'Two Years that will shape rugby league'.

[fighting irish]

32 minutes ago, tuutaisrambo said:

I'm happy enough with a ring fenced league with the big 6 or so SL clubs along with London and 2 from France and North America and so on if the investment is big enough and all clubs can compete on an equal financial footing.....BIG IF

My argument for P&R has always been the gap between bottom of SL and top of CHAMPIONSHIP is too small to cut teams out.

Jumping to a league of big clubs with for example a £5m salary cap would kill that argument dead.

Can't see a SL2 working under a smaller cap or whatever........the bigger clubs would get smaller (Castleford, Wakefield, Huddersfield etc) and clubs like Fev and Leigh would probably start to catch them up a little and eventually everyone outside the new BIG League would be part time...... I don't really mind this as part time rugby is pretty good to watch.

The big Question is whether the Chosen Big Clubs actually grow the sport from where it is now?   and How the SL clubs that miss out react.

I really don't see how any of it would work without more internationals........that's the only way to grow interest in our game IMO.

Maybe a new richer big league will bring on Canada, USA and France faster.......that's what the game need more than anything.

This sounds like an open invitation to Parky to have a 3 page rant. Stand by.

[Moove]

Interesting article, although I suspect most of the structure and TV aspects have been done to death on here already.

Whatever solutions we end up with, I do think it's important that we consider the impact it will have on less established, but growing, areas of RL. When you see some of the good stuff which has been building in the North East plus York et al, even though they're  not ready for the 'big time' now there's every chance they could end up being established heartlands of the future with the right level of support and opportunity. Organic expansion if you like.

The other thing I'm really worried about is the World Cup. Not so much the tournament itself (everything so far has been fantastic), but rather the ability of the sport to build a legacy on the back of it. International sport with FTA coverage is such a massive thing for access to 'prime time' and wider public awareness, but the similar opportunity we had with the 2013 WC was utterly wasted by the powers that be and many of the people responsible for that are still here.

The headline is quite right though, the next two years are massive for the future of RL, one way or another.

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

...the crossroads is indeed here, in the NOW, even though some refuse to admit it.  This is our time as a sport...sometimes your number just comes up.

And he became the best blues guitarist ever!

[iangidds]

6 hours ago, fighting irish said:

??? Please elaborate? 

A effing disaster , basically 2 years to save the game after he ran the game into the ground

[Ooh Ah Timmy Street]

I agree with the article in that the top tier should be ring fenced for the big clubs, though this uncertainty around 2021 Makes it difficult to get motivated for the coming championship season. My team Leigh has a good chance of being promoted , though what’s the point in cheering for it to happen If in two years we are no longer considered a big enough club to be part of the top league. The game needs to sort out where it’s going , as it feels like we are treading water at the minute . 

[Eddie]

11 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/51290285

Private equity and restructure is going to come, I feel.

Woods suggests seven heartland clubs but I would start with only five: St Helens, Leeds, Wigan, Warrington and Hull FC.

Add Toronto, New York, London, Catalans and Toulouse and you could have a first-rate Super League with international appeal (and with room to expand).

Other clubs like Hull KR, Cas, Wakey, Huddersfield, Salford, Bradford etc would play in a highly competitive ‘Super League 2’, which would be part of the TV deal. This would be my strategy, anyway.

You’d get rid of established well supported clubs like HKR and Cas, to replace them with one that doesn’t even exist yet and two who can barely muster 2,000 fans to a game?

[Eddie]

Getting rid of P&R and sticking to a 12 team SL with half of them being from abroad would kill professional, and possibly even semi-professional rugby league in this country, other than for those six clubs. The player pool would reduce accordingly and the game in England would wither. I don’t know why any Rugby League fan would want that. 

[Man of Kent]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

You’d get rid of established well supported clubs like HKR and Cas, to replace them with one that doesn’t even exist yet and two who can barely muster 2,000 fans to a game?

Yes. Cas is a great club but they are located in a small town with a ###### ground and have limited growth potential. Not Super.

KR are borderline but they aren’t a powerhouse now and are unlikely to be in future. Sorry. 

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Yes. Cas is a great club but they are located in a small town with a ###### ground and have limited growth potential. Not Super.

