Can the World Club Challenge survive and thrive?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I don't like the idea of playing the game after the Grand Finals. I get why people think it's a good idea, but in reality it wouldn't work.

It assumes that the WCC is a continuation of the SL/NRL playoffs. To do that could damage both of their Grand Finals. It comes across as a final are the finals, making the grand finals in theory semi finals. You're then extending the competitions by a few weeks and keeping the lid on celebrations which is a big part of the event feel.

It wouldn't solve anything. I think it would just put it in direct competition with the GFs, not to mention hinder the international game.

There are plenty of issues with the WCC. It being at the end of the season solves next to none of them.

[Smudger06]

15 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

https://www.totalrl.com/can-the-world-club-challenge-survive-and-thrive/

Couldn't agree more, Rotate Hemispheres annually (It has been played in both hemispheres anyway), synchronise GF's; SL Saturday Evening & NRL Sunday Night of the same weekend (which can happen anyway) Have WCC a fortnight after, producing time to celebrate Gfs, travel / prep & promote the event. 

Both League's believe it will devalue their respective Grand Finals however, that's the main hurdle. 

[whatmichaelsays]

Like the Challenge Cup final debate, I think debating about timings is akin to having a discussion about where to put deckchairs on the Titanic. The way to get the WCC taken seriously is to make it worth while for Australian teams to come here both in terms of the finances involved and the level of competition that we offer. 

So much about the game just smacks of it being a token effort. We know about the reluctance of certain NRL clubs to the WCC. Thankfully this year we had a team coached by Trent Robinson, who does seem to get the fact that RL can't solely exist within two small enclaves on opposite ends of the world.

Wasn't it the case that Huddersfield declined to take part in the three game series because they weren't confident that they would be able to sell enough tickets to cover the bond? If so, let's not kid ourselves that the lack of confidence and enthusiasm for this event is confined just to NRL clubs. 

The point about sponsors is a fair one - I had no idea Betfred were the sponsors until I saw the celebration photos. Either Betfred got the sponsorhip very cheaply as a sweetener once it became clear that one wasn't forthcoming, or Betfred should be massively p'ed off about the exposure that they got from the event. 

The only way you will get the NRL teams to take it seriously is if the financial rewards are big enough. Fair play to St Helens for getting a 16,000 crowd, but that's still pretty small-fry in the context of an international sports event when one of the participants is flying an entourage of 30-or so players and staff business class from Sydney to Manchester, via Barcelona. 

And the big elephant in the room? Super League teams simply aren't good enough. Yes, UK teams have had a good "dig" at the NRL teams in recent years, but by and large they just can't compete. The salary cap is too low, the money the game generates in this country is too low and, as a result, it's hard to recruit and retain talent that could otherwise get a gig in the NRL. 

[The Future is League]

Play it in Singapore with large ex pat communities and chase the corporate dollar.

[Allora]

1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

Play it in Singapore with large ex pat communities and chase the corporate dollar.

Why play it away from either Clubs fan base?

[Martyn Sadler]

10 hours ago, Allora said:

How do you lift a team to play in a WCC when you have just come off winning your comps Grand Final?

You would not get many Clubs backing a game two weeks after their grand final, certainly not NRL Clubs.

Most have their "Mad Monday" benders then go away on a Club trip/holiday overseas.

The players that are off contract moving to other Clubs would probably not be allowed to play in the WCC game either.

It should be alternated between England and Australia and the home team can provide the financial security for the visiting team so the ball is is in their court to promote and sell the concept.

The date is always going to be an issue but ideally it would be the opening game of both competitions if they were in alignment.

Everything would be much easier if the NRL and Super League seasons were coordinated to begin and end at the same time.

That is true whether we want the WCC to be played after the respective Grand Finals or as a curtain raiser to the new season.

[Allora]

6 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Everything would be much easier if the NRL and Super League seasons were coordinated to begin and end at the same time.

That is true whether we want the WCC to be played after the respective Grand Finals or as a curtain raiser to the new season.

