The Greatest Rugby League Player of All Time

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

My fantastic brain. Where else?

Which of those top 13, or even top 17, would you dispute?

There are quite a few I didn't see play and so I cannot really comment on them but of the 17 I would definitely have Darren Lockyer over Slater at full back and Lewis over Thurstan at 6.

It's all opinions anyway... I was just checking that your team wasn't one that had been selected by an expert panel somewhere rather than your fantastic brain (that does sound a little "very stable genius" though!)

[Manfred Mann]

16 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

There are quite a few I didn't see play and so I cannot really comment on them but of the 17 I would definitely have Darren Lockyer over Slater at full back and Lewis over Thurstan at 6.

It's all opinions anyway... I was just checking that your team wasn't one that had been selected by an expert panel somewhere rather than your fantastic brain (that does sound a little "very stable genius" though!)

You are right about it all being opinions. However I have placed a lot of weight on the Australian list of Immortals (formerly chosen by rugby league journalists only, but now by a special panel of journalists and former players set up by the NRL), as well as by opinions expressed in the British rugby league media and on this forum. Though not totally in the latter case, since I regarded the award of Golden Boot to Kevin Sinfield as an appalling misjudgment at the time. I have seen most of the players listed actually play, though not Brian Bevan (who is though, it should be noted, on the announced short list for future membership of the Immortals).

You are also correct about the "very stable genius" comparison. Perhaps I have been infected by the poisonous rhetoric of Donald Trump. 

In Australia, the expert opinion would probably regard it as a close call to prefer Lewis over Thurston, even though Lewis's nick name is "King Wally." However it  is almost unanimous there that Billy Slater is the greatest full back of all time, and he is mentioned often as a future Immortal, much more so than Darren Lockyer. It should also be noted that Lockyer, unlike Slater, was a weak defender. Slater's defence was one of his strengths.

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

The great Neil Fox 

[Dunbar]

8 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

It is almost unanimous there that Billy Slater is the greatest full back of all time, and he is mentioned often as a future Immortal, much more so than Darren Lockyer. It should also be noted that Lockyer, unlike Slater, was a weak defender.

It should also be noted that Lockyer was a much better captain than Slater, and a much better ball player and much less prone to brain fart mistakes.

I know you decided to put a laughing emoji next to my post and Slater was a great player but is it so laughable that I happen to think that the most capped Australian player of all time was a better full back?

[Manfred Mann]

1 minute ago, WakefieldCityLoyal said:

The great Neil Fox 

Fox was an outstanding player for Great Britain, but who would select him ahead of Gasnier or Meninga? 

[Manfred Mann]

1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

It should also be noted that Lockyer was a much better captain than Slater, and a much better ball player and much less prone to brain fart mistakes.

I know you decided to put a laughing emoji next to my post and Slater was a great player but is it so laughable that I happen to think that the most capped Australian player of all time was a better full back?

The laugh emoji was in reaction to the apt "very stable genius" comparison, not to your opinion of Lockyer vs Slater.

I don't know how many "brain fart" mistakes Slater made in his career, even though the ridiculous pass that led to a New Zealand try will always be remembered. I don't recall too many others.

Lockyer was a good captain, but Slater never had a chance to be tested as a captain because  his team mate Cameron Smith was always holding that position when Slater was playing for Melbourne, Queensland and Australia.

Most capped player is an impressive achievement. But it cannot override the fact that Slater was a great defender, preventing almost as many opposition tries, perhaps more, as he scored, while Lockyer was a weak defender, especially when playing at full back. That seems to me to be a far more important criterion of greatness. 

[Dunbar]

12 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

The laugh emoji was in reaction to the apt "very stable genius" comparison, not to your opinion of Lockyer vs Slater.

I don't know how many "brain fart" mistakes Slater made in his career, even though the ridiculous pass that led to a New Zealand try will always be remembered. I don't recall too many others.

Lockyer was a good captain, but Slater never had a chance to be tested as a captain because  his team mate Cameron Smith was always holding that position when Slater was playing for Melbourne, Queensland and Australia.

Most capped player is an impressive achievement. But it cannot override the fact that Slater was a great defender, preventing almost as many opposition tries, perhaps more, as he scored, while Lockyer was a weak defender, especially when playing at full back. That seems to me to be a far more important criterion of greatness. 

Ok, fair enough on the emoji.

I'm not 100% sure where this idea that Lockyer was a weak defender came from... I certainly don't remember that from his playing days. And the fact he transitioned to 6 later in his career and defended in the front line surely showed he was no weak link.

He may have missed a few tackles but who doesn't, there is one clip I remember of Slater being thrown off like a rag doll by one ball carrier. 

I am not negative about Slater at all but I think Lockyer was a better all round player and essentially the prototype for the modern full back we see today.

[Manfred Mann]

Of those players mentioned by me and others as the best, I would choose Andrew Johns as the greatest player of all time. He revolutionised half back play, especially with his  field kicking game (he invented the "banana" kick), his ability to read the game better than anyone else, his passing, and his powerful defence (which Thurston and other famous halves did not have). He was also one of the great goal kickers of all time.

Andrew Johns' prominent current role as a TV commentator in Australia for Channel 9 regularly demonstrates his brilliant mastery of analysing the game. 

Close behind Johns I would pick Arthur Beetson, undoubtedly the greatest prop of all time, who developed greatly under the fitness regimen of master coach Jack Gibson, and who dominated prop forward play during his era with his powerful strength, running metres, and offloads.

I was lucky enough to meet "Big Artie" a few times, once at an England vs Australia test at Wigan, and another time at Westminster, where he was receiving an award, when I was lucky enough to be able to have a photograph taken of us together with two others, and with his arm around my shoulder. He was a very friendly and down to earth man, even humble I would say. His premature death from a heart attack was a huge loss to the game.