KR are borderline but they aren’t a powerhouse now and are unlikely to be in future. Sorry. 

Ah well, who cares about their sizeable and loyal fan bases then. 

[Man of Kent]

Just now, Eddie said:

Ah well, who cares about their sizeable and loyal fan bases then. 

KR got good crowds in the Championship didn’t they? They don’t just stop going. 

[Eddie]

10 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

KR got good crowds in the Championship didn’t they? They don’t just stop going. 

That was because they knew they could go back up. What would there be to play for if they could never get promoted again, and were permanently reduced to the status of second rate also rans?  In case you were unaware Hull v KR next week has sold out, how often does SL get a crowd like that? 

Also why did you pick London?  Despite being in a massive city and having been around for decades they have hardly any fans and play in a dump of a ground - not Super at all. 

[Kayakman]

40 minutes ago, Eddie said:

You’d get rid of established well supported clubs like HKR and Cas, to replace them with one that doesn’t even exist yet and two who can barely muster 2,000 fans to a game?

EXPAND SL!

No need for anyone to go down this year and then add a few more clubs to make 2 divisions....keep PR...1 up 1 down.

THINK BIG!

[Man of Kent]

Just now, Eddie said:

Nice though it is, I’m not sure a derby justifies inclusion but I admit KR have a stronger case than most.

Anyway, I didn’t say it was a completely closed shop. I’d start off with 10 as a very high quality Super League with an eye on the international market then expand. ‘Super League 2’ would be an important part of this.

As for London, they play in a world city of around 10 million people. They’ve had decent crowds in the past and they wouldn’t be playing at Ealing as private equity money would be targeted on securing better facilities (and staff!).

The crux of this is about global growth potential of TV rights to catch up with the NRL and other sports. The NSW comp expanded to Brisbane, Melbourne, Canberra and Auckland etc to be a more (inter)national sport. Their TV rights are now worth A$2bn.

They’ve drawn the blueprint for us to follow: a high-quality comp with a wider footprint in bigger markets. We have to start smaller as our comp is too mediocre at the bottom end.

It may be need more than five heartland clubs to get it voted through so perhaps KR would take their place but to be brutally honest, other than the derby, they don’t add much to the comp right now.

[THE RED ROOSTER]

Rugby League's eternal problem - everyone loves the idea - Provided their club is in the ring-fenced league.

This is a kite-flying exercise, what sometimes happens is that when an idea develops it is leaked out in broad terms to journalists who then publish the outline and in doing so test public reaction to the plan.

Sadly I am coming to the view that something drastic is going to have to happen and having a private venture company involved provides sufficient cover for the powers that be in rugby league to engage in the social darwinism amongst the lower clubs that they feel is required.

There would not be more than two maximum foreign clubs in the top flight, though by creating Super League 1 and Super League 2 with P&R between the two you create enough space with a 20 club league, including Toulouse in the 2nd tier, that when push comes to shove the votes will be there to achieve change.

Put it this way, outside the top flight only Bradford, Newcastle and London are running reserve teams with other clubs reliant on dual registration players to ensure they are competitive. This is not going to last and although as with Super League, there is a split between top 6 and bottom 6 in the Championship in respect of can you afford to be full time professional or not and the crunch is now coming fior many clubs in and out of Super League reliant on TV funding.

Wherther this will be good or bad for the game in the long run depends on where your club ends up. One thing though is for sure if such action is taken Rugby League as a sport will survive as I cannot see a young player brought up at Wigan St Pats refusing to join a Super League club in a fit of pique because certain clubs have been excluded from the new set up as is expounded on message boards.

I can also predict some busy nights for the webmaster once the plans break for real...

[Big Picture]

4 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

The crux of this is about global growth potential of TV rights to catch up with the NRL and other sports. The NSW comp expanded to Brisbane, Melbourne, Canberra and Auckland etc to be a more (inter)national sport. Their TV rights are now worth A$2bn.

They’ve drawn the blueprint for us to follow: a high-quality comp with a wider footprint in bigger markets. We have to start smaller as our comp is too mediocre at the bottom end.

Yes the crux of this is about global growth potential of TV rights to catch up with other leagues, but following the blueprint you describe is going to prove beyond the RFL/SL.

