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Israel Folau (Merged threads)

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56 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Quote.

"So I’m reluctant now to join the clamour to ban Folau for his beliefs"

I find this a strange line to include as I have not read a single opinion piece or message board post or heard a single interview where anyone has even come close to suggesting that Folau be banned for his beliefs. 

You obviously didn’t read the original thread on this forum then. 

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1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

Quote.

"So I’m reluctant now to join the clamour to ban Folau for his beliefs"

I find this a strange line to include as I have not read a single opinion piece or message board post or heard a single interview where anyone has even come close to suggesting that Folau be banned for his beliefs. 

I think that is somewhat splitting hairs Dunbar, his comments were all to do with his beliefs, I saw bible scriptures he qouted to substantiate his comments of the original quote he made that got him into this bother, I agree with Martyn and as I stated in the other thread earlier today, it was sensationalised journalism created to sell media.

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If a sponsor announced that they were not going to invest on account of one man at one club (who has not committed a hate crime, less still a violent one) then it would be one of the most cynical pieces of corporate virtue signalling ever recorded.

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14 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I think that is somewhat splitting hairs Dunbar, his comments were all to do with his beliefs, I saw bible scriptures he qouted to substantiate his comments of the original quote he made that got him into this bother, I agree with Martyn and as I stated in the other thread earlier today, it was sensationalised journalism created to sell media.

It's not splitting hairs at all Harry.  Lot's of Rugby players (Union and League) are devout Christians and, as Folau does, many of them will clearly believe in the literal word of the bible and its views on homosexuality.

Therefore the obvious conclusion is that it is not what Folau believes that is the issue but how he expressed it... otherwise why is there a fuss about Folau and not any of the other Christian players.

Yes, the comments were expressing his beliefs and it was the expression that was the problem, not the beliefs themselves.

 

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Tried to keep out of this topic, but I work with fans from Warrington, wigan, saints, leigh, widnes and Bradford and I've not spoke to one who actually cares about what Folau has tweeted or that he has signed for cats. Not a single fan and i speak to hundreds. They just don't care, if aclubs thinks they need to put a match as a pride festival, the question is why wait for Folau to arrive. And I won't boo him at Warrington ( I don't boo any player). 

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I don’t defend Folau, he rightly lost his job and his Rugby Union career. However I think it’s a slippery slope if we start blocking signings of certain players who have done wrong in the past.

Has a player ever been banned indefinitely from Super League before? Should Zak Hardaker be banned from playing if Folau is? Players have served time in prison for serious physical assaults and returned to Super League, is offensive tweeting worse than that?

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43 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Those defending Folau, not his right to make the comments, or his right to play RL, but that his comments werent that bad or were acceptable seem to share a similar political bent. That political bent would not be supportive of someone coming out strongly in favour of the two examples i gave.

It seems that you like to typecast everything Scotchy, like in RL terms only certain clubs are worth watching, some don't deserve any money, P&R is only for those not rich enough to stay in the SL, etc, etc. and now you can spot someones political preference just by the way they pronounce Referendum, do your talents have no boundaries?

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6 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Tried to keep out of this topic, but I work with fans from Warrington, wigan, saints, leigh, widnes and Bradford and I've not spoke to one who actually cares about what Folau has tweeted or that he has signed for cats. Not a single fan and i speak to hundreds. They just don't care, if aclubs thinks they need to put a match as a pride festival, the question is why wait for Folau to arrive. And I won't boo him at Warrington ( I don't boo any player). 

My thoughts precisely Elbow, there are many others who commited far worse and what they have done has been swept under the carpet.

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This is quite tricky.

From a personal point of view, Israel Folua's views are very different to my own.

That said, I am aware that players have returned or continued to play RL following prison sentences or convictions for drink driving. In effect, these players have been given a second chance and/or an opportunity to rehabilitate.

In this case, the context is comment which is generally unacceptable to the general population in Western countries. Where we are concerned with firmly-held views, then the idea of rehabilitation is more troublesome. Is 'redemption' at all possible? Additionally, how do we gauge the respective undesirability or seriousness of these criminal offences against the views of an individual. 

If the the possibility of redemption is accepted, then how is this determined? In this particular case, it may be suggested that if Folau was to show respect for his fellow players, the fans and the general public, and refrain from comments that he is aware are widely unacceptable, then there no more that can be expected of him.

I believe the answer is rooted in whether the general populace consider he should have a second chance.

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I’m no religious scholar, but I don’t think Folau’s hate speech towards gay people is quite what Jesus had in mind?

My own personal hope is that Folau doesn’t make it in Super League and we can then draw a line under this embarrassing episode for the sport.

If he is successful, then reference to his outspoken views will cast a shadow over anything he achieves.

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3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I didnt mention a referendum,

But yes, peoples political preference is usually quite easy to spot from the things they say and do.

But lets be honest here Harry, you have defended Folau somewhat, am I wrong?

Saying I have defended him is a bit strong, but I believe it has been blown out of all proportion, and yes if you are looking for me to say it, I look forward to seeing him pkay RL again.

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1 minute ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I’m no religious scholar, but I don’t think Folau’s hate speech towards gay people is quite what Jesus had in mind?

