity from the RFL family,and I disagree the statements from Super League/RFL/Dave Woods,when they failed to make statements about other controversial figures when they were signed.

People in religious circles use the words - Love the sinner,hate the sin - etc.

I won't be giving up watching my chosen side if someone points out any murderers,rapists,paedophiles etc also in the crowd supporting the same side.Nor am I too bothered what players get up to away from putting in professional playing performances.

I have changed as I have aged.People can do - without being persuaded by their peers.

It was a brave decision,back in the day,to change from playing on a Saturday,to a then religious day,Sunday.

This devout Christian has also changed his mind - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570747/Ive-lost-faith-Im-happy-Jonathan-Edwards-reveals-no-longer-believes-God.html

The Wigan club,who have seemingly,coincidentally,made their fixture against Catalans Dragons a Pride Day,have also,in the past,supported wrongdoers after their actions;which were worse than words on social media. 


     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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I would imagine that other clubs will not need to follow Wigans example of a Gay Pride day. I am fairly certain the Gay Pride banners and supporters will be out at the majority of Catalan games played in the U.K. For all of you wanting more publicity for the game I believe this season your wishes will be granted. Not for the betterment of the game either, just watch the National T.V. channels jump onto this story.Unfortunately I see Rugby League taking a real hammering from the media this season over this signing.I fear Catalan have made a rod for their own back here, Folau may be a talented Rugby player but he strikes me as a person with no common sense and a loud mouth to go with it.

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14 minutes ago, Amber Avenger said:

Indeed. Will be interested to hear, then, if any of them feel Folau's comments should be dismissed, related to the amount of homophobia they may or may not encounter. 

I've just spoken to a friend of mine who is a gay man and a former professional Rugby League player.

He can't wait to see Folau back playing Rugby League and he thinks it's a great signing.

Again, that is just one man's opinion.

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The Dragons are my local team nowadays but I'm going to struggle with my conscience when it comes to attending matches in Perpignan. Y'see, I'm the father of three strapping lads, one of which is gay. He is the one who served on the frontline in Afghanistan as a Royal Engineer attached to the infantry......... probably whilst Falau was spouting his hateful rhetoric in his local church somewhere and enjoying the pampered lifestyle of a professional, high profile sportsman. 

Ahhhh the irony that religion brings.

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24 minutes ago, Chamey said:

We weren't going to give you £40m/year, but now you've signed a homophobe with minimal name recognition here you go?

Quite a statement that considering only one of your points is a fact.

The thing is people think they can say what the want and also there are those who like to get outraged about it. I was brought up to ignore both.

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Who would have thought that following the moral teachings of a bronze age society would cause such problems in the year 2020. It's almost as if the two things are incompatible. 

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13 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I've just spoken to a friend of mine who is a gay man and a former professional Rugby League player.

He can't wait to see Folau back playing Rugby League and he thinks it's a great signing.

Again, that is just one man's opinion.

Surely he must be outraged?

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1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

I hope every other club goes out of their way to publicly shame Folau this year by organizing pre-match events before their home games with Catalans with an LGBT theme.

Hold some form of Pride event inside & outside the stadium. Instead of having kids as the mascots invite members of the LGBT community to take their place and stand side by side with the players wearing a full rainbow kit. Watch the homophobic little ###### Folau squirm at having to stand in the middle of the pitch pre-kick off with all this going on around him.

Time for RL to stand up to intolerant people like him and show them that as a sport we embrace people from diverse backgrounds. 

So just an out and out attempt at provocation essentially? Interesting, homophobia isn’t a new thing and not even new to our game - where were you all then asking for every club to come out in force? And worst of all many seem to want to do it to provoke a reaction from Folau rather than actually support LGBTQ+ community. Bandwagon springs to mind. 

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7 minutes ago, Ackroman said:

Surely he must be outraged?

Not by Folau's signing.

Not a bit, in fact. He thinks he'll be a great signing for the Catalans.

But nowadays we all tend to get outraged on other people's behalf.

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23 minutes ago, CiderWire said:

The Dragons are my local team nowadays but I'm going to struggle with my conscience when it comes to attending matches in Perpignan. Y'see, I'm the father of three strapping lads, one of which is gay. He is the one who served on the frontline in Afghanistan as a Royal Engineer attached to the infantry......... probably whilst Falau was spouting his hateful rhetoric in his local church somewhere and enjoying the pampered lifestyle of a professional, high profile sportsman. 

Ahhhh the irony that religion brings.

Will the fact that Folau is playing for the Catalans have any effect on the degree of pride you take in your son?

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3 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Will the fact that Folau is playing for the Catalans have any effect on the degree of pride you take in your son?

What a strange rhetorical question

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2 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Will the fact that Folau is playing for the Catalans have any effect on the degree of pride you take in your son?

Oh please stop it now. You irritatingly flooded the thread with your generalisations and now you're getting personal. 

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14 hours ago, frank said:

Lots of do gooders on this board.

What’s wrong with wanting to do good?

You, I presume want to do the opposite? 

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"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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I’ve just listened to Ian Leneghan on 5live and he spoke very well about the situation. He insists that Wigan announcing their game against Cats as pride day was done in conjunction with officials from the dragons and they want to play an active role in the day, including the players. He didn’t shy away from saying that even his own players had issues in the past of the same nature (Hardaker) and believed Folau should be allowed to play in SL. He was asked if he would have had Folau at Wigan and his response was ‘our cap is full now so it was never an option but yes we made some initial enquiries when we first heard of his availability’. 

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1 minute ago, FearTheVee said:

What a strange rhetorical question

Rhetorical certainly, but strange, not really.

Ciderwire clearly takes pride in his son, but he linked his family pride with his ambivalence over whether or not to support the Catalans this season.

I would have thought they were quite separate things.

But maybe not!

 

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26 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

This is a real can of worms - freedom of speech V causing offence - no easy answer.

However when SBW asked for betting logos to be removed he was applauded- and thats just his personal view based on his religion - IF is just the same, his personal point of view but he caused more offence.

Not sure what the answer is but as someone said on here Cats have a very good team so was this really worth the trouble? I predict he plays more home than away games, plays well and moves to a French RU club on 4x the money mid season.

I don't agree.  In the UK (and assuming the law's the same in Australia, although there's an interesting argument about internet publications and whether it's cross-jurisdictional) you cannot discriminate against someone on the grounds of their sexual orientation.  He has done that, he's in the wrong, freedom of speech is no defence.  Those who argue that their religious belief is protected, and that they are being discriminated against by not being able to hold that view, are in my view wrong.  The law has grappled with this as times have changed and whilst there's an argument for a defence based on a held religious view, I think it would fail in 99% of cases.

SBW, on the other hand, refused to endorse gambling based on his beliefs.  (Again assuming the laws of Canada are the same as the UK) I doubt this discriminate against any protected groups (betting companies?) and so there's no debate here.  He might be at risk for breach of contract i.e. if he were required to endorse the sponsor, but presumably he wouldn't have signed up to a contract in those terms for the same reason, so he'd be fine.

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would be interesting for folau to do a study of how many gay people turned to religion in the last 100 years to become vicars, priests, monks, nuns etc etc because they couldn't cope with their true identities as gay people in their oppressive environments of the time or location.

Edited by graveyard johnny

the grass may be greener on the other side of the fence but the crows are just as black

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