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Shaun Wane’s first England squad (merged threads)


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Players that spring to mind are Watts, Watkins (hopefully finds form this year), Naulago, Williams, Griffin, Charnley, Tomkins, Makinson, Johnston

Maybe a couple of young players might put their hands up such as Walker, Ashton, Lees, Smithies, Byrne

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Here was the team for the first GB test against New Zealand:

Quote

Lomax; McGillvary, Hardaker, Connor, Hall; Widdop, Hastings; Hill, Hodgson, Burgess, Bateman, Whitehead, Graham 
Interchanges: Jones, Philbin, Clark, Walmsley.

I anticipate a few changes, both personnel and positional. If I was a betting man, I think Wane's full strength England side will be:

Tomkins
Makinson
Gildart
Percival
McGillvary
Williams
Lomax
T Burgess
Hodgson
Thompson
Bateman
Whitehead
Knowles

Farrell
Walmsley
Clarke
Watts

A few question marks in here too and possibilities. Hardaker with a good season could force his way in, same for Johnstone or even Charnley in place of McGillvary. If Williams doesn't shine in the NRL, then Hastings or Widdop may come in. I'll be honest, I don't know if T Burgess is any good anymore, if not, perhaps a reprieve for Hill, or even Philbin could retain his spot?

I'm not sure what Wane's view will be on heritage players. I believe he said he has no qualms in picking them, which would leave the door open for Hastings.

Another big decision is what Wane does with Roby, O Loughlin and Graham who are towards the back end of their careers. Is it time to phase them out for Clarke (playing a bigger role), Knowles and Watts?

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16 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Anybody who is or has played for Wigan 

That's some nice projecting, that is.

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

Just a bit of fun ?

Hard to tell, these days. But I'll take your word for it.

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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20 hours ago, AB90 said:

Agreed. In the history of rugby league I don't think there's ever been a better 19 year old prop and second row foward like these two. Imagine when there 24!

Sam Burgess had put the most feared prop in the world on his backside at a younger age than these two. 

They've hardly even played a game at the top level. 

People called Romans they go the house

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4 hours ago, Chris22 said:

I'll be honest, I don't know if T Burgess is any good anymore,

I thought he was one of the few players on the GB tour who didn't see his reputation go backwards.

This is a big year for him. Souths have seen their two pack leaders in Sam Burgess and Sutton retire while George has moved on. This has thrown Tom into the role of senior forward and could see him have a big year.

One thing is for sure, I think he is the better of the twins by a long way now.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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3 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Which two sides out of Samoa, France and Greece do you think have better squads then?

Samoa may well be a challenge based on the recent GB tour ?

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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9 hours ago, MrPosh said:

Sam Burgess had put the most feared prop in the world on his backside at a younger age than these two. 

They've hardly even played a game at the top level. 

You'd struggle to find another forward who at 19 had such an impact on test rugby as Sam did in that 2007 series.

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9 hours ago, MrPosh said:

Sam Burgess had put the most feared prop in the world on his backside at a younger age than these two. 

They've hardly even played a game at the top level. 

He did yes, and he was an outstanding young player.

As is Payne Haas. And yes, he has played and proved himself at the top level.

As a 19 year old Haas played 21 games of the 2019 NRL season. He was sixth in all running metres for the season and topped the running metres for a forward. He also came 4th overall for tackle busts and made the most tackle busts for a forward.

He has also been capped at State of Origin and test level.

I remain convinced he is the best forward prospect I have seen.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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11 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

I think by the end of the year, something like this could be close: Tomkins, Burgess, Griffin/Currie, Watkins, Makinson, Williams, Widdop, Thompson, Roby, Walmsley, Bateman, Whitehead, O'Loughlin Res: Watts, Graham, Savelio, Connor

I reckon that's a team that could beat Australia.

Burgess, Watkins, O'Loughlin, Graham, Williams, Currie - no.

Graham is a tough decision.  Defensively he can still do it, but it will depend on his form for St.George.  You could be right but i wouldnt gamble on it.

 

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On 08/02/2020 at 14:19, AB90 said:

I like your optimism. If we win 1 game I would consider that a great success and a good start for SW.

I can't see anything other than a convincing 3 nil win for the Aussies. With one loss where we really push them. Then the SW out calls will be out.

Was the Tonga v Australia game on TV here in November? I was at that game and it wasn't that Tonga were that good Aus were awful and it goes without saying how we played the same v NZ.

