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Marquee player in the Championship?


gnidir

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3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Perhaps an easier loophole to exploit would be to go out and sign say an Owen Farrell, or maybe a youngster like. Nanai-Setero that played league as a youngster but didnt play pro from union, sign him on a £3m 1 year deal which doesnt count on the cap at all under the new talent pool exemption then offer a new contract for then next 2 years for £10k a year. 

Fills the squad out for free this year under the dispensation and then gives the cheap players for the next few

Cracking idea Grommit , until he renages on year 2 and 3 ?

No seriously , sneaky , but not strictly ileagal , trust you to think of it ?

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48 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Yeah the contracts are pretty much averaged across the length of the contract. 

But what I'm suggesting is that they sign, let's say Farrell on a big £3m 1 year deal, then another contract at a very low rate in years 2 and 3. It would be 2 contracts rather than 1. So it wouldnt be averaged over 3 years because it was 2 contracts.

Would have to be a gentleman's agreement. He'd most likely take the huge deal, then look elsewhere for a better deal after the first year.

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11 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I'm sure there is a way of wording the contract and scheduling the 2nd and 3rd years. There is nothing to stop farrell signing a contract for 2022 in 2020. You include some liquidated damages based around loss of sponsorships, shirt sales, ticket sales, the contribution made to staying in SL etc.

Plus you dont have to pay all the £3m in year 1. You could spread the actual payment across ten years if you wish, the SC works on when you become liable for it and you can create an agreement you feel comfortable with. 

Isn't that just a way to circumvent the salary cap, in which they'd probably just take an average of all the monies owed? Spirit of the cap and all that?

I don't know the full ins and outs, but it doesn't seem a legit way to do it.

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There could be a few ways round this - could a team like TWP raid the lower divisions and get an experienced playmaker in mid season like say Chase from Doncaster on a 2 year deal pay him say 10K this season and then following season just pay him say £400,000? - 2 year deal on £410000?

Or they could pay slightly over the cap get some more players on, stay in SL and take a fine or point deduction next season?

To be honest just get rid of the cap and let the clubs run themselves like any other buisness. 

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

It is literally an attempt to circumvent the cap. But the 'spirit of the cap' area of the rules is on a lot shakier ground than the proscribed areas. After all it's a punishment for playing by the rules.

My other question is, why cant clubs take advantage of cap space in a given year? Why, if I have say 250k spare in year 1, cant I overpay in year 1 to under pay in year 2, 3, 4 etc. Why is that cap space just wasted?

I'm guessing because it doesn't rollover. Whether it should is another debate I guess. 

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9 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Well it wouldnt carry over, I can see why that causes problems. If it did aggregate a club like wakefield would have tens of millions in cap space by now

I also understand the difficulties in back loading contracts and the problems that could cause in terms of getting to a point where you physically cant fit anyone else under the cap + what you owe, but front loading is another matter entirely. I cant see why it isnt allowed

Because it's CHEATING ?

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On 13/02/2020 at 23:21, gnidir said:

Just wondering if the championship has an allowance for marquee players?

 

It might be a rule fiddle, but could Toronto make two marquee signings for Rochdale and play them in super league on loan?

 

 

 

 

On 14/02/2020 at 10:09, Hela Wigmen said:

I thought the salary cap was the same throughout the three leagues, so I presume you can get a marquee player if you’re in the lower leagues. 

Yes you can have a marquee player in the Championship and L1 (TWP had 2 in 2019) with the same rules applying as for SL.

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The cap employed in RL works, we still, have those that have at the top ,except Leeds of course, but their wealth will eventually put them back up there cap or not, what happens if the cap is abolished as far as the league structure goes the all the top players will be at the top clubs they will employ them just because they can. The competition will be between just 4 or 5 clubs it near enough is now and we have a cap in place, don't ever expect a team like Salford to come from nowhere and be challenging for the Honours again without a cap if just won't happen.

And don't give me an excuse of what about TWP, they supposedly had a 5 year plan, had they put that into operation as far as contracts and players are concerned they would be much better of, people rejoiced that they were ahead of schedule but they treated it like running the 1500 meters and jumped out of the blocks, without considering they still had a couple of laps to go.

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On 13/02/2020 at 23:21, gnidir said:

Just wondering if the championship has an allowance for marquee players?

 

It might be a rule fiddle, but could Toronto make two marquee signings for Rochdale and play them in super league on loan?

 

 

 

Don’t think this would a work as if these players played x number of games for TWP then their full salary would count on the cap. 

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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

The cap employed in RL works, we still, have those that have at the top ,except Leeds of course, but their wealth will eventually put them back up there cap or not, what happens if the cap is abolished as far as the league structure goes the all the top players will be at the top clubs they will employ them just because they can. The competition will be between just 4 or 5 clubs it near enough is now and we have a cap in place, don't ever expect a team like Salford to come from nowhere and be challenging for the Honours again without a cap if just won't happen.

And don't give me an excuse of what about TWP, they supposedly had a 5 year plan, had they put that into operation as far as contracts and players are concerned they would be much better of, people rejoiced that they were ahead of schedule but they treated it like running the 1500 meters and jumped out of the blocks, without considering they still had a couple of laps to go.

Yep as fast as Usain is , he ain't winning any Olympic medals in the Marathon 

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3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Didnt leigh go straight back down both times they came up? Didnt they score all of 5 points the first time?

