International RL and Tv money

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

Why can’t we make any decent tv money from our international game. Our Four Nations tournament had big attendances and good ratings, surely tv companies should be shelling out cash to show the tournament.

Sky are reportedly bidding £300m to get coverage of the RU Six Nations, why can’t we even get say 10% of that figure for a RL Four Nations?

[Toby Chopra]

Just now, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Why can’t we make any decent tv money from our international game. Our Four Nations tournament had big attendances and good ratings, surely tv companies should be shelling out cash to show the tournament.

Sky are reportedly bidding £300m to get coverage of the RU Six Nations, why can’t we even get say 10% of that figure for a RL Four Nations?

Did it? As I remember it the biggest TV audience we got was about 1.5 mln which for free terrestrial is really poor, and stadiums weren't sold out. 

Plus we can't sign up to a 6 year deal cos we can't deliver the guarenteed opposition for that period. No way to build a brand or viewing habits. 

[Damien]

15 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Did it? As I remember it the biggest TV audience we got was about 1.5 mln which for free terrestrial is really poor, and stadiums weren't sold out. 

Plus we can't sign up to a 6 year deal cos we can't deliver the guarenteed opposition for that period. No way to build a brand or viewing habits. 

The Four Nations was only ever on Sky.

[Chris22]

Interesting to see the comparison to the Six Nations. The rugby union community is deeply worried about it going behind a paywall and fear drifting away from the public psyche. A lot of the blame seems to be at the door of CVC (private equity company).

For us, the best thing we have done in recent years is getting our internationals back on the BBC, really positive to have all World Cup matches live on BBC with over half on the main channels.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

The Four Nations was only ever on Sky.

No it wasn't. England v Australia in 2009 was definitely on BBC.

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

No it wasn't. England v Australia in 2009 was definitely on BBC.

Fair enough and now you mention it the later Four Nations were indeed on the BBC after it had started off on Sky.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

34 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Did it? As I remember it the biggest TV audience we got was about 1.5 mln which for free terrestrial is really poor, and stadiums weren't sold out. 

Plus we can't sign up to a 6 year deal cos we can't deliver the guarenteed opposition for that period. No way to build a brand or viewing habits. 

Is 1.5 million viewers poor? What does the Six Nations get? 

[gingerjon]

10 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Is 1.5 million viewers poor? What does the Six Nations get? 

Wales v England last year got 8.9m - although they aren’t usually that high. On the same day France v Scotland got 4.2m.

1.5m would be our high point, not the average.

[Eddie]

9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The 6 nations has been played for more than 100 years

The 4 nations was played 5 times in 8 years and then done

Precisely, it’s like comparing the Leyland Daf Trophy with the World Cup. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

24 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Wales v England last year got 8.9m - although they aren’t usually that high. On the same day France v Scotland got 4.2m.

1.5m would be our high point, not the average.

So we get somewhere between 17% and 35% of the tv viewers they get, why can’t we get 10% of the tv revenue they get? 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

14 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The 6 nations has been played for more than 100 years

The 4 nations was played 5 times in 8 years and then done

The 4 Nations should be played every year, but that’s not the point of this thread. 

[Themusician_2]

25 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Is 1.5 million viewers poor? What does the Six Nations get? 

Depends on the fixture https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/huge-tv-audience-tuned-watch-15885449e

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

2 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said:

Depends on the fixture https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/huge-tv-audience-tuned-watch-15885449e

If those RU viewing figures are attracting £300m bids, surely our viewing figures of 1.5 million should also be attracting big tv money. 

[Mr Frisky]

We still dont know how much money was made from the mid season England game they played V Samoa in 2017 that was pay for view on line.......

[Eddie]

53 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

One thing is for certain though in my opinion.

International RL is far more ripe for private investment than SL.

Look at the value of international rights and if you can build an international game there is a tonne of money to be made. 

Your payback for a £200m investment in international RL could be far greater than that of SL

Payback from a £200m investment? Have you been drinking Scotchy?

[Yakstorm]

Ratings from the last Four Nations in the UK, including Peak & Average:

The reason why League can't get big money for Internationals is because of the following:

- We can't guarantee what will be played, when it will be played or who is in it. We are slowly improving with the regional tournaments, like Euro, MEA, Oceania & Americas Championships, having them every 2 years in even years, but there is still no confirmation if the likes of NZ, Australia & England will take part in any of them, or when they will.

- We don't play in the same timezones or times year in, year out. For the 6 Nations, Rugby Championship, etc, as a broadcaster I know how many games are going to be played, how many are at 'home' or in favourable timeslots and roughly when games will take place. 

- It's often sold off as a value add by the RFL and NRL to boost the overall value of their rights.

If England played a tournament, at home, every year, they would get TV monies for it. Even if it was just England, France & Wales. They don't, and thus there is no regular product for TV to buy.

We are our own worse enemies when it comes to this because we don't know how to create value, or a perception of value, as a sport. 