My own personal hope is that Folau doesn’t make it in Super League and we can then draw a line under this embarrassing episode for the sport.

If he is successful, then reference to his outspoken views will cast a shadow over anything he achieves.

He doesn’t make it in Super League???

I’m not sure the Rugby League Australian International and Origin star will struggle at Belle Vue, I think he will “make it”

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1 minute ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

He doesn’t make it in Super League???

I’m not sure the Rugby League Australian International and Origin star will struggle at Belle Vue, I think he will “make it”

You’re probably right - be prepared for the sport to have a tarnished image then.

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1 minute ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

You’re probably right - be prepared for the sport to have a tarnished image then.

His comments will be largely forgotten by most in a few weeks. Does allowing Zak Hardaker to play tarnish the image of the sport, or is his criminal past largely forgotten?

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5 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Latest from today's SL meeting. Basically reads 'we can't do anything about Folau but we will make sure a situation like this doesn't happen again' 

 

 

So a complete waste of time for the puritanical Super League chairman.

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Just now, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

His comments will be largely forgotten by most in a few weeks. Does allowing Zak Hardaker to play tarnish the image of the sport, or is his criminal past largely forgotten?

He has a much bigger profile than Zak Hardaker, who is utterly unknown by the wider sporting public.

I severely doubt that Folau’s past is going to be forgotten about by a media that brought it up in an instant when his signing was announced.

The more Folau succeeds the more it will be referenced in my opinion as he has shown no remorse for his comments.

 

 

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Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and I’m a big believer in free speech where it doesn’t incite hatred or misinform.

Israel Folau is entitled to spout off on Twitter about what he feels, but if the majority of us think he’s being unfair to homosexual people who happen to be born liking the same sex, then he should be prepared to bear the brunt of that.   As an international sports star he is someone for the majority to look up to.   Stating ‘hell awaits’ certain people for being born the way they are was totally unnecessary and a view he could have kept to himself.

As I say, free speech and all that - but on the other side of the coin be prepared to be shut out by the majority if they don’t agree with your views.

‘Shoulda betta known betta’...

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I admit I've done a u-turn on this one because I think we should simply show everyone is welcome in our sport that's what inclusivity means. His views are not welcome and that is a very different thing.

And if it means that our sport shows just how inclusive it is because the Dragons signed him then win it is!

I thought Elstone did a good job on this on Inside Super league.


 

 

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13 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

He has a much bigger profile than Zak Hardaker, who is utterly unknown by the wider sporting public.

I severely doubt that Folau’s past is going to be forgotten about by a media that brought it up in an instant when his signing was announced.

The more Folau succeeds the more it will be referenced in my opinion as he has shown no remorse for his comments.

 

 

So you can be a homophobic, student-beating, drug cheat like Hardaker...as long as you're not as high-profile as Folau???

Or you can be a convicted wife-beater like Lui???

When will Elstone and SL take steps to block those players?

I am in  no way defending IF - I'm suggesting we have just set ourselves up for a fall, next time one of our players falls foul of the social standards we are now the defenders of.

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43 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Tried to keep out of this topic, but I work with fans from Warrington, wigan, saints, leigh, widnes and Bradford and I've not spoke to one who actually cares about what Folau has tweeted or that he has signed for cats. Not a single fan and i speak to hundreds. They just don't care, if aclubs thinks they need to put a match as a pride festival, the question is why wait for Folau to arrive. And I won't boo him at Warrington ( I don't boo any player). 

I am from Warrington and I care about it. The two other people from Warrington I have spoken to on this (my brother and my best mate) also care about it and are disappointed in Catalans and glad Wire went nowhere near him. 

 

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24 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

You’re probably right - be prepared for the sport to have a tarnished image then.

What about football, where convicted rapists and people jailed for serious assault and even manslaughter have returned to the game? Do you think theirs is more acceptable behaviour than Folau’s?

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On a really simple basis, Folau is telling a section of our customer base (and an often vulnerable one at that) that they are going to hell. 

When we as a game are working in the community this just is completely at odds with what we are trying to do as a sport. 

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4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I am from Warrington and I care about it. The two other people from Warrington I have spoken to on this (my brother and my best mate) also care about it and are disappointed in Catalans and glad Wire went nowhere near him. 

 

Did you care about signing street-brawling drunk Chris Sandow?

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

On a really simple basis, Folau is telling a section of our customer base (and an often vulnerable one at that) that they are going to hell. 

When we as a game are working in the community this just is completely at odds with what we are trying to do as a sport. 

He said we were all pretty much going to hell, not just gays. Atheists, fornicators etc. etc. etc.

He's a prize knob, who believes the bible is a literal work.  But he smacked no-one, shagged no-one, didn't get a teammates wife pregnant, do drugs, beat his wife...

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Just now, Eddie said:

What about football, where convicted rapists and people jailed for serious assault and even manslaughter have returned to the game? Do you think theirs is more acceptable behaviour than Folau’s?

If you had read my comments carefully you would have noticed that I’m not trying to ban his return to rugby league.

I am just warning that Folau’s comments about gay people are abhorrent and have been widely condemned.

He is high enough profile for that to garner rugby league a negative image no matter how many tries he runs in for Catalans.

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