That's not a dig at them, just pointing out that pretty much all clubs that come up struggle in their first season. 

Perhaps what it takes to get out of the championship isnt what it takes to stay in SL

True on both occasions , although let's not forget we had a £250K cap to get promoted in 2004 and then had to recruit virtually from scratch , 3 years earlier Widnes got promoted by spending much more than that , but also had a 2 month start on the existing SL clubs for recruitment , they finished 7th if I recall correctly 

Maybe that is what it needs ?

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On 13/02/2020 at 23:21, gnidir said:

Just wondering if the championship has an allowance for marquee players?

 

It might be a rule fiddle, but could Toronto make two marquee signings for Rochdale and play them in super league on loan?

 

 

 

How can one RL Club, Toronto make 2 player signings (marquee or otherwise) for another RL Club, Rochdale? 

So the answer is definitely no, Toronto could not make two signings for Rochdale. 

Ps. Your other question regarding marquee players as already been answered on this thread, yes the Chsmpionship does have an allowance for marquee players, it's the same as for SL. 

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46 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I'm not sure holding up widnes as good example of long term planning really works.

Fact is, bridging that gap between SL and the championship is really difficult whether you are going up or down

Where does long term planning come into it ?

Widnes like Toronto kept a large % of their promotion team but did have 2 months extra time to recruit 

The bottom line is Toronto have overspent in getting promoted ( there was no need for Marquee players in the Championship ) and seem to have ignored the need to fill in their squad to see them through a SL season 

Should they get some dispensation ?, IMO , yes the home grown and over 10 years rules are of no use to them and therefore they should get some allowance for that , the ' living allowance weighting ' is nonsense as they don't actually take up any residence in Canada 

Maybe an ' Astley living allowance weighting ' ? ?

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55 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I'm not sure holding up widnes as good example of long term planning really works.

Fact is, bridging that gap between SL and the championship is really difficult whether you are going up or down

As it is in all sports

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44 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Where does long term planning come into it ?

Widnes like Toronto kept a large % of their promotion team but did have 2 months extra time to recruit 

The bottom line is Toronto have overspent in getting promoted ( there was no need for Marquee players in the Championship ) and seem to have ignored the need to fill in their squad to see them through a SL season 

Should they get some dispensation ?, IMO , yes the home grown and over 10 years rules are of no use to them and therefore they should get some allowance for that , the ' living allowance weighting ' is nonsense as they don't actually take up any residence in Canada 

Maybe an ' Astley living allowance weighting ' ? ?

I have just moved, now living on the border of Astley & Tyldesley do I qualify for a living allowance, please!

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1 hour ago, Smudger06 said:

How can one RL Club, Toronto make 2 player signings (marquee or otherwise) for another RL Club, Rochdale? 

So the answer is definitely no, Toronto could not make two signings for Rochdale. 

Ps. Your other question regarding marquee players as already been answered on this thread, yes the Chsmpionship does have an allowance for marquee players, it's the same as for SL. 

TBH one Marquee signing would use up most, and quite probably all, of Rochdale's allowable cap spend and even if they could sign one if that player was loaned to TWP their FULL salary would count on the cap since they already have 2 marquees...…...

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32 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

TBH one Marquee signing would use up most, and quite probably all, of Rochdale's allowable cap spend and even if they could sign one if that player was loaned to TWP their FULL salary would count on the cap since they already have 2 marquees...…...

True, where a SL Club receives a loan player, that players contract value at his parent club is taken into account. So if his annual salary is £500k and Twp get him on loan for 6 months, that would be £250k onto their cap, regardless of the loan deal between clubs.

Rochdale are permitted to spend the full cap unless they are in special measures? Are they in special measures? Not sure. However, if Toronto were to send them money, who's to say Rochdale will spend that money on signing SL quality players capable of rescuing Toronto in the 1st instance and that they would agree to loan said player to Toronto in the 2nd instance! 

That's before the situation in paragraph 1 above makes the whole exercise pointless anyway! 

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8 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

True, where a SL Club receives a loan player, that players contract value at his parent club is taken into account. So if his annual salary is £500k and Twp get him on loan for 6 months, that would be £250k onto their cap, regardless of the loan deal between clubs.

Rochdale are permitted to spend the full cap unless they are in special measures? Are they in special measures? Not sure. However, if Toronto were to send them money, who's to say Rochdale will spend that money on signing SL quality players capable of rescuing Toronto in the 1st instance and that they would agree to loan said player to Toronto in the 2nd instance! 

That's before the situation in paragraph 1 above makes the whole exercise pointless anyway! 

No, the rule is the lower of £2.1m or the club's sustainable cap (to try at least) to prevent overspending. With a fixed cap for all, you would have the situation where a club could have an income of say £400k but still be allowed to spend £2.1m!

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26 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

No, the rule is the lower of £2.1m or the club's sustainable cap (to try at least) to prevent overspending. With a fixed cap for all, you would have the situation where a club could have an income of say £400k but still be allowed to spend £2.1m!

For all SL Clubs and for Championship Clubs in Special Measures, that is the rule yes.

Probably to Save the work & expense in setting and monitoring every Clubs Sustainable cap, according to the Financial Sustainability Regulations:

'Championship and League 1 Clubs are permitted to spend up to the Finite Cap with the exception of Clubs who have been placed in Special Measures....  '

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