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Nope, and just to correct you saying Huddersfield were a yo-yo club, we got relegated in 01, promoted 02 and have been there since so hardly yo-yo if your interpretation of it is clubs who have gone down once and up once.

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9 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

I don't live in Shropshire , I live in Santander.

What are you doing to expand SL in Santander then?

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On 06/03/2020 at 17:58, dkw said:

Yes, I've always thought 3 years exemption from relegation was key. A club can then soend 2 seasons building the squad, bring young players up to speed et, rather than having to get whatever was left available as they often enter the player market after the existing SL clubs. 

And along with the OP pointing out the Yo- Yo effect of up and then down completely highlights that we have not got enough player's of SL abillity to furnish enough clubs, when a club eventually gains promotion i.e. the last game of the season there are not enough players available on market to entice, player's will not wait to sign a contract or take a chance of signing one to early save their 'new' employer's do not get promoted. 

Toronto are feeling it this year, just look at the ex SL player's in their squad it is those who are surplus to requirement of SL clubs, good enough to gain promotion but seemingly and collectively at the bottom of SL.

Then scrap P&R some say but I would challenge that, last year we as fans were treated to a very engossing and intriguing battle to avoid the drop, and I think we will have much the same this season, in the Championship the race for promotion was very good clubs with clubs jockeying for position and it even went down to the last 20 minutes of the season, this year I expect it to be even moreso entertaining.

Please explain how you would work your 3 year exemption from relegation, could other clubs still be relegated? If so by the end of the 3 year of the first club gaining promotion we could have 3 teams "on exemption" that is 25% of the current number of teams in the division, is that feasible?

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6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

Please explain how you would work your 3 year exemption from relegation, could other clubs still be relegated? If so by the end of the 3 year of the first club gaining promotion we could have 3 teams "on exemption" that is 25% of the current number of teams in the division, is that feasible?

I await the reply to the above with interest. 

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Simply comes down to the fact that like football we have 3 categories of clubs

1. a clutch of top clubs who but for a few minor blips will never be out of the top 10 on the pitch,

2. a clutch of clubs who can challenge for that top table on their day and are consistently building towards that. 

3. A group of clubs who are just happy to be in SL at the end of the day. Generally these clubs are interchangeable in terms of fanbases, finances etc as the top Championship sides.

It is possible to move between these levels but RL is no different to any other sport with PR that there is a tough battle to stay in the top after having earned promotion 

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13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Simply comes down to the fact that like football we have 3 categories of clubs

1. a clutch of top clubs who but for a few minor blips will never be out of the top 10 on the pitch,

2. a clutch of clubs who can challenge for that top table on their day and are consistently building towards that. 

3. A group of clubs who are just happy to be in SL at the end of the day. Generally these clubs are interchangeable in terms of fanbases, finances etc as the top Championship sides.

It is possible to move between these levels but RL is no different to any other sport with PR that there is a tough battle to stay in the top after having earned promotion 

That is very true Tommy, but I would say on your first category you are being a bit lenient with a view to were your club has found themselves in the last season or three, I would change that to say 'A clutch of top clubs who should never find themselves outside the top 6. 

But irrespective, I have mentioned the 'entertainment' value that I believe we derive and get from having P&R, you don't mention it in your post do you think we should keep the present format?

Whatever my respect is, the game is not just about the top 6 clubs they will go along and do what they do best and have a mini league within the league and challenge each other for the honours available as they do year after year, we also have 12 clubs below that elite pocket, 6 in SL who's season could relatively be on shutdown by the end of June without jeopardy (except for as you put it an occadional blip), and another 6 who could strive to be the best in their division but that is a weak prize compared to promotion. And without that promtion availability I do not think that those guy's Chairmen/Owner's who invest in "getting to the promised land" would be as generous as they are now, in the last round of the closed shop the competition in the Championship was not that good, crowds were a abysmal and it was feeling and looking like a bad tooth decaying away, since the re-introduction in '15 of P&R the Championship as grown and is still growing both in quality and popularity, so the question again Tommy do you find the present way our league system functions is entertaining or would you adopt some other method?

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54 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And along with the OP pointing out the Yo- Yo effect of up and then down completely highlights that we have not got enough player's of SL abillity to furnish enough clubs, when a club eventually gains promotion i.e. the last game of the season there are not enough players available on market to entice, player's will not wait to sign a contract or take a chance of signing one to early save their 'new' employer's do not get promoted. 

Toronto are feeling it this year, just look at the ex SL player's in their squad it is those who are surplus to requirement of SL clubs, good enough to gain promotion but seemingly and collectively at the bottom of SL.

Then scrap P&R some say but I would challenge that, last year we as fans were treated to a very engossing and intriguing battle to avoid the drop, and I think we will have much the same this season, in the Championship the race for promotion was very good clubs with clubs jockeying for position and it even went down to the last 20 minutes of the season, this year I expect it to be even moreso entertaining.

Please explain how you would work your 3 year exemption from relegation, could other clubs still be relegated? If so by the end of the 3 year of the first club gaining promotion we could have 3 teams "on exemption" that is 25% of the current number of teams in the division, is that feasible?

