Israel Folau (Merged threads)

[Dunbar]

43 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

It’s what (most of the time) separates this forum from all the others and certainly leagues ahead of any kind of discussion/debate on social media platforms - which normally follows the script: 

‘I have an opinion’

”I have one too but it’s different to yours, you d*ck” 

‘<insert expletive riddled threat>’ 

Indeed.  And credit goes to both those in charge for setting and enforcing clear guidelines and those participating for having the common sense and discipline to adhere to those guidelines.

Now, if only we could do the same for play the balls!

[Dave T]

19 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Indeed.  And credit goes to both those in charge for setting and enforcing clear guidelines and those participating for having the common sense and discipline to adhere to those guidelines.

Now, if only we could do the same for play the balls!

Well, have you signed the petition? That should sort those play of the balls! 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

9 hours ago, Honor James said:

Perhaps, as i did, he would expect a lot of people to disagree and would have said so.

So you can see no issue with the sport wanting to grow as a business when employing people of that ilk, and see no reason for them to attempt to do anything about it? Just let people say and do as they please with no repercussion?

[RP London]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

I agree, and that provocative way it is positioned takes it into hate speech imho.

Especially considering many translations don't even mention homosexuals.

Yes, and this is why “word of god” is a daft defence imho. The word of god was written in a language a long time ago, it has been translated many many times and in many cases miss translated due to the fact that the interpretation of the words has been got wrong right from the start. 

[GUBRATS]

8 minutes ago, RP London said:

Yes, and this is why “word of god” is a daft defence imho. The word of god was written in a language a long time ago, it has been translated many many times and in many cases miss translated due to the fact that the interpretation of the words has been got wrong right from the start. 

But it wasn't the " word of God " anymore than Maradonna's hand was the " hand of God " or Tommy Martyns " foot of God " , because God didn't, doesn't and never will exist 

[RMBJ]

I wonder if those advocating various reasons why it is acceptable to allow Folau to play for Catalans would make similar pleas if the player was Joe Average instead? Being a very good rugby player should provide no loophole to say anything without the same consequences a mere average player would receive. The sport is surely far more important than the rights of a religious bigot to offend a sizeable minority of the population.

[Eddie]

10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But it wasn't the " word of God " anymore than Maradonna's hand was the " hand of God " or Tommy Martyns " foot of God " , because God didn't, doesn't and never will exist 

You have no idea if god exists or not. 

[RP London]

13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But it wasn't the " word of God " anymore than Maradonna's hand was the " hand of God " or Tommy Martyns " foot of God " , because God didn't, doesn't and never will exist 

Without getting into the “does god exist” argument it wasn’t “the word of god” as it was written by man many years after the event. Then it was translated, then translated from translations. Any innacuracy being compounded by more. So even if your belief is that he exists you are right that it is no more his words than the other examples you have used. 

(Btw faith is not a bad thing and should not be scoffed at neither should the opinion that there is no god. What’s dangerous is what you do with that faith or lack of faith, both of which can be evil) 

[Wolford6]

In a parallel situation, suppose Israel Folau had claimed England RU eligibility, like for instance Denny Solomona and Mauri Farsavallu, then posted his anti-gay tweets. If he then got sacked, would Hudgell's firm have taken on the Unfair Dismissal case?. 

[RMBJ]

18 minutes ago, Wolford6 said:

In a parallel situation, suppose Israel Folau had claimed England RU eligibility, like for instance Denny Solomona and Mauri Farsavallu, then posted his anti-gay tweets. If he then got sacked, would Hudgell's firm have taken on the Unfair Dismissal case?. 

Seriously, why is there so much whataboutery? There's just no need for what if questions to hypothetical scenarios with tenuous links to the topic in hand. 

Would Folau go back in a time-machine to unsay what he said with the full knowledge of the implications if he said it again? Is time-travel unethical? Let's have a debate. No.

[Bert1]

Beating a dead horse now. He’s didn’t do anything illegal Catalan made the choice and he’s in super league now so get over it. People giving their opinion on what is and isn’t hate speech is irrelevant. 

