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Jayme2020

Ottawa Aces (Merged Threads)

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14 hours ago, LR23 said:

You are assuming everyone lives in Rochdale or wherever they are based. There will be players from across the north, Aus and NZ who will need to move anyway. If I was moving I’d rather move to Ottawa than Rochdale (no offence to Rochdale).
 

It’s an adventure because it’s a different lifestyle, climate and way of life. Not sure how the climates compare but I spent a year in Norway and loved every minute of it. I’m sure it would be an easy sell to a fair few young players and even a few older ones with families who fancy a change.

What does the LR stand for in your nic name?

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54 minutes ago, SL17 said:

What does the LR stand for in your nic name?

I'm LondonRed on the Salford boards but that name had already been taken here. I played football for many years as number 23 (big Materazzi fan!) and added that to fill the name out. 

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On 12/03/2020 at 01:53, Man of Kent said:

OK, good. Now we’re getting somewhere. 

What would the development officers do? Get a few dozen lads together to train and play, possibly at a rugby club(s), playing each other and growing from there, perhaps?

They might get a few dozen lads together to train and play in a rep/development camp, maybe 15-20 years from now when they have the talent to justify it and a system for them to fed into. Honestly, I'm starting to better understand why RL is such a small regional sport in England lol.

Seriously though, it really depends on their budget, but, in a perfect world where they've got reasonable funding, they'd begin with going around to the current RL clubs in Ontario and helping them get the resources and equipment that they need to run teams in multiple age groups as well as juniors. Find volunteers and help them to get the qualifications and training necessary to become coaches, refs, first aid people, etc. Help organise good insurance for the clubs and players.

Then once they've had a bit of success with that they'd pivot their focus to getting more people involved in playing, by helping to organise and set up promotional events aimed to get people to try the sport, booths at Wolfpack and Aces matches with information on what to do to get involved, fan days with the Wolfpack and Aces, training camps for kids in the school holidays, etc. If/when there's enough demand, go around to other sports clubs and try to get them to run RL teams, and help any new RL clubs that pop up to get started. If they are really ambitious, and they think there's enough demand, try to get RL into the scholastic sports system.

Long term, once they've actually got a juniors system in place and it's more or less self-sustaining, they'd pivot their focus again to mainly developing juniors into professionals through a system of junior rep teams and training camps (similar to your one), but that is a long way away.

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18 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

There are a million things that can be done, cap dispensations, something akin thr NFL international player pathway, you could have a joint centrally run academy for wales and canada that isnt affiliated to a club but plays in the academy comp.

It is ridiculously inefficient to have Toronto run a standard youth development process when the majority of players who come through that process wont be good enough but unlike SL club academy players who drift down the leagues they are largely just lost to the game.

There is also the matter that if you want to see players come from other sports it's going to be much more efficient to take 30 and assign three each to the other 10 academies so they are playing with, training with and playing against the right level of player and how 3 or 4 make it than dumping a squad of 30 canadians and seeing them get beat by 70pts a game and nobody making it.

The only thing I'd add is why only do it with the academies in England.

If you could get your players into the most competitive and effective systems in world why wouldn't you? 

I'm not knocking the English academies or anything like that (I honestly don't know enough about them to knock them), but if you had the option to get some of your players into one of the better systems in the world, like Brisbane/SEQ or Penrith for example, you'd be mad not to, and I reckon that the Wolfpack are in a position where that is more than possible.

I mean Huddersfield are basically doing just that with the Raiders, sure it's on a small scale, but why not try it with some of the other clubs as well.

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5 hours ago, LR23 said:

I'm LondonRed on the Salford boards but that name had already been taken here. I played football for many years as number 23 (big Materazzi fan!) and added that to fill the name out. 

And your mother's maiden name, please?

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3 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

And your mother's maiden name, please?

I’m on the edge of my seat waiting to find out why he wanted to know 🤷‍♂️

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3 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

The only thing I'd add is why only do it with the academies in England.

If you could get your players into the most competitive and effective systems in world why wouldn't you? 

I'm not knocking the English academies or anything like that (I honestly don't know enough about them to knock them), but if you had the option to get some of your players into one of the better systems in the world, like Brisbane/SEQ or Penrith for example, you'd be mad not to, and I reckon that the Wolfpack are in a position where that is more than possible.