[Pie tries]

Ellery.

obviously.

all other votes are merely for second place.

[Pulga]

2 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

However it  is almost unanimous there that Billy Slater is the greatest full back of all time, and he is mentioned often as a future Immortal, much more so than Darren Lockyer. It should also be noted that Lockyer, unlike Slater, was a weak defender. Slater's defence was one of his strengths.

Wow. I'm not sure what Australian media you are reading but you're off the mark by a mile.

Billy Slater is definitely considered to be the best fullback of all time but not by much. Lockyer is considered a future immortal. He was the world's best player in two different positions. 

He was probably a top 3 fullback and possibly best five-eighth of all time.

Slater won't be an immortal.

[UpTheRaiders]

Willie Horne

[Pulga]

I can't comment on the others but Lewis' inclusion is interesting.

He would be scraping into a top 5 Australian players at best.

Smith, Lockyer, Thurston and Johns all ahead of him comfortably.

Then players like Slater, Langer, Meninga are around his level.

[aj1908]

6 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

You are right about it all being opinions. However I have placed a lot of weight on the Australian list of Immortals (formerly chosen by rugby league journalists only, but now by a special panel of journalists and former players set up by the NRL), as well as by opinions expressed in the British rugby league media and on this forum. Though not totally in the latter case, since I regarded the award of Golden Boot to Kevin Sinfield as an appalling misjudgment at the time. I have seen most of the players listed actually play, though not Brian Bevan (who is though, it should be noted, on the announced short list for future membership of the Immortals).

You are also correct about the "very stable genius" comparison. Perhaps I have been infected by the poisonous rhetoric of Donald Trump. 

In Australia, the expert opinion would probably regard it as a close call to prefer Lewis over Thurston, even though Lewis's nick name is "King Wally." However it  is almost unanimous there that Billy Slater is the greatest full back of all time, and he is mentioned often as a future Immortal, much more so than Darren Lockyer. It should also be noted that Lockyer, unlike Slater, was a weak defender. Slater's defence was one of his strengths.

Churchill is.the greatest full.back 

[aj1908]

44 minutes ago, Pulga said:

I'm 34 so I only just remember Lewis. 

There are some great props from the past though and you're right, they don't get much credit. Glen Lazarus and Shane Webke were the best that I've seen. 

I'd predict the "Immortals" would have to have been pretty bloody good but I can't speak for them because I didn't see them play.

Lewis was brilliant.  Every year in origin he would beat a nsw side full of stars as the star

Manly almost signed him in 87 I think and they were going to play him 6 in front of cliff Lyons 

You should read his book 

I used to hate him with a passion 

What a player 

[Tom Moore]

20 hours ago, weloveyouwakefield2 said:

125 years and they reduce it to those 5 players, are they having a laugh??

Kevin Sinfield?! 

That's it, no more wine for me on Saturday nights, I'm evidently still drunk. 

[JohnM]

Great. the RFL runs a competition to create interest debate,  thought, involvement around the sport outside of actual games.....and dare I say it...some  F.U.N. (E.X?) And guess what happens on here?

 

[Moove]

4 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Great. the RFL runs a competition to create interest debate,  thought, involvement around the sport outside of actual games.....and dare I say it...some  F.U.N. (E.X?) And guess what happens on here?

 

It would help if they did it properly, it's not a particularly difficult concept. People aren't being negative for the sake of it

[JohnM]

10 minutes ago, Moove said:

It would help if they did it properly, it's not a particularly difficult concept. People aren't being negative for the sake of it

People aren't being negative for the sake of it

Hmmmm...is that so.  Perhaps it's genetic.

[Rhinoferg]

Can't believe Beaver didn't make the top 5.

Steve Menzies 

[Old Frightful]

How can this be an "all time" list?

Not one of these players played in SL.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

(*Tongue in cheek swipe at that other thread title.)

[JDINTHEHIZZOUSE]

5 hours ago, aj1908 said:

Lewis was brilliant.  Every year in origin he would beat a nsw side full of stars as the star

Manly almost signed him in 87 I think and they were going to play him 6 in front of cliff Lyons 

You should read his book 

I used to hate him with a passion 

What a player 

inventor off the offload too aj,amazing team player,but he could turn a game individually with a moment of magic,but hanley was harry potter in comparison

[Allora]

5 hours ago, aj1908 said:

Lewis was brilliant.  Every year in origin he would beat a nsw side full of stars as the star

Manly almost signed him in 87 I think and they were going to play him 6 in front of cliff Lyons 

You should read his book 

I used to hate him with a passion 

What a player 

Unless NSW played Brett Kenny in his Club position of 5/8 instead of moving him to the Centres.

 

I have met Wally a few times, great bloke.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

The guy most likely to win you a game - Wally Lewis. Right behind him Alex Murphy. Best prop I ever saw Arthur Beetson. There's too many bloody good players from the old days to mention, Neil Fox, Bobby Fulton, Frank Myler, Roger the Dodger, Paul Charlton was a great full back in his day as was Graham Eadie. Stevo was the best hooker I ever saw.

[Sports Prophet]

12 hours ago, Pulga said:

I can't comment on the others but Lewis' inclusion is interesting.

He would be scraping into a top 5 Australian players at best.

Smith, Lockyer, Thurston and Johns all ahead of him comfortably.

Then players like Slater, Langer, Meninga are around his level.

So much of what Wally did was away from the eye of the NSW supporters. Only to see him play regularly in the backend of his career when the Broncos. He certainly turned it on against the Blues whilst still hailing from QRL.

[Sports Prophet]

9 hours ago, Celt said:

To put it mildly....

The greatest Rugby League player ever.... and the RFL have nominated 4 Brits and 1 Australian.  

2 Australians and yes, it is pretty pissweak