The saving grace for me is that we have changed our coach and hopefully coaches they obviously all had an input and both Watson and Ward said how good it was to work with Bennett his ideas and style, it was painful to watch the emphasis was just on completion rates nothing expansive whatsoever, I hope that Wane brings his own group in hopefully Paul Deacon as assistant.

Was it just a blip for the Aussies or is the absence of old school of Slater, Cronk, Thurston and Smith beginning to show? There seemed to be no on field general for Aus who could steady his charges, long may it continue.

Let's forget the old guard of Hill, Graham, Roby, Hall, Mcgilavray, O'Loughlin Hodgeson even Hastings and Austin, it is the start of a new era under Shaun Wane, time to be radical and change the near 50 year drought of a test series win, we do have the personnel to get the job done, have faith pick the lads in form and get it done.

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8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Was the Tonga v Australia game on TV here in November? I was at that game and it wasn't that Tonga were that good Aus were awful and it goes without saying how we played the same v NZ

Yes, we saw that game over here and I agree that Australia lacked control and direction.

Cameron Munster, Daly Cherry-Evans and Damien Cook are all fine players but they are not of the quality of Thurston, Cronk and Smith and you know the latter three would have strangled that game through field position and possession and the Kangaroos would have been victorious. 

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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On 08/02/2020 at 17:36, Scubby said:

We have to throw some guys in with a view to 2021. That is the only potential problem. Graham will not get to the RLWC, O'Loughlin won't be able to get down the stairs by October 2021.

Some guys have to be thrown in - maybe before they are ready. We simply don't have the time or games to blood players like Trueman and Johnstone. We just have to chuck them in. 

Not to sure that I agree with you Scubby, is it not the holy grail for every player to play international football and especially in GB/English terms v Australia, it is a debatable point of choosing the men in form and selecting for the future, a inform selection could go on to bigger and better things whilst the 'for the future' player may not reach the level expected of him, then again we could have those player's who perform admirably in the domestic game but are complete bobbins in the international arena no matter how many caps they receive, as I say a debatable point.

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On 08/02/2020 at 11:40, AB90 said:

Do not pick Graham, Hill and Hall and I'm happy. 

Regarding the upcoming 3 test ashes series - what will be considered a good result for England and Shaun Wane? Realistically!

A win for us 3-0 provided all three games are at the Mend a Hose Jungle.

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On 08/02/2020 at 21:18, Dunbar said:

I'm not saying don't play young players. I am saying play the best players.

I expect Thrueman to be in the team this year and I would hope the likes of Smithies gets a nod.

I just think the best way to manage an international team when we play so few games is simply to pick the best side from the available players each time. I don't care if the best player is 19 or 33, just pick the best.

The best possible preparation England can have for the World Cup is winning the ashes series... the confidence and momentum that would provide would be a million times better for England than giving a few players an extra 80 minutes. 

Please clarify to me Dunbar, have you a difference between 'the best available' or 'the inform player' at  game time?

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22 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Burgess, Watkins, O'Loughlin, Graham, Williams, Currie - no.

Graham is a tough decision.  Defensively he can still do it, but it will depend on his form for St.George.  You could be right but i wouldnt gamble on it.

 

There's lots of good players competing for spots, and very few who have actually cemented them. So I've just guessed on how it might look - for example, I'd have no worries with any of Johnstone, Manfredi, Charnley getting in over Burgess if they're playing better. I'm backing Williams to become a top 7 under Ricky Stuart so think he'll be there, but then again, I also think there's a chance he'll flop and maybe by the end of the year Jake Connor will be a world class playmaker. I think at their best, Currie and Watkins could make an outstanding centre pairing in test football - I wouldn't pick either right now, but I'm backing them to be there by the ashes. Graham and O'Loughlin I have in because I think they're leaders you need, but if they're not looking up to it (and I agree there's every chance they won't be) then pick whoever is. 

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6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Please clarify to me Dunbar, have you a difference between 'the best available' or 'the inform player' at  game time?

I think there is probably a subtle difference.

An 'inform' player is playing the best they can while the best available is the highest quality player available. But the two are very much related as you would not pick a player who has played well in the past but not currently playing well.

I would summarise by saying pick the best performing players when the squad is selected.

And (critically) pick them in their correct positions. I think we have suffered in the past by trying to shoehorn the best 13 players into the team rather than picking the best side.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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