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Havenwarrior

Ruck and PTB

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After the Ref last night allowed an absolute free for all at the Ruck and PTB, what can we expect tonight. Surely we can’t have already forgot the Brief that was issued pre season, to clean up this blight on the game.

 

But 5 weeks into season and we are back to normal. 

 

HW

Edited by Havenwarrior
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I thought about posting this exact post pretty much. Some of the PTB's were awful to watch - The whole advice that the clubs and players were supposed to be following seems to have been chucked away, and it is back to 2019 again (not that the 2020 rules really cleaned it up much)

I think the only 2020 rule that seems to be enforced is if the player who plays the ball falls over or gets "pushed" down while playing it, it will be a knock on rather than a penalty to them.

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To be honest, I don't care what they do as long as it's consistent. It's hard to know what is right and what is wrong as a fan so it must be even worse for the players.

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1 minute ago, Click said:

I thought about posting this exact post pretty much. Some of the PTB's were awful to watch - The whole advice that the clubs and players were supposed to be following seems to have been chucked away, and it is back to 2019 again (not that the 2020 rules really cleaned it up much)

I think the only 2020 rule that seems to be enforced is if the player who plays the ball falls over or gets "pushed" down while playing it, it will be a knock on rather than a penalty to them.

It is a toss up which one they give though - a couple were penalties and a couple were knock-ons. To be fair these new rules haven't made it easy for referees either.

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18 minutes ago, LR23 said:

To be honest, I don't care what they do as long as it's consistent. It's hard to know what is right and what is wrong as a fan so it must be even worse for the players.

Play the ball with your foot . The NRL have conquered that conundrum . Take out the grey areas in the regulation and just get them doing it . It’s not splitting the atom- they can do it . They do what they do now because they’re allowed to . Make the law  clear , get more structure in the ruck and they’ll do it . There won’t be a penaltyathon, the NRL nailed it rapid . Now I know our game isn’t as good but I’m damn sure we can match them in playing the ball . We ignore it , they do as they please . We’ve become so obsessed with ruck speed it’s become a complete farce . But conversely you can play the ball correctly and still get a fast game 

Edited by DavidM
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6 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Play the ball with your foot . The NRL have conquered that conundrum . Take out the grey areas in the regulation and just get them doing it . It’s not splitting the atom- they can do it . They do what they do now because they’re allowed to . Make the law  clear , get more structure in the ruck and they’ll do it . There won’t be a penaltyathon, the NRL nailed it rapid . Now I know our game isn’t as good but I’m damn sure we can match them in playing the ball . We ignore it , they do as they please 

Did you see the All Stars game last week? A supremely entertaining game, fast and furious with proper PTBs.

Problem is the officialdom here is weak and led by a dud in Steve Ganson. 

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I don't say this lightly but I am finding the game over here increasingly frustrating to watch, when the NRL starts in a couple of weeks I may turn there exclusively for my Rugby League fix.

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3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Problem is the officialdom here is weak and led by a dud in Steve Ganson. 

I genuinely don’t understand why you’d introduce a new regulation , fanfare it as number one in the list of changes for the season , then completely ignore and forget it and no one comes out and says anything ?

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The RFL did not announce new rules this year, they simply said the existing rules would be enforced. Many contributors predicted that the players would ignore the RFL and carry on regardless, and unsurprisingly they were right. So now the ball is back in the RFL`s court. If they think the officials can`t deal with this during a game, put any player wilfully rolling and deliberately stepping over the ball on report. It`s a pity that appeals to professional integrity are unavailing, but if the RFL have the testicular fortitude to heavily fine the offenders and their coach, they can sort this out.

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31 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I genuinely don’t understand why you’d introduce a new regulation , fanfare it as number one in the list of changes for the season , then completely ignore and forget it and no one comes out and says anything ?

It’s amazing to see so much disregard from the officials, SL and the players.  

I expected to see a step change, especially at the beginning of the season, but the few games I’ve seen have shown no change.

Frankly, it looks a mess.

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9 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The RFL did not announce new rules this year, they simply said the existing rules would be enforced. Many contributors predicted that the players would ignore the RFL and carry on regardless, and unsurprisingly they were right. So now the ball is back in the RFL`s court. If they think the officials can`t deal with this during a game, put any player wilfully rolling and deliberately stepping over the ball on report. It`s a pity that appeals to professional integrity are unavailing, but if the RFL have the testicular fortitude to heavily fine the offenders and their coach, they can sort this out.

https://www.superleague.co.uk/article/1214/on-field-changes-for-2020

There was a change announced.

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34 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I don't say this lightly but I am finding the game over here increasingly frustrating to watch, when the NRL starts in a couple of weeks I may turn there exclusively for my Rugby League fix.

Having watched the All Stars games and various other highlights on the NRL website, I feel exactly the same. One upside of our ongoing debacle is a stronger realisation of just how integral a correct, skilful PTB is to RL.

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8 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

It’s amazing to see so much disregard from the officials, SL and the players.  