[RMBJ]

1 minute ago, Bert1 said:

Beating a dead horse now. He’s didn’t do anything illegal Catalan made the choice and he’s in super league now so get over it. People giving their opinion on what is and isn’t hate speech is irrelevant. 

You're welcome to your opinion.

[Bert1]

12 minutes ago, RMBJ said:

You're welcome to your opinion.

Stick with the facts.

In super league fact

Not hate speech fact 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

A few thoughts, fwiw...

- Folau is an idiot with medieval religious views. But let's recognise they're English missionaries' views foisted on manipulated people before we start looking down our nose at the Polynesians. Britain's own culture of diversity is pretty recent, and even then not secure everywhere by a very long shot.  

- I don't think unpleasant thoughts or words are worth a lifetime ban. Unless we are going to ban serial wife beaters - and I haven't seen that yet (and there might be one at my own club).  

- If he expressed remorse he would be hypocritical, his religion is deeply held and we wouldn't believe him. But if he's at least learned that words have impact on others and should be moderated, so doesn't repeat them, then that's a long way from his position 12 months ago vs. Rugby Australia and might be worth rolling with 

- Publicity-wise, get real this has actually been a positive. I don't believe all publicity is good publicity, but the basic story is "one isolated club ditched their morals for on-field advantage, but the other clubs are visibly disgusted" plus throughout the season "fans demonstrate how inclusive the rugby league community is by protesting against Folau"... let's be honest, unseemly as it all is, it shows us overall in a good light and has got us shedloads of coverage in the first fortnight when we're up against the 6 Nations

 

 

 

[ckn]

3 hours ago, RP London said:

Without getting into the “does god exist” argument it wasn’t “the word of god” as it was written by man many years after the event. Then it was translated, then translated from translations. Any innacuracy being compounded by more. So even if your belief is that he exists you are right that it is no more his words than the other examples you have used. 

(Btw faith is not a bad thing and should not be scoffed at neither should the opinion that there is no god. What’s dangerous is what you do with that faith or lack of faith, both of which can be evil) 

The really ranty book in the bible, can never remember which one but the one that threatens death to everyone and their cat if they dare do anything, always makes me wonder if someone just stuck it in there as a joke and no-one noticed. “And, and them! That lot! They once cut me up in a chariot on the way to the temple and didn’t even raise a hand to apologise! Death to them!”

One thing that is the “word of god” according to the bible is that Jesus never anywhere specifically says that homosexuality is bad. Neither is it on the top 10 of God in the 10 commandments, in fact going by how the bits specifically referring to either God’s commands or Jesus’s teachings talk about things, homosexuality would probably come somewhere after “thou shalt not put the milk in the cup first”.

That’s what gets me about Folau. He’s putting his own prejudicial spin on his own religion out of his own narrow views.

[RP London]

22 minutes ago, ckn said:

The really ranty book in the bible, can never remember which one but the one that threatens death to everyone and their cat if they dare do anything, always makes me wonder if someone just stuck it in there as a joke and no-one noticed. “And, and them! That lot! They once cut me up in a chariot on the way to the temple and didn’t even raise a hand to apologise! Death to them!”

One thing that is the “word of god” according to the bible is that Jesus never anywhere specifically says that homosexuality is bad. Neither is it on the top 10 of God in the 10 commandments, in fact going by how the bits specifically referring to either God’s commands or Jesus’s teachings talk about things, homosexuality would probably come somewhere after “thou shalt not put the milk in the cup first”.

That’s what gets me about Folau. He’s putting his own prejudicial spin on his own religion out of his own narrow views.

Leviticus is a ##### of a book iirc.. ”though shalt not” seems to preface every other verse, the “other” verse is prefaced by “unless” it’s like a students dare book... you can’t **** off a goat unless you wear 2 different gloves one made out synthetic fibres the other made from a calf’s  liver.....

its a funny old book the bible, historically amazingly accurate in terms of timing and what actually happens, utterly bat sh*t crazy for the random bits in-between and interpretation of why those things occurred!  

