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marklaspalmas

2020 1895 Cup

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21 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

1. The players are professional. The clubs charge entrance money to the spectators. The ultimate reward for two clubs is to play at Wembley.

2. This is a weak argument. Only the 2nd round is scheduled for midweek. The other rounds are set to be played on the same weekends as the latter rounds of the CC. Of course, Bardford showed last years the problems that can cause. But possibly maybe having to play a single midweek away game in a whole season is an excuse for pulling out? Poor show.

 

 

Rent, floodlight costs, non-matchday staffing costs, referee costs, coach travel etc all add up. 

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9 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Rent, floodlight costs, non-matchday staffing costs, referee costs, coach travel etc all add up. 

Yes. Some of these clubs are professional in name only.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Yes. Some of these clubs are professional in name only.

How many teams in the Championship are fully professional? I’m sure I read that Featherstone players weren’t professional before the MPG and the media played on Halifax players working the day after playing Saints in the Challenge Cup Semi. 

Widnes are a hybrid, I believe, London are professional, I’m not sure on Toulouse or Leigh. Barring those sides, I’m not sure if anyone else would be full time. 

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1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

As I’ve said, there’s a choice whether replays go ahead in the first two tournaments (teams choose), both tournaments are regionalised up to a point and most of the top tier National League sides are professional these days. A quick look at the NPL Challenge Cup doesn’t seem to show too many (any, in fact) with 
journeys close to 650 miles. 

Just because it happens, it also doesn’t mean it’s right either. 

Kings Lynn to Workington Town would be a beast of a journey. The other night Barrow played at Dover in the conference, midweek - I doubt either of them are full time. It does happen, and the clubs must be ok with it otherwise it wouldn’t happen. The problem in RL is the games being close together being too physically demanding, not the fact that they have a bit of a journey to play. 

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15 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

How many teams in the Championship are fully professional? I’m sure I read that Featherstone players weren’t professional before the MPG and the media played on Halifax players working the day after playing Saints in the Challenge Cup Semi. 

Widnes are a hybrid, I believe, London are professional, I’m not sure on Toulouse or Leigh. Barring those sides, I’m not sure if anyone else would be full time. 

You're confusing two things. If you are paid, you are professional. How many make a full time living out of RL is a different question.

All this stuff about losing money on petrol,  how much it costs to switch the lights on etc. make the clubs look anything but 'professional' in terms of how these clubs are run. It's harsh to say it, and in the case of development area clubs you have to have a lot of sympathy, but ......

If a club can't afford to play rugby league and enter a valid rugby league competition, are they really a professional rugby league club?

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Really well organised, 2nd round to be played w/e 01/05/20, when we are due to play Sheffield Eagles Away, 3rd round w/e 17/05/20 we play Widnes at Home, didn't they think of that before announcing the league fixtures?

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59 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

You're confusing two things. If you are paid, you are professional. How many make a full time living out of RL is a different question.

All this stuff about losing money on petrol,  how much it costs to switch the lights on etc. make the clubs look anything but 'professional' in terms of how these clubs are run. It's harsh to say it, and in the case of development area clubs you have to have a lot of sympathy, but ......

If a club can't afford to play rugby league and enter a valid rugby league competition, are they really a professional rugby league club?

And there we have the answer, a lot of them are not...........why do you think there’s been this rumoured restructure 

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Skolars aren’t because of travel costs (god knows we have to travel enough without this) and also risk of injury’s. We don’t have a massive squad or opportunity for loans if people get injured. It’s a shame but I see the logic. 

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5 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

Skolars aren’t because of travel costs (god knows we have to travel enough without this) and also risk of injury’s. We don’t have a massive squad or opportunity for loans if people get injured. It’s a shame but I see the logic. 

There is still a recollection of the last time we had a game in Cumbria rearranged to midweek. At that time there were something like seven teachers in the first time and, as it was during termtime, all were refused permission to have time off by their schools. in order to get a team out some of the under 18s had to be signed on. it was a long way to go for an incredibly understrength team to get a complete walloping. 

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3 hours ago, marklaspalmas said:

The ultimate reward for two clubs is to play at Wembley.

Although as a supporter of Oldham who have never played at Wembley, the "reward" of playing the final of this competition there just wouldn't provide the same thrill as if it was the Challenge Cup Final. Therefore, for me, they might as well play the final anywhere.

 

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4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

It is a shame, and it reveals a real issue with the level of professionalism of both the game's organisation and the clubs that play it.

