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Ottawa Aces (Merged Threads)

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Stadium has a 24,000 capacity and they are expecting crowds of 3,500. Must be an expensive hire but shows ambition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TD_Place_Stadium


PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF http://www.rugbyleaguecares.org/ and http://www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/article/8790/join-team-wales-for-2013

Predictions for the future -

Crusaders RL to get a franchise for 2012 onwards -WRONG

Widnes Vikings also to get a franchise - RIGHT

Crusaders RL to do the double over Widnes and finish five places ahead of them -WRONG

Widnes Vikings NOT to dominate rugby league in years to come! STILL TO COME

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/cardiffdemonsrlfc/

http://www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/

I promise to pay �10 to the charity of Bomb Jacks choice if Widnes Millionaires finish above the battling underdogs Crusaders RL. I OWE A TENNER!

http://www.jaxaxe.co...89/Default.aspx

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36 minutes ago, jannerboyuk said:

Stadium has a 24,000 capacity and they are expecting crowds of 3,500. Must be an expensive hire but shows ambition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TD_Place_Stadium

Hopefully  it won't feel too empty, at least there's plenty of room for them to grow into it if it takes off. To be fair I think finding suitable stadia is more difficult in Canada. In the UK we're spoilt by an abundance of grounds.

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10 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Your just making excuses for inaction, really. This is Toronto not Timbuktu. Rugby is a well established sport.

The Wolfpack could have easily started a low key, low cost local ‘academy’ (perhaps with help from CRL volunteers) by now. Even if at first it’s just a few dozen young lads training on a Saturday morning that would still be worthwhile as it plants a seed of growth. 

Yet nothing as yet. So far all we’ve had is warm words on local player development but talk is cheap. Do they actually want to develop Canadian players?

They need juniors first before that happens

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21 minutes ago, fevtom said:

Hopefully  it won't feel too empty, at least there's plenty of room for them to grow into it if it takes off. To be fair I think finding suitable stadia is more difficult in Canada. In the UK we're spoilt by an abundance of grounds.

Not really.  Almost all stadiums here can accommodate a full-length field of play with a full depth (i.e. 10 metre) goal area just like Aussie stadiums can, you have hardly any stadiums over there which can do that.

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3 hours ago, manu266 said:

Great story, I totally ignored this. Beliveau's favourite dep* was also mine near my office and his residence in Longueuil. You could see the admiration and respect of locals when they had a chance to line up with him at the cashier. But I don't think a lot of Montrealers would remember that Quebec As story. Yet maybe it's another sign that Ottawa Aces wants to add a French touch to test the Quebec market.

XIII in the logo, a French coach (maybe), bilingual tweets and website. Quebec media are already translating the RFL and League One terms, something Toulouse and Catalans don't bother to do.

I can see the Aces taking a game to Montreal as soon as the first season... if they find a compliant stadium.

Dep = dépanneur =  convenient store in both Quebec French and Quebec English

It seems very strange to me that Toulouse and Catalans don't bother to translate such things, do they have a clue about marketing and promotion?  Do you have links to any of those French reports about Ottawa?

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3 hours ago, manu266 said:

Toronto on top because they have a team in every major sports, then probably Vancouver 2nd (hockey, football, soccer, minor baseball, lacrosse), Montreal 3rd (hockey, football, soccer) 

then several cities tied, Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg, all because of their NHL team.

2 cities have a pro football team but no pro hockey, Hamilton and Regina.

Quebec city has no pro sport at the moment, except an independent league baseball team. University and junior hockey have a big following in cities without pro or major sport, comparable to pro sport attendance and tv ratings to some extent.

I would put Montreal ahead of Vancouver.

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11 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

What exactly do you want them to do, force their way into schools knock all of the hockey sticks and basketballs out of the kids hands and force them all to take a Steeden.

It's simply not that easy, and it's going to take some time before they're in a place where things can really start moving.

Firstly, why the hell do you think that RU would help them. There'd be nothing in it for RU.

And how could they possibly identify and develop talent in partnership with the Canadian RL when there're no junior competitions for the talent to come from! 

Seriously, are they going to get it from Canadian Rugby League competitions, because, (with all due respect to our Canadian friends, I'm honestly not knocking them, just being realistic) but their competitions are amateur park footy competitions. Maybe there are some diamonds in there (it does happen from time to time), but if there was anybody that looked like they had the potential to become a professional sportsman playing amongst them then they almost certainly would have been picked up by another sport before they got to the point of playing amateur park RL.

Maybe they could siphon some talent off of other sports, but to get people worth having that are young enough would be very expensive, and once they get this talent where exactly are they going to develop it? 

