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What to do with South Wales?


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Another cup exit today for WWR at hands of amateur opposition - another season of struggle beckons.

Today’s 17 featured 12 Welshman with 5 of them under the age of 23. Of those five I think League One is their level - I’d argue only Archie Snook has the potential to go further.

The majority of the young welsh talent in South Wales seems to be lost to university, the following players taking that route over the last few seasons include:

- Cobi Green, Dewi Billingham (Bradford)

- Sion Jones, Curtis Davies, Connor Davies, Fraser Stroud (Halifax)

- Rhys Davies (Dewsbury)
 

What does every player have in common in that list? They’re from South Wales but attended Leeds Met University and that seems to be the stepping stone that many take to a higher standard of rugby league. 

No welsh player has left West Wales Raiders for a lucrative contract at a bigger or better club - not one. 

So what’s the solution? 
 

For me - withdraw the Raiders and direct resources into a South Wales U18s team in the SL Under 18 league. That then puts players in the shop window every week for teams that run reserve grade teams and also on the doorstop every other week of more established championship and league one clubs.

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15 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

Another cup exit today for WWR at hands of amateur opposition - another season of struggle beckons.

Today’s 17 featured 12 Welshman with 5 of them under the age of 23. Of those five I think League One is their level - I’d argue only Archie Snook has the potential to go further.

The majority of the young welsh talent in South Wales seems to be lost to university, the following players taking that route over the last few seasons include:

- Cobi Green, Dewi Billingham (Bradford)

- Sion Jones, Curtis Davies, Connor Davies, Fraser Stroud (Halifax)

- Rhys Davies (Dewsbury)
 

What does every player have in common in that list? They’re from South Wales but attended Leeds Met University and that seems to be the stepping stone that many take to a higher standard of rugby league. 

No welsh player has left West Wales Raiders for a lucrative contract at a bigger or better club - not one. 

So what’s the solution? 
 

For me - withdraw the Raiders and direct resources into a South Wales U18s team in the SL Under 18 league. That then puts players in the shop window every week for teams that run reserve grade teams and also on the doorstop every other week of more established championship and league one clubs.

Do they have a team in the Southern Conference?

 

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19 minutes ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

Do they have a team in the Southern Conference?

 

Not directly but there are 2 welsh teams in that league - Torfaen and another. Cardiff were in it last year but have dropped down the Welsh league for this year, replaced by Devon Sharks

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I admire the players, staff and supporters of West Wales who keep going back when they know they’re going to get beat 99 times out of 100. 
 

They’re a million miles off League 1 standard and I’d be astonished if they win a game this season. Coventry at home would be their only chance. 
 

It’s sad because there’s some great people involved at the club. But you have to start asking questions. How many games have they won in the last five seasons? Is it more than ten? 

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Wrong choice of coach, had attracted no players. Last season, Kim Williams, decent coach but attracted no players. They need players that can compete in the league, not welsh amateurs that are gonna get pumped week in week out. 

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2 minutes ago, RLNew said:

Wrong choice of coach, had attracted no players. Last season, Kim Williams, decent coach but attracted no players. They need players that can compete in the league, not welsh amateurs that are gonna get pumped week in week out. 

I think location is part of the issue, Llanelli is a small town pretty much far-removed from much else.

Let’s look at amateur clubs in South Wales and rank them by junior activity and their distance to Raiders HQ. 

Torfaen (4 junior sides) - 1 hr 20 mins drive

Cardiff (4 junior sides) - 1 hr 7 mins drive

Aber Valley (3 junior sides) - 1 hr 9 mins drive

Bridgend (3 junior sides) - 50 mins drive

Llanelli (2 junior sides) - 10 minute drive

Rhondda (2 junior sides) - 1 hr 6 mins drive

Cynon Valley (1 junior side) - 47 minute drive

 

As we can see the Raiders are a non-heartland team outside of their own local heartland. This in itself does not bode well. 

Any junior in South Wales with potential will earn more playing local RU at the age of 18 and travel far, far less for a home game.

The ideal base for any club in South Wales in Cardiff or Pontypridd. Not Llanelli

 

 

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9 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

I think location is part of the issue, Llanelli is a small town pretty much far-removed from much else.

Let’s look at amateur clubs in South Wales and rank them by junior activity and their distance to Raiders HQ. 

Torfaen (4 junior sides) - 1 hr 20 mins drive

Cardiff (4 junior sides) - 1 hr 7 mins drive

Aber Valley (3 junior sides) - 1 hr 9 mins drive

Bridgend (3 junior sides) - 50 mins drive

Llanelli (2 junior sides) - 10 minute drive

Rhondda (2 junior sides) - 1 hr 6 mins drive

Cynon Valley (1 junior side) - 47 minute drive

 

As we can see the Raiders are a non-heartland team outside of their own local heartland. This in itself does not bode well. 