I mean Huddersfield are basically doing just that with the Raiders, sure it's on a small scale, but why not try it with some of the other clubs as well.

i think you would, but again that needs to be a more centralised thing through the NRL. There needs to be some sort of dispensation and encouragement to ensure these players are allowed to learn. 

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On 11 March 2020 at 23:46, TIWIT said:

Another thread hijacked by the nay-sayers and doom-and-gloomers who probably complain about having to clean up the mess on Christmas morning.

CAN YOU CLOWNS NOT GIVE IT A REST FOR A DAY OR TWO?

Most fans with open minds see opportunity knocking here. Others...

Sad. Just so, so sad.

 

If you came from a bus stop in a deprived Wigan suburb,you'd be sad and miserable too.

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On 12/03/2020 at 11:04, SL17 said:

What does the LR stand for in your nic name?

Lover of Rochdale?

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Rugby League: Alive and Handling

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10 hours ago, Davo5 said:

If you came from a bus stop in a deprived Wigan suburb,you'd be sad and miserable too.

Nice 

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8 hours ago, ojx said:

Aces sure dodged a bullet by not starting in 2020.

Good point.

Of course, by 2021 there might to be anyone left in L1 and just a few in the Championship and even SL. Ottawa might find themselves in SL by default.

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On 12/03/2020 at 16:07, The Great Dane said:

They might get a few dozen lads together to train and play in a rep/development camp, maybe 15-20 years from now when they have the talent to justify it and a system for them to fed into. Honestly, I'm starting to better understand why RL is such a small regional sport in England lol.

Seriously though, it really depends on their budget, but, in a perfect world where they've got reasonable funding, they'd begin with going around to the current RL clubs in Ontario and helping them get the resources and equipment that they need to run teams in multiple age groups as well as juniors. Find volunteers and help them to get the qualifications and training necessary to become coaches, refs, first aid people, etc. Help organise good insurance for the clubs and players.

Then once they've had a bit of success with that they'd pivot their focus to getting more people involved in playing, by helping to organise and set up promotional events aimed to get people to try the sport, booths at Wolfpack and Aces matches with information on what to do to get involved, fan days with the Wolfpack and Aces, training camps for kids in the school holidays, etc. If/when there's enough demand, go around to other sports clubs and try to get them to run RL teams, and help any new RL clubs that pop up to get started. If they are really ambitious, and they think there's enough demand, try to get RL into the scholastic sports system.

Long term, once they've actually got a juniors system in place and it's more or less self-sustaining, they'd pivot their focus again to mainly developing juniors into professionals through a system of junior rep teams and training camps (similar to your one), but that is a long way away.

To be clear I didn’t say anything about training camps or junior rep teams - that was your (incorrect) interpretation - but I agree with much of the rest so I’ll leave it there. 

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10 minutes ago, Jayme2020 said:

The  Aces plan on holding try outs this fall in Ottawa.

And I gather it is exclusively for Canadian athletes.

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OTTAWA ACES is an interesting one and in fact maybe an easier market than Toronto or even harder (It could go either way)  one also has to remember through that they have a CFL team the Redbacks who attract an average of around 21/23000 a match at the same stadium and League 1 rugby (With no disrespect to the clubs and those playing) is light years away from SL.

My worry is that there are not enough sports fans (Unlike Toronto who can attract a whole new fan base) and that the quality will be compared to the CFL in terms of fitness and skill by the market that they are looking to attract.

I hope I am making sense here maybe not 😞

 

Paul

 

Edited by ATLANTISMAN

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31 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

OTTAWA ACES is an interesting one and in fact maybe an easier market than Toronto or even harder (It could go either way)  one also has to remember through that they have a CFL team the Redbacks who attract an average of around 21/23000 a match at the same stadium and League 1 rugby (With no disrespect to the clubs and those playing) is light years away from SL.

My worry is that there are not enough sports fans (Unlike Toronto who can attract a whole new fan base) and that the quality will be compared to the CFL in terms of fitness and skill by the market that they are looking to attract.