Not only are there not any development competitions in Canada, but there probably aren't even enough clubs with the resources necessary to form one. So even if they could source talent out of thin air, it wouldn't do them much good because they have none of the infrastructure or tools necessary to develop that talent into professionals, and you can't just build or buy that infrastructure overnight. It's going to take years just to develop that infrastructure. 

Why is this so hard for some people to understand, I mean Jesus mate, they are starting from nothing, literally building up from the dirt.

They can't just go down to the local juniors carnival, scout a bunch of talent, and then feed that into a development system, because unlike in Australian and England, no local juniors clubs exist to hold a carnival and there's no system for them to go into. 

They are literally starting at the point of trying to finding volunteers willing to put in the time and effort to try to find enough interest to start clubs, and that's going to take time, there's really no way to rush it, and it'll be years before any club that does form are at a point where there's enough interest to start regularly producing talent.

Yep about 3 generations at least, - couldn't be bothered reading what Perez said he spouted a load of tosh last time he was in the limelight, but I will give him credit in recognising there are enough over here to swallow his bile and keep him in a job - but I did see the resume that someone posted that quoted Perez saying player's will be produced in a generation, as you say to even get people interested enough to participate in this game to initialize even a crumb of an infrastructure and then put all the rungs on the ladder from the base floor level to producing professionals will not happen overnight. 

Both Toronto and now Ottawa are at the same position on the production of Canadian nationals, the former is in SL and Ottawa will be hoping to get there as soon as possible and it will be the hope to produce homegrown talent to play at the very top level of the N. Hemisphere Rugby League.

Do people actually realise from all the 1000's of kids who first pick up a rugby ball how many make it to one of 12 academies, and from those circa 200 player's in the academy teams the numbers who convert to be a Super League player, the numbers are very small indeed. So to put everything in place in Canada will be as I say 3 generations if it indeed gets of the ground at all, I am not certain that it will, until then we will have to recognise that 'expansion' is just people turning up to watch some players from far away shores performing.

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3 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Crowd counting seems to float his boat.

Blowup dolls.

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46 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

It seems very strange to me that Toulouse and Catalans don't bother to translate such things, do they have a clue about marketing and promotion?  Do you have links to any of those French reports about Ottawa?

French marketing loves using English. C'est in, c'est bath... (another Ottawan disco reference here...)

Toulouse # = image.png.7b753c718ef7adc0ad93018fd8599e39.png

See Radio Canada article https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1655456/aces-ottawa-rugby-professionnel-nouvelle-equipe-2021-oseg

They actually only translated Tier 3 League One by 3ème division de la Première Ligue… not convinced… Ligue 1 is better non? But they haven’t translated RFL or Super League, yet.

The trend is not translating acronyms anymore. Quebec media use LNH for NHL, LCF for CFL but they stick to MLS and other leagues have left or were never in Quebec. They use the full French name though, Ligue Majeure de Soccer, Ligue nationale de Football… when they have too.

Super Ligue, would be ok, (Le) Championnat would already be weird, and then how do we or should we translate RFL?

The team name should be translated by les As d’Ottawa, not les Aces (only used in Tennis in French), I haven’t seen it used yet.

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30 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Do people actually realise from all the 1000's of kids who first pick up a rugby ball how many make it to one of 12 academies, and from those circa 200 player's in the academy teams the numbers who convert to be a Super League player, the numbers are very small indeed. So to put everything in place in Canada will be as I say 3 generations if it indeed gets of the ground at all ...

I fear that you are right about that timeline, especially without the sport being in schools or universities.  The only hope right now is to create an academy (maybe between the three potential North American teams). This could be used for full-time intensive conversion of athletes from RU and gridiron. They could be based in the UK part of the year, to get game practice, and the rest of the time in the Americas. They could even make it a reality show out call it something like "My Try" or "Last Try", or "Last Tackle" .. oh wait. 

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34 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yep about 3 generations at least, - couldn't be bothered reading what Perez said he spouted a load of tosh last time he was in the limelight, but I will give him credit in recognising there are enough over here to swallow his bile and keep him in a job - but I did see the resume that someone posted that quoted Perez saying player's will be produced in a generation, as you say to even get people interested enough to participate in this game to initialize even a crumb of an infrastructure and then put all the rungs on the ladder from the base floor level to producing professionals will not happen overnight. 

Both Toronto and now Ottawa are at the same position on the production of Canadian nationals, the former is in SL and Ottawa will be hoping to get there as soon as possible and it will be the hope to produce homegrown talent to play at the very top level of the N. Hemisphere Rugby League.