The existing comp isn't just too mediocre at the bottom end, it's too mediocre across the board.  With a few exceptions (e.g. London and Sheffield) which have a record of failing to penetrate the consciousness of the public in their markets the teams are in the wrong sort of places to have any hope of achieving it.  Then there's the governing body's track record of never being able to take advantage of opportunities when they come along.

For northern hemisphere RL to have a high profile glamorous competition capable of generating the kind of TV rights income which the NRL and other big time major pro leagues have, it would have to be created outside the existing structure of the game so it's not held back by the shortcomings of that structure.

[gingerjon]

Any plan, no matter how wonderful, that doesn't include *from the start and as a fundamental element* "increasing the pool of players available to all clubs from professional to community" is going to struggle to be credible.

We just don't have enough bodies to go round.

[DoubleD]

21 hours ago, Oxford said:

Good article sums up the possibilities well enough, a bit overly dramatic at times.

 

Yes I thought that, Woods does tend to be overly dramatic at times, perhaps to get eyeballs viewing 

[Gooleboy]

9 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

KR got good crowds in the Championship didn’t they? They don’t just stop going. 

They did, but that was probably because they could get promoted again.

[whatmichaelsays]

19 hours ago, Chris Taylor said:

Why do we always say Super League 2? Isn't that the championship.

This. 

"Super League 2" cheapens both brands. It's either the "Super" League, or it isn't. 

[Baldyfield]

I've never understood the concept of ring fencing the top league. It just seems to take the competitive nature out of the sport. Sport is about the highs and lows which all clubs will go through. I understand the finances but I feel it really does take a lot away from the game with little gain to remove the possibility of the low of relegation or the high of promotion.

[Bob8]

17 hours ago, EastLondonMike said:

Sadly i don't think we have the right amount of capable people involved in senior positions to take the game forward, fully grasp the potential and prosper. Not in the next two years anyway. Hope i'm wrong. 

 

16 hours ago, RobertAM said:

Can RL find a Bernie Ecclestone with the vision but without the greed? Too much money went into F1 but it did elevate the sport into a global powerhouse..on a downward spiral now with too many races in less then savoury locations but that is the conundrum.

I do not think these people are daft, it is more the conflict of interests. People are fans of clubs a Bernie Ecclestone is to sacrifice that interest completely to the greater good and selling out.

[tuutaisrambo]

1 hour ago, Baldyfield said:

I've never understood the concept of ring fencing the top league. It just seems to take the competitive nature out of the sport. Sport is about the highs and lows which all clubs will go through. I understand the finances but I feel it really does take a lot away from the game with little gain to remove the possibility of the low of relegation or the high of promotion.

P&R is fine now.......In a new competition with say 12 franchises all spending a hugely increased cap then I think it can go....... no one outside could afford it and those chosen to be inside should be there for good strategic reasons.

The playing field in theory should be relatively even then and teams should be in with a shout until very near the end of the season like in the NRL........if teams are evenly matched there's no reason why someone could be champions from 8th depending on the play off system.

We'd also get a very competition second tier of part time rugby clubs feeding into it.

IF WE HAVE DRASTIC CHANGE WITH GENUINELY BIG RICH CLUBS SPENDING A LOT MORE THEN P&R HAS TO GO.

That doesn't mean upping the cap by 300k and swapping Wakefield for London/Toulouse/Leigh and pulling up the drawbridge.

[EastLondonMike]

Ideal situation for me would be a SL without P+R but with teams able to apply to join SL at anytime, providing they meet certain criteria. Clubs that want to succeed and prosper will always be able to become a part of SL.

[Man of Kent]

14 minutes ago, EastLondonMike said:

Ideal situation for me would be a SL without P+R but with teams able to apply to join SL at anytime, providing they meet certain criteria. Clubs that want to succeed and prosper will always be able to become a part of SL.

Mine too. Similar to the election/re-election the Football League used to do. Also a way to flush out any failing clubs.

[Marty Funkhouser]

14 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

 

I can also predict some busy nights for the webmaster once the plans break for real...

Reality is in very short supply around these parts, both on this thread and the forum in general.