Non league football down to division 11 (in a straight line from the Premier League) manages midweek league cups with longer journey times than most of these matches would have.

Not many 16 stone athletes knocking you on your a##e 10-20 times a game in football, though.

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6 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Not many 16 stone athletes knocking you on your a##e 10-20 times a game in football, though.

No, agreed. And it’s not like for like.

But it’s not like these clubs are playing an overly congested summer of rugby.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Personally if they are serious with this comp I would scrap summer bash in turn of the last 16 being played over the weekend 4 games a day. I disagree with midweek fixtures so would have 2 other break weeks (quarters and semi final) extending the season at the end to compensate. Maybe with one of those weeks being magic weekend and swapping them around so you have last 16 at Blackpool, magic weekend the weekend after for super league with Quarters being played too at home venues for the clubs

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

No, agreed. And it’s not like for like.

But it’s not like these clubs are playing an overly congested summer of rugby.

Again, because it’s not like for like, 40-50 games of football over a season (though it’s unlikely a non-league player will play in all) is probably quite different on the body to 20 games of Rugby League (as League One plays) over a similar period of time. 

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It might be because I’ve had one eye on it all day at work and I love anything to do with the NRL but would a 9’s competition work instead of a normal knockout tournament?

The final or even Semi-Finals and Final could take place at Wembley before the Cup Final in the 1895 Cup slot perhaps. 

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19 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

It might be because I’ve had one eye on it all day at work and I love anything to do with the NRL but would a 9’s competition work instead of a normal knockout tournament?

The final or even Semi-Finals and Final could take place at Wembley before the Cup Final in the 1895 Cup slot perhaps. 

It wouldn’t work for me, it’s a different game. 

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39 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Again, because it’s not like for like, 40-50 games of football over a season (though it’s unlikely a non-league player will play in all) is probably quite different on the body to 20 games of Rugby League (as League One plays) over a similar period of time. 

Non league clubs don’t have massive squads, their players play far more than premiership players, some of whom appear incapable of playing twice in a week. 

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23 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Non league clubs don’t have massive squads, their players play far more than premiership players, some of whom appear incapable of playing twice in a week. 

Some professional clubs don’t have massive squads and some non-league clubs use 40-60 players a season, so while the respective clubs play a lot more than say Manchester City, they tend to use a lot more players. 

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4 hours ago, EssexRL said:

Skolars aren’t because of travel costs (god knows we have to travel enough without this) and also risk of injury’s. We don’t have a massive squad or opportunity for loans if people get injured. It’s a shame but I see the logic. 

I do have sympathy with development clubs who don't have local talent to draw on to bolster squad size and gave long distance travelling to do to the so-called heartlands but you are making excuses for a rugby league club not playing rugby league. Skolars play what? 12 home games a year? And say no thanks to a tasty game v a famous name Chamionship side because they might get injuries? No. I don't see the logic.

Not picking on Skolars. They have more of an excuse thsn Hunslet or Workington, but this is poor stuff.

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2 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

I do have sympathy with development clubs who don't have local talent to draw on to bolster squad size and gave long distance travelling to do to the so-called heartlands but you are making excuses for a rugby league club not playing rugby league. Skolars play what? 12 home games a year? And say no thanks to a tasty game v a famous name Chamionship side because they might get injuries? No. I don't see the logic.

Not picking on Skolars. They have more of an excuse thsn Hunslet or Workington, but this is poor stuff.

There’s no guarantees of a home game in the 1895 Cup, nor a “tasty” one at that. They’ll have to pay to rent their stadium for another game, if they’re required to and will have to rely on their being a good crowd to make any money. 

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5 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

There’s no guarantees of a home game in the 1895 Cup, nor a “tasty” one at that. They’ll have to pay to rent their stadium for another game, if they’re required to and will have to rely on their being a good crowd to make any money. 

You're right. Why bother? If you honestly believe what you're typing is a valid reason, those clubs may as well just pack in playing.

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8 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

You're right. Why bother? If you honestly believe what you're typing is a valid reason, those clubs may as well just pack in playing.

Not at all but given the lack of “guarantees” in place, I can see why the development clubs wouldn’t want to take part. 

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1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Not at all but given the lack of “guarantees” in place, I can see why the development clubs wouldn’t want to take part. 

What guarantees do clubs want or need? Competitions are created for clubs to take part in. There really isn't that much rugby league going on at League One level.

Get in the comp and do your best. The mindset of what-if-we-get-injuries or floodlights cost money or it's a long way to Batley is all wrong

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