The Super League season is too long, there are less teams playing more games than the NRL.

Playing the WCC after the Grand Finals will never work IMO.

Start the seasons at the same time and make the WCC the opening to the season and pump it up through the roof, alternate between Oz and England and it will find its place as a big event.

[Hela Wigmen]

Sell it to the Hearn’s or the company that pumped up the 2013 RLWC and get a prize fund for the winner that makes it worthwhile. 

No daft gimmicks or need to drag a season on even longer than it already is. 

[Allora]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Sell it to the Hearn’s or the company that pumped up the 2013 RLWC and get a prize fund for the winner that makes it worthwhile. 

No daft gimmicks or need to drag a season on even longer than it already is. 

I would not sell anything to the Hearn's and I doubt the power brokers in the NRL will either.

[Dunbar]

I'm not a big fan of moving the WCC to the end of the season.

The analogy to the NFL conference finals is a false one as everyone accepts that the big prize in these games is the Super Bowl appearance and not the conference championship itself. If we try and make the WCC the prize for a Grand Final win (in either hemispheres but in particular the NRL) then we have no chance of success.

I feel that the current international window is the best end to the domestic season... move from the big club prizes to the international tournaments. Any club games after the Grand Finals will fizzle out due to clubs being uncommitted. 

Let's leave the WCC where it is and try and improve on it.

Finally, I do agree that synchronising the start and end times of the NRL and Super League seasons should add real benefits. 

[Hela Wigmen]

20 minutes ago, Allora said:

I would not sell anything to the Hearn's and I doubt the power brokers in the NRL will either.

That’s the BDO Darts approach and they’re doing grand. 

[THE RED ROOSTER]

Apart from the fact that it's a logistical nightmare to set up the WCC two weeks after the respective grand finals. You also have tio contend with player burnout. All too often International Rugby League has been devalued by the loss of key players with series become a set of games between the last players standing.

Super League plays too many games becuse the owners are wedded to gate money and maximising local derbies - Quantity over quality with loop fixtures. So if you want to co-ordinate the season's as was the original Super League vision in 1996,  it's a Super League problem not the NRL's

Martyn, you say the WCC disrupts Super League, does it not also disrupt an NRL club's pre-season training. It is regarded as a trial game down under and often blamed for a sluggish start by the WCC winners in the NRL by Aussie commentators. The fact that NRL teams monopolise the competition with their first hit out recently, as compared to the noughties, only underlines the declining standard of Super League where the game has regressed over the last decade.

The idea that the WCC should become the centrepiece of the season in both hemispheres supplanting international rugby league is the road to damnation for the game IMO.

[Hela Wigmen]

Could we actually align the seasons? The NRL has 24 rounds from mid-March to September, with very few blank weekends. I’m sure one Origin game is a weekend game, so I imagine there’s no games that weekend to take nothing away from the magnitude of the occasion. The NRL don’t have a cup competition, so we would have to incorporate the blank weekends into the season, so you’re adding another 4-5 weekends to our season, so we’d be starting a similar time to what we do now anyway. 

 

[The Future is League]

1 hour ago, Allora said:

Why play it away from either Clubs fan base?

Well it always appears to be played very often away the NRL clubs fan base.

[Allora]

1 minute ago, The Future is League said:

Well it always appears to be played very often away the NRL clubs fan base.

Where would that be?
It is not a Club fan base but a State fan base.

[The Future is League]

7 minutes ago, Allora said:

Where would that be?
It is not a Club fan base but a State fan base.

Its only ever been played 5 times in Australia.

This years crowd was the lowest since 2001.

It needs a radical rethink when its played and where its played

[Mattrhino]

3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

How would they compete with the GF?

The conference championships in the NFL dknt do badly  because the SUperbowl exists?

no one gives a toss about the conference championships other than they are a semi final with a chance to get to the SB

[Click]

5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

that just isnt true is it. 

Yes it is - All they are is a route to the Super Bowl - suggesting otherwise is silly.