I expected to see a step change, especially at the beginning of the season, but the few games I’ve seen have shown no change.

Frankly, it looks a mess.

It is optimistic to expect real change when the rule is ambiguous.

The referee would probably defend himself by saying that he believes they were all ''making an attempt'' to play the ball with the foot so its ok. 

An objective rule, with statements like, ''must stand up'' and ''must play the ball with the foot'' removes any room for mealy-mouthed ''interpretation''.

This rule sounds like it was written by a 7 year old and quite frankly its embarrassing. 

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What's with their bizarre obsession with making the game as fast as possible anyway?  It's led to a less-skilled game because teams have too many opportunities to make easy metres without needing any real skill to make those metres due to the other team's defense not having time to get back onside ready to defend.

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The worst thing for me is that the refs are clearly ignoring the PTB. They know if they penalise one incorrect PTB they're making a rod for their own back, and for all other ref's.

The pedant in me would like one of the SKY team to point out every incorrect PTB and shame them into enforcing it.


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Every announcement before the season started was about interpretation and not the laws.

And this 'make an attempt' interpretation is the root of the problem.

As mentioned already. The law says use the foot to play the ball so penalise if a player doesn't. Then the ref has a bit of discretion on those players that tried to play the ball correctly but didn't. 

But just saying they have to look like they made an attempt is crazy. Do we offer discretion for those players that made an attempt to show they made an attempt to play the ball correctly. 

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7 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

It is optimistic to expect real change when the rule is ambiguous.

The referee would probably defend himself by saying that he believes they were all ''making an attempt'' to play the ball with the foot so its ok. 

An objective rule, with statements like, ''must stand up'' and ''must play the ball with the foot'' removes any room for mealy-mouthed ''interpretation''.

This rule sounds like it was written by a 7 year old and quite frankly its embarrassing. 

The wording you quote is the same as in the NRL rulebook, and it works fine at all levels of the game in Australia. The difference is they did not allow a rot to set in.

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As i have said before the marker should have to take a stride back to create space.Then if the play the ball is untidy give a #### to defending team,if no proper attempt is made to put the ball back down on the ground and play it with the foot give a penalty.Close marking at the P.T.B.dates back to when the marker was also allowed to strike for the ball as soon as it touched the floor which some players often did.

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8 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The wording you quote is the same as in the NRL rulebook, and it works fine at all levels of the game in Australia. The difference is they did not allow a rot to set in.

Look, either you have to play it with your foot, or you don't.

There is no point in muddying the water.

It's laughable to leave it up to the referees interpretation and opens the door for fudging and whining and cajoling and spoiling and downright cheating.

Its sickening, when with a few choice words, what's expected could be completely objective and thereby, beyond any doubt.

For a National Governing Body to get it so wrong is cringe-worthy.

I'm just waiting for our enemies to start taking the p...... 

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23 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Could it be that the RFL have brought the change in, the Referees have toured the clubs and explained how they would adjudicate and SL has got hold of the clubs & Refs and said ‘just ignore it’.

The players are unmistakeably ignoring the RFL, whether licensed to or not. They may just be calculating that if they collectively, en masse, flout the rule, then the officials are powerless to act without ruining the game. If there is a law of the land that the majority of the population break, the courts can`t put tens of millions in jail, hence the law is honoured only in the breach.

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4 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Look, either you have to play it with your foot, or you don't.

There is no point in muddying the water.

It's laughable to leave it up to the referees interpretation and opens the door for fudging and whining and cajoling and spoiling and downright cheating.

Its sickening, when with a few choice words, what's expected could be completely objective and thereby, beyond any doubt.

For a National Governing Body to get it so wrong is cringe-worthy.

I'm just waiting for our enemies to start taking the p...... 

Understand your desire for absolute clarity, and if this is the only way then so be it. But we can see in other countries that when the players are conscientious and competent as standard, the officials can exercise discretion without prompting a general degeneration. Ours is the only RL where this has been allowed to happen.

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41 minutes ago, EastLondonMike said:

The worst thing for me is that the refs are clearly ignoring the PTB. They know if they penalise one incorrect PTB they're making a rod for their own back, and for all other ref's.

The pedant in me would like one of the SKY team to point out every incorrect PTB and shame them into enforcing it.

I'm sure various warrington players were also guilty of this, but watching toronto last week, matty russell's legs looked like he was an open head prop with the ball being fed when he was playing the ball.

 

He was bloody awful at it when he was a wire player, love them scoots(to a point) but he found it very difficult to stand up and play the ball, many many knock ons.

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Sky want a quick game without too much whistle, Sky also want to have feigned 'controversy' over refs and any rule that is being ignored. Hence this is what we have. Its a turn off

You can tell who are the recent Aussie imports as they are the ones who are standing out as they at the very least trying to stand up, standing straight and have the foot very close or on the the ball as it should be when playing it. 

Ganson and the RFL must be completely toothless or have their orders

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