Do people actually realise from all the 1000's of kids who first pick up a rugby ball how many make it to one of 12 academies, and from those circa 200 player's in the academy teams the numbers who convert to be a Super League player, the numbers are very small indeed. So to put everything in place in Canada will be as I say 3 generations if it indeed gets of the ground at all, I am not certain that it will, until then we will have to recognise that 'expansion' is just people turning up to watch some players from far away shores performing.

So when Hemel and Oxford (to name a couple of places) left League 1 that wasn't contraction?

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2 hours ago, fevtom said:

Hopefully  it won't feel too empty, at least there's plenty of room for them to grow into it if it takes off. To be fair I think finding suitable stadia is more difficult in Canada. In the UK we're spoilt by an abundance of grounds.

We tend to have big (CFL/MLS) stadiums, or "stadiums" not much more than bleachers at a high school, with not a whole lot in between. Our equivalent to you is that we have a hockey arena in pretty much every town with more than a few thousand people, in England those would all be 1-5000 seat soccer fields. 

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yep about 3 generations at least, - couldn't be bothered reading what Perez said he spouted a load of tosh last time he was in the limelight, but I will give him credit in recognising there are enough over here to swallow his bile and keep him in a job - but I did see the resume that someone posted that quoted Perez saying player's will be produced in a generation, as you say to even get people interested enough to participate in this game to initialize even a crumb of an infrastructure and then put all the rungs on the ladder from the base floor level to producing professionals will not happen overnight. 

Define "generation" 😉 

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6 minutes ago, TheReaper said:

 

Define "generation" 😉 

I guess if we are going on generations, things may move along quicker if folk start to follow the lead of Andy Farrell and Denis Betts.

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7 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yep about 3 generations at least, - couldn't be bothered reading what Perez said he spouted a load of tosh last time he was in the limelight, but I will give him credit in recognising there are enough over here to swallow his bile and keep him in a job - but I did see the resume that someone posted that quoted Perez saying player's will be produced in a generation, as you say to even get people interested enough to participate in this game to initialize even a crumb of an infrastructure and then put all the rungs on the ladder from the base floor level to producing professionals will not happen overnight. 

Both Toronto and now Ottawa are at the same position on the production of Canadian nationals, the former is in SL and Ottawa will be hoping to get there as soon as possible and it will be the hope to produce homegrown talent to play at the very top level of the N. Hemisphere Rugby League.

Do people actually realise from all the 1000's of kids who first pick up a rugby ball how many make it to one of 12 academies, and from those circa 200 player's in the academy teams the numbers who convert to be a Super League player, the numbers are very small indeed. So to put everything in place in Canada will be as I say 3 generations if it indeed gets of the ground at all, I am not certain that it will, until then we will have to recognise that 'expansion' is just people turning up to watch some players from far away shores performing.

That's fair enough but we need to actually see progress at grassroots level for RL in Canada we haven't seen it. And with the apathy towards the grassroots game I can’t  see it improving anytime soon . If things continue this way in 3 generations they'll still be no Canadian talent coming through.

Edited by Themusician_2
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Just now, Big Picture said:

It seems very strange to me that Toulouse and Catalans don't bother to translate such things, do they have a clue about marketing and promotion?  Do you have links to any of those French reports about Ottawa?

 

There are some strong laws in Québec regarding the use of english in the public space. I assume the use of translated terms have more to do with that than some kind of marketing genius.

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52 minutes ago, TheReaper said:

We tend to have big (CFL/MLS) stadiums, or "stadiums" not much more than bleachers at a high school, with not a whole lot in between. Our equivalent to you is that we have a hockey arena in pretty much every town with more than a few thousand people, in England those would all be 1-5000 seat soccer fields. 

Yeah exactly what I was getting at in a less eloquent way. It makes sense to have one decent sized flexible stadium per city but it does mean any new Canadian team has to decide if they're ambitious enough to use it or whether to go for a cheaper high school type venues. In this case I'm glad Ottawa are playing at a decent stadium.

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1 minute ago, fevtom said:

Yeah exactly what I was getting at in a less eloquent way. It makes sense to have one decent sized flexible stadium per city but it does mean any new Canadian team has to decide if they're ambitious enough to use it or whether to go for a cheaper high school type venues. In this case I'm glad Ottawa are playing at a decent stadium.

That is the issue many Canadian cities are dealing with do we build a big new nice stadium or do we go the cheap route.

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1 hour ago, TheReaper said:

We tend to have big (CFL/MLS) stadiums, or "stadiums" not much more than bleachers at a high school, with not a whole lot in between. Our equivalent to you is that we have a hockey arena in pretty much every town with more than a few thousand people, in England those would all be 1-5000 seat soccer fields. 