Super Bowl = Everything in NFL

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

No it isnt. While the super bowl is the obvious top prize that doesnt make the conference championships meaningless.

The Average NFL viewing figures are about 15m per game, the conference championship gets 50m with tickets going for between $500 and $900 on secondary markets. 

It's a semi final 

[The Great Dane]

The only thing that is going to make the WCC grow into the big event it could be is if the NRL and NRL clubs truly buy into it and start taking it seriously. The only way that is going to happen is if the WCC is proven to be a highly profitable product in both hemispheres and for an extended period of time.

Here's the catch-22 though, as things are at the moment the WCC will never be proven to be a big sell in Australia because the NRL clubs won't host it (unless they are forced to) until they are certain that it'll be profitable before hand, and because they refuse to host it it's impossible to prove to them that it's a profitable event with staying power in Australia.

The only way to break that catch-22 that I can think of is for the ESL clubs to prove that it's a valuable event to the NRL club's by hosting it in Australia!

Every second year have an English club (or better the RFL it's self) host it in Australia. If it's really successful and the ESL clubs make good money out of it here in Australia then eventually the NRL clubs will want to get in on the action for the money alone, and if it isn't successful then it'll fades away and we can move on to something else that the NRL clubs will buy in on.

[Sports Prophet]

9 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

!

Every second year have an English club (or better the RFL it's self) host it in Australia. If it's really successful and the ESL clubs make good money out of it here in Australia then eventually the NRL clubs will want to get in on the action for the money alone, and if it isn't successful then it'll fades away and we can move on to something else that the NRL clubs will buy in on.

That’s not a bad idea actually. Fraught with financial danger though. Especially when the SL clubs struggle to sell out a WCC in their own backyard.

[Martyn Sadler]

On 28/02/2020 at 05:23, Copa said:

After the NRL GF it’s season over and to back up again for the WCC would have all the excitement of a 3rd V 4th match that some World Cups have.

You mean like the first official World Club Challenge on 4th October in 1989, when Widnes played Canberra Raiders at Old Trafford in front of more than 30,000 spectators in a match that was played just ten days after the NRL Grand Final.

That game attracted widespread attention way beyond the usual Rugby League media and it was one of the greatest events I've attended. It played a key role in persuading us to launch League Express less than a year later.

But, as always in Rugby League, the game didn't adequately develop what was a brilliant concept.

Another point about that game, incidentally, was that it was refereed by a French referee, Francois Desplas. So what happened to French referees?

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Martyn Sadler said:

in 1989

31 years ago.

An aside: Old Trafford's capacity at the time was around 56,000. So the greatest club game in history (or whatevs) half-filled a football stadium. Did the game make any money?

[The Great Dane]

2 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

You mean like the first official World Club Challenge on 4th October in 1989, when Widnes played Canberra Raiders at Old Trafford in front of more than 30,000 spectators in a match that was played just ten days after the NRL Grand Final.

That game attracted widespread attention way beyond the usual Rugby League media and it was one of the greatest events I've attended. It played a key role in persuading us to launch League Express less than a year later.

But, as always in Rugby League, the game didn't adequately develop what was a brilliant concept.

Another point about that game, incidentally, was that it was refereed by a French referee, Francois Desplas. So what happened to French referees?

The very same game that most of the Raiders players vocally protested playing in because they wanted a break after a hard season and the short turn around and schedule meant that they didn't even get a chance to get over the hangover from the partying after winning the GF, let alone the jet lag once they actually got to the UK.

Replicating that silliness would be a great way to make sure that the Players Union murders the WCC where it stands.

[Martyn Sadler]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

31 years ago.

An aside: Old Trafford's capacity at the time was around 56,000. So the greatest club game in history (or whatevs) half-filled a football stadium. Did the game make any money?

It really doesn't matter if it was 131 years ago, the game got roughly twice the crowd that we saw last weekend and got great coverage for Rugby League.

I'm sure it did make money, but I'll leave you to check the details.