[Futtocks]

25 minutes ago, Yakstorm said:

Ratings from the last Four Nations in the UK, including Peak & Average:

The reason why League can't get big money for Internationals is because of the following:

- We can't guarantee what will be played, when it will be played or who is in it. We are slowly improving with the regional tournaments, like Euro, MEA, Oceania & Americas Championships, having them every 2 years in even years, but there is still no confirmation if the likes of NZ, Australia & England will take part in any of them, or when they will.

- We don't play in the same timezones or times year in, year out. For the 6 Nations, Rugby Championship, etc, as a broadcaster I know how many games are going to be played, how many are at 'home' or in favourable timeslots and roughly when games will take place. 

- It's often sold off as a value add by the RFL and NRL to boost the overall value of their rights.

If England played a tournament, at home, every year, they would get TV monies for it. Even if it was just England, France & Wales. They don't, and thus there is no regular product for TV to buy.

We are our own worse enemies when it comes to this because we don't know how to create value, or a perception of value, as a sport. 

The big audience pull is Australia, because they have won so many of the international trophies over the last 30+ years.

But Australia always seem reluctant to commit to anything that isn't NRL or Origin. At least not well in advance, which is the sign of a sport complacent in their own territory.

The BBC have shown their interest in International RL, with their planned coverage of the next RWC.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

8 hours ago, Futtocks said:

The big audience pull is Australia, because they have won so many of the international trophies over the last 30+ years.

But Australia always seem reluctant to commit to anything that isn't NRL or Origin. At least not well in advance, which is the sign of a sport complacent in their own territory.

The BBC have shown their interest in International RL, with their planned coverage of the next RWC.

The stats don’t back up Australia been the big audience pull. England v Scotland, England v New Zealand and England v Australia all attracted very similar viewing figures. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

11 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

We still dont know how much money was made from the mid season England game they played V Samoa in 2017 that was pay for view on line.......

As we haven’t returned downunder for a mid season test, or had any other game on pay per view, you can presume the ourleague pay per view made a loss. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

9 hours ago, Yakstorm said:

Ratings from the last Four Nations in the UK, including Peak & Average:

The reason why League can't get big money for Internationals is because of the following:

- We can't guarantee what will be played, when it will be played or who is in it. We are slowly improving with the regional tournaments, like Euro, MEA, Oceania & Americas Championships, having them every 2 years in even years, but there is still no confirmation if the likes of NZ, Australia & England will take part in any of them, or when they will.

- We don't play in the same timezones or times year in, year out. For the 6 Nations, Rugby Championship, etc, as a broadcaster I know how many games are going to be played, how many are at 'home' or in favourable timeslots and roughly when games will take place. 

- It's often sold off as a value add by the RFL and NRL to boost the overall value of their rights.

If England played a tournament, at home, every year, they would get TV monies for it. Even if it was just England, France & Wales. They don't, and thus there is no regular product for TV to buy.

We are our own worse enemies when it comes to this because we don't know how to create value, or a perception of value, as a sport. 

Sky pay around £1m a week for their Super League and Championship coverage. Surely these viewing figures could blow that out of the water. International rights should not be allowed to be sold as extras by either the RFL or NRL, they should be our premium big money making product.

It seems so simple, if we play regular international tournaments, we will be able to bring so much more money into the sport. RU are selling for £300m with viewing figures about x3 to x5 times ours. Imagine if International RL could bring in £60m (1/5 of that figure) it would transform the sport. Yet England haven’t played a game, never mind a home game for what seems like an eternity. International RL needs to become priority number 1 on the agenda. 

[Mark S]

15 hours ago, Chris22 said:

Interesting to see the comparison to the Six Nations. The rugby union community is deeply worried about it going behind a paywall and fear drifting away from the public psyche. A lot of the blame seems to be at the door of CVC (private equity company).

For us, the best thing we have done in recent years is getting our internationals back on the BBC, really positive to have all World Cup matches live on BBC with over half on the main channels.

The BBC would still pleasure themselves over the 6 Nations whichever channel it was televised.

[Bert1]

Much rather watch Eng vs then any club fixture finals included.

[Dave T]

Let's be honest, those figures are pretty good. They are test matches with little context to the general public, little promotion, next to no coverage in advance from the BBC and the scheduling was all over the place. 

That figure for England v Scotland should really give some of those people obsessed with Ashes series a wake-up call.

There is a decent base level there and huge potential for growth. 

And I fully agree with SKS's stance on this that we shouldn't be including all this stuff in main tv deals. 

[North but south]

I'm currently in mexico and was surprised to see the six nations advertised on their local tv. RU is selling to countries with no domestic rugby, or any displayed anywhere but we seem to struggle to sell coverage in France for a French team.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, North but south said:

I'm currently in mexico and was surprised to see the six nations advertised on their local tv. RU is selling to countries with no domestic rugby, or any displayed anywhere but we seem to struggle to sell coverage in France for a French team.

You are mixing up tv coverage of a single club with international games.