Define "generation" 😉 

20 years

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22 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Any reason why the Canadian clubs steer clear of union when talking about local recruitment?

None at all, but I'm sure you'll come up with one.

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5 hours ago, jannerboyuk said:

Stadium has a 24,000 capacity and they are expecting crowds of 3,500. Must be an expensive hire but shows ambition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TD_Place_Stadium

3500 fans in a 24000 capacity stadium - our crowd counting brethren are gonna have a MUCH harder time with the Aces than they do with the Wolfpack. Off to Specsavers, you know who you are!

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Just now, Loup said:

3500 fans in a 24000 capacity stadium - our crowd counting brethren are gonna have a MUCH harder time with the Aces than they do with the Wolfpack. Off to Specsavers, you know who you are!

My guess is they will do the same as with the soccer and only open up the south stands unless there is much higher demand.

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1 hour ago, Gambass said:

 

 

There are some strong laws in Québec regarding the use of english in the public space. I assume the use of translated terms have more to do with that than some kind of marketing genius.

Bit of both. Ottawa, technically, is in Ontario but it's right on the Quebec border. Many people who work in Ottawa, which is of course the capital of Canada, actually live in Quebec.

Quebec law mandates French as the official business language and by law must be prominent in public signage and so on. All Canadian federal departments and organizations are bilingual (including banks and national airlines, for example). Even though Ottawa isn't in Quebec, it's a government town and it's typical to use a lot of French for all those reasons.

 

 

 

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What a lot of fans fail to appreciate is that RL, like other pro sports and mass market entertainment ventures, is a certain percentage "sport" and a certain percentage "show business".  Die hard fans would claim it's almost 100pct sport and casual fans would say closer to a 50/50 proposition. To get the great game established professionally in outposts like Canada the Wolfpack for example went for the 50/50 model getting great crowds, a large impact media presence with a stated goal of getting into SL in 5 years and accomplishing that objective in 3 years. The Aces can take the longer view thanks to a lot of the heavy lifting having being done.When the NY RL team comes in I hope there will be a joint effort to establish a pathway for interested Canadian and American players...but it will take a decade or two unless college and university programs can accelerate the process. I think it's worthwhile..heartland fanatics may not agree so but the alternative is to see the game shrink compared to RU and that would be sad to see.

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Just now, RobertAM said:

What a lot of fans fail to appreciate is that RL, like other pro sports and mass market entertainment ventures, is a certain percentage "sport" and a certain percentage "show business".  Die hard fans would claim it's almost 100pct sport and casual fans would say closer to a 50/50 proposition. To get the great game established professionally in outposts like Canada the Wolfpack for example went for the 50/50 model getting great crowds, a large impact media presence with a stated goal of getting into SL in 5 years and accomplishing that objective in 3 years. The Aces can take the longer view thanks to a lot of the heavy lifting having being done.When the NY RL team comes in I hope there will be a joint effort to establish a pathway for interested Canadian and American players...but it will take a decade or two unless college and university programs can accelerate the process. I think it's worthwhile..heartland fanatics may not agree so but the alternative is to see the game shrink compared to RU and that would be sad to see.

I hope Ottawa taps into the Montreal market i think not only will a fair amount of fans come to Ottawa but maybe even have a game there maybe at Molson Stadium.

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First post here so sorry for length, I have been viewing this forum for a long time.

I moved out to Vancouver from the UK in 2009. My kids have gone through the BC High School system where they played (Gridiron) Football and RU, my eldest actually played RU at the provincial level (same group as Quinn Ngawati), but chose to take a gridiron university scholarship, he plays on one of the country’s top university teams. My other son graduated high school last year, he plays university RU. As a result of watching my kids I can say there are a staggering number of talented athletes playing high school RU at grades 11 and 12, however nearly all of them stop playing on graduating high school, usually because they are good enough to earn athletic scholarships at universities playing other sports, there are few that continue playing RU and of course there are no RL clubs to attract them.

I have attended several RU high school championships with my sons and am surprised that no one from the Wolfpack has ever been present, I would have thought that if you wanted to find potential Canadian talent then the BC High Schools Provincial RU Championships would be a good place to start given that a. BC is the strongest province for RU in Canada and b. You would get a lot of interest from kids (and families) if you offer the potential of a pro contract given that the lack of money in Canadian RU is a prime factor in kids quitting (also university RU, most players not on any scholarships, those that are its often only $1,000).

I was hopeful that Ottawa would attempt to at least tryout this young Canadian talent, it appears that they may just try to be Wolfpack 2.0.

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