[ckn]

In a sign that internet cross-tracking is getting out of hand, this tweet was literally just shown as suggested in my twitter feed. 

 

[Loiner]

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

I wish somebody would have mentioned Cockayne and Hardaker earlier in the thread.

Ok fair play if this has been mentioned before I get your sarcasm, I don't read all the comments.

[RMBJ]

I like to listen to Derek & Clive discussing the bible every now and then just to reaffirm how ridiculous it is. 

Short exert  link below (DO NOT WATCH IF YOUR NAME IS ISRAEL FOLAU!)
 

 

[kiwis 13 6]

I think instead clubs planning pride days and making players wear rainbow shoe laces why not just have a diversity day or an inclusion day where everyone differences and our ability to get along and or agree to disagree are respected despite differences in age, gender, race, sexual orientation and religion?

[RayCee]

12 minutes ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

I think instead clubs planning pride days and making players wear rainbow shoe laces why not just have a diversity day or an inclusion day where everyone differences and our ability to get along and or agree to disagree are respected despite differences in age, gender, race, sexual orientation and religion?

That makes sense and would send out a message of what tolerance is.

[kiwis 13 6]

1 minute ago, RayCee said:

That makes sense and would send out a message of what tolerance is.

Society needs more tolerance and inclusion especial to a divisive issue where it can become people shouting there views at each other and no one listening what anyone else has to say

[Lowdesert]

4 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

Society needs more tolerance and inclusion especial to a divisive issue where it can become people shouting there views at each other and no one listening what anyone else has to say

I see that every single day here.  Maybe 10 times.  It’s gets everyone nowhere and highlights ignorance.

[DC77]

7 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

A few thoughts, fwiw...

- Folau is an idiot with medieval religious views. But let's recognise they're English missionaries' views foisted on manipulated people before we start looking down our nose at the Polynesians. Britain's own culture of diversity is pretty recent, and even then not secure everywhere by a very long shot.  

- I don't think unpleasant thoughts or words are worth a lifetime ban. Unless we are going to ban serial wife beaters - and I haven't seen that yet (and there might be one at my own club).  

- If he expressed remorse he would be hypocritical, his religion is deeply held and we wouldn't believe him. But if he's at least learned that words have impact on others and should be moderated, so doesn't repeat them, then that's a long way from his position 12 months ago vs. Rugby Australia and might be worth rolling with 

- Publicity-wise, get real this has actually been a positive. I don't believe all publicity is good publicity, but the basic story is "one isolated club ditched their morals for on-field advantage, but the other clubs are visibly disgusted" plus throughout the season "fans demonstrate how inclusive the rugby league community is by protesting against Folau"... let's be honest, unseemly as it all is, it shows us overall in a good light and has got us shedloads of coverage in the first fortnight when we're up against the 6 Nations

 

 

 

You’re deluded with your last sentence of you actually believe that. 

Rugby league has come across as a backward sport with no regard for minorities. RL welcomes medieval bigot who was banned elsewhere, that’s the story. 

Now this isn’t true (welcoming a bigot) as it was the act of one club, and SL felt its hands were tied, so in effect one no-mark owner of a club from the south of France has dragged the sport in England through the dirt.

You second para, yeah, obviously, ban every degenerate. Unless you have no qualms cheering on a mindless thug who bashes women away from the field? The Aussie product is a dreadful watch with its ultra structured, no risk, attritional five drives (I didn’t give it long, I’d seen enough), but even more so knowing the game there is rampant with domestic abusers. They talk about doing something about it, not aware anything has been done.

It’s not been a good week for Robert Elstone, but he has shown he is a man of integrity by stating SL got it wrong. Many others would have tried to sweep it under the carpet and let it die down, but he has confronted it head on. What SL could have done I haven’t yet heard. 

[gingerjon]

5 hours ago, kiwis 13 6 said:

I think instead clubs planning pride days and making players wear rainbow shoe laces why not just have a diversity day or an inclusion day where everyone differences and our ability to get along and or agree to disagree are respected despite differences in age, gender, race, sexual orientation and religion?

Do both.