Any junior in South Wales with potential will earn more playing local RU at the age of 18 and travel far, far less for a home game.

The ideal base for any club in South Wales in Cardiff or Pontypridd. Not Llanelli

 

 

Agree about the location. Miles from the m62 corridor 

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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11 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Trouble is when west wales fold another attempt will be made to spread the word where it’s not wanted

It’s wanted in South Wales, just not that far west.

There were 11 coaches doing their L1 with Wales RL in Cardiff today. 3 women’s sides this year and a flurry of schools taking up our code.

Theres interest, trust me Dean just not enough to quantify support for an atrocious semi-pro side an hour away from 90% of the activity.

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7 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

Or scrap the salary cap so SL clubs can sign top welsh union players, promote rl and Wales RL more to try and get more kids playing rl

Scrap the salary cap and bust themselves in the process?

 

It's got to be done in a financially viable way. 

 

Spot on with getting more kids playing through. Simple numbers game. Get an extra number of kids into the game and given ok coaching some will be a bit better and rise to the top. Hence why in the heartlands we get amateurs who have lots of teams at junior level supplying players to the top of the game consistently.

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23 minutes ago, Li0nhead said:

Scrap the salary cap and bust themselves in the process?

I really don't know why some people always try to conflate these two issues. A salary cap does not stop a club going bust. Neither does not having one lead to a club going bust.

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I have no doubt it will be another season of struggle for West Wales, but I believe in patience. If they are self sustaining, have the will to progress and can fulfil their requirements then we should support them and show patience, without calling for knee jerk reactions.

I remember when the likes of Gateshead were getting thumped week in, week out for 2-3 seasons in a row and look where they are now. They had even less junior/amateur setup around them as well

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4 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Correct

The thing is Deano, and we all get your disdain for expansion clubs, you aren't listening to what Welsh Magpie is actually saying. He lists 19 junior RL teams in South Wales, plus several amateur teams in the Southern Conference, together with 11 people doing their coaching badge today. Should we simply jettison this?

I wouldn't mind hazarding a guess that there is more RL activity in South Wales than there is in North Yorkshire. What's the excuse for why the success of York isn't producing RL activity from the East coast across the Harrogate?

Clearly there is a lot of good work being done in South Wales, but it's not being capped off with a viable and credible semi-pro club. I don't honestly know enough to know all the answers - but I trust what Welshmagpie says - somehow the semi-pro club needs to be relocated into Cardiff or it's environs. That would be a start. Then perhaps a sprinkling of seasoned L1 level players, or a workable DR arrangement with someone? Maybe then we can see some progress...

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I agree that WWR seem to have got the wrong location. Cardiff must surely be better just in terms of population 

Teams like WWR need a helping hand though. Each SL club should be forced to "adopt" a div 1 club and help them in a number of ways including:

- player loans / DR

- coaching

- inviting players to pre season training camps

- giving them an "on the road game" as part of a double header so the lower league players get to experience big stadia and crowds

- playing a pre season friendly at the div 1 club with a commitment to bring a few big names 

- advice re off field promotions and marketing

- help with promoting with local schools with high profile SL players attending

Just imagine if every div 1 team had an SL club as a mentor. Imagine if Sonny Bill visited town and went to a few schools. What about Regan Grace someone from the local scene who has made it big up north. Give West Wales a day out and chance to play as a curtain raiser to say Warrington/Saints. 

Would take a big change of mindset but SL clubs need to recognise there is life outside of SL and the more we do to develop the games as a while the bigger their share of the pie will be

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

Another cup exit today for WWR at hands of amateur opposition - another season of struggle beckons.

Today’s 17 featured 12 Welshman with 5 of them under the age of 23. Of those five I think League One is their level - I’d argue only Archie Snook has the potential to go further.

The majority of the young welsh talent in South Wales seems to be lost to university, the following players taking that route over the last few seasons include:

- Cobi Green, Dewi Billingham (Bradford)

- Sion Jones, Curtis Davies, Connor Davies, Fraser Stroud (Halifax)

- Rhys Davies (Dewsbury)
 

What does every player have in common in that list? They’re from South Wales but attended Leeds Met University and that seems to be the stepping stone that many take to a higher standard of rugby league. 

No welsh player has left West Wales Raiders for a lucrative contract at a bigger or better club - not one. 

So what’s the solution? 

Having 12 Welshmen in the 17 is very ambitious, they need more teammates who have experience playing Championship rugby or higher. 

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York has rugby union club with lots of teams at various age groups as do lots of places in the surrounding area like Harrogate and Malton. That doesn’t mean they want to be part of the pro set up

sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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