I hope I am making sense here maybe not 😞

 

Paul

Ottawa on its own does have enough sports plus being very close to Montreal and some from Toronto will make the trip the team will do fine maybe better then fine.

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2 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

OTTAWA ACES is an interesting one and in fact maybe an easier market than Toronto or even harder (It could go either way)  one also has to remember through that they have a CFL team the Redbacks who attract an average of around 21/23000 a match at the same stadium and League 1 rugby (With no disrespect to the clubs and those playing) is light years away from SL.

My worry is that there are not enough sports fans (Unlike Toronto who can attract a whole new fan base) and that the quality will be compared to the CFL in terms of fitness and skill by the market that they are looking to attract.

I hope I am making sense here maybe not 😞

Paul

You are indeed making sense.

On the one hand, after Toronto Ottawa is the next most demographically favourable market over here for Eric Pérez's concept of North American teams playing in the English league structure against teams which are mostly from smallish towns which are mostly unknown over there.  I'd even say that apart from those two cities his concept is a non-starter anywhere else over here.

On the other hand, Ottawa is much smaller than Toronto and the demographics of the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) which were and are so favourable to the Wolfpack only exist to a lesser degree in Ottawa, so whether the same concept will fly there as well remains to be seen.

Edited by Big Picture

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I have a hard time seeing much success because it's such a niche, and I don't know if there are enough people to fill that niche. 

Mainstream sports fans have the NHL and CFL teams.

CFL fills that "summer contact sport" niche. The RB's are also fairly new and relatively successful. No comparison to the Argos, they're known for bringing in the young hip party crowd that Argos can't figure out and that the Wolfpack scooped up. Perhaps there will be some crossover in April-May before CFL gets going?

Ottawa had the Fury for the not-so-mainstream, European leaning crowd, playing in the USL (I think?) and getting 3-5k in attendance. Now they've been replaced by Atletico Ottawa in the CPL, which should bring back all the casual soccer fans, increase fans from people who are interested in playing against other Canadian cities, and increase fans who are really into the European aspect. Same stadium, more familiar sport. Same time of year.

So what's left are:

Actual rugby fans, and I imagine there's a split of those who don't care what kind of rugby it is and will attend, and those who will give league a pass. Now that Toronto has had both types of pro rugby for a couple years I can't see anybody in the Ontario rugby community falling into the old "nobody knows there's 2 kinds of rugby" camp. I bet a lot of the "rugby" people who are into attending live pro sports are already RedBlacks fans.

People who are already either RB's or soccer fans who crave more summer live sports, but the other sport (of CFL or soccer) doesn't appeal. Football fans who want more sports but look down on soccer, or soccer fans who want more sports but look down on football.

And lastly, people who aren't into any of the above sports, but something about RL is going to get them into it. No idea how big that market is. And I haven't even touched on the effects of the new basketball team, or any minor league baseball, since I know nothing about those.

Playing at TD Place is somewhat of a double-edged sword. It's obviously a net benefit, it's the only professional quality stadium available and gives some immediate legitimacy. But, for anyone who just wants to "go to a game and have some beers" without caring too much what the game is, they can already do that, at likely fuller games with more atmosphere. Ticket prices may play a factor to this crowd, but not too much if you're there to drink $9 beers all night.

 

I keep coming back to thinking, if Fury soccer, a well known but semi-non-mainstream sport, in a minor league, could only get 5k average attendance at best, I fail to see how rugby league, a not-known-at-all sport, in a minor league from another continent, will manage to get close to that. Of course, in a RL context, if they can sustain a 3k average that's an unqualified success, but that's nowhere near enough to cover the costs of playing in an English league against teams that can't/won't pay their own way here. It wouldn't even cover their own travel.

 

Edit: after all that, I didn't actually comment on the tryouts! good to see that they're doing them, and that they specifically mention non-rugby players. I bet they get quite a lot of guys coming up from Montreal, they have a decent club RU scene and football is big in Quebec in general.

Edited by TheReaper
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TheReaper

Keep in mind the Fury played in the USL even avg 5000 put them as one of the top supported markets as most avg less 3000 alos the Fury only did open up a small mart of the stadium part of the reason for this is cost.

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