Yes, I do think it's feasible, it will certainly mean certain teams will no longer need to just rely on being the 2nd worst team in the league anymore. We will see more teams getting into SL, and those teams then have time to nurture young players and feed them into the first team. A knock on effect will also see the championship strengthen too. 

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3 minutes ago, dkw said:

Yes, I do think it's feasible, it will certainly mean certain teams will no longer need to just rely on being the 2nd worst team in the league anymore. We will see more teams getting into SL, and those teams then have time to nurture young players and feed them into the first team. A knock on effect will also see the championship strengthen too. 

So by the end of year 3 it could be the 9th placed club who would be relegated? in the last 3 season's that would have been in order  Wakefield, Leeds and Warrington.

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1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

So by the end of year 3 it could be the 9th placed club who would be relegated? in the last 3 season's that would have been in order  Wakefield, Leeds and Warrington.

Yes. 

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I’ll get a load of grief for this, I imagine and I can see why, especially from fans or lower league clubs, I’d probably do the same if I were in their shoes but do we really need promotion and relegation? 

Of the 37 clubs we have in our game, we have about 14 who are fully professional, another couple who are hybrid sides who could probably be self funded at full-time professional level in the short-term and then the rest are part-time and are a mixture of solid community clubs, development clubs and some who are living week by week trying to survive.

Realistically, how many clubs can get promoted from the Championship? 
 

* I’ll just go and put my tin hat on *

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2 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I’ll get a load of grief for this, I imagine and I can see why, especially from fans or lower league clubs, I’d probably do the same if I were in their shoes but do we really need promotion and relegation? 

Of the 37 clubs we have in our game, we have about 14 who are fully professional, another couple who are hybrid sides who could probably be self funded at full-time professional level in the short-term and then the rest are part-time and are a mixture of solid community clubs, development clubs and some who are living week by week trying to survive.

Realistically, how many clubs can get promoted from the Championship? 
 

* I’ll just go and put my tin hat on *

You have not give us a conclusion as to why you have to don your armour.

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49 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I’ll get a load of grief for this, I imagine and I can see why, especially from fans or lower league clubs, I’d probably do the same if I were in their shoes but do we really need promotion and relegation? 

Of the 37 clubs we have in our game, we have about 14 who are fully professional, another couple who are hybrid sides who could probably be self funded at full-time professional level in the short-term and then the rest are part-time and are a mixture of solid community clubs, development clubs and some who are living week by week trying to survive.

Realistically, how many clubs can get promoted from the Championship? 
 

* I’ll just go and put my tin hat on *

The benchmark for me is how many clubs - gifted a spot in superleague - could average minimum 4k attendance per home game. If they can't reach that, even with a SL place, then they're not going to be financially viable, and actually damage the sport by swapping places with even the weakest current SL club. (Which financially is probably Salford) 

At best, I reckon there's maybe 8 clubs below SL level who could hit that. London and Newcastle aren't one of those, but they are financially bankrolled by rich owners. So maybe 10 tops. 

That said, because attendance revenue is proportionally more important below SL level, the viable promotion candidates tend to be the ones in the mix anyway, so ignoring the wider arguments for ring fencing, I don't think yo-yo-ing is a bad thing. And the same applies between Championship and L1. 

In a narrow sense, the structure kinda works. 

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No P&R but rigorously enforced criteria required to be met to get/stay in SL, with a full review of each club's performance (on and off field) every 2 or 3 years. If the club doesn't make the grade - they're out or at least put on notice.

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40 minutes ago, TBone said:

No P&R but rigorously enforced criteria required to be met to get/stay in SL, with a full review of each club's performance (on and off field) every 2 or 3 years. If the club doesn't make the grade - they're out or at least put on notice.

So it all becomes a balance sheet rather than sporting exercise. Brilliant, you might as well support an insurance company. 

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16 hours ago, Eddie said:

What are you doing to expand SL in Santander then?

Nothing.  But what I am not doing either is trying to derail a discussion by making pedantic statements which turn out to be wrong (minimum doesnt mean every player) and then making disengenuous comparions between one human with no money and an owner of a transatlantic franchise who has the resources to develop players.

But thanks for your illuminating input. 

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7 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Nothing.  But what I am not doing either is trying to derail a discussion by making pedantic statements which turn out to be wrong (minimum doesnt mean every player) and then making disengenuous comparions between one human with no money and an owner of a transatlantic franchise who has the resources to develop players.

But thanks for your illuminating input. 

On the contrary, you are trying to spend someone else’s money and telling then what they should be doing with it. If Argyle, or anyone else, would rather pump money into their first team and not youth that’s their business not yours. 
 

Also if you say something vague like minimum it would be helpful if you can clarify what you mean. Even a SL team with four Canadians wouldn’t win a game. 

Edited by Eddie

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So when I said that,  in a hypothetical discussion about relegation and promotion,  that exemptions to relegation should be given to non uk teams for minimum quotas you either were too dense to realize what that meant.  

Then you said you wouldnt watch  (despite games against 4 non uk teams a season being a fraction of your season and ignoring that, shockingly, expansion doesnt mean ottowa vs Toronto or catalans vs toulouse with native players is designed to appeal to saints fans).

After which your objection was the cost,  which the owner clearly has and would be necessary to end up with the expansion of a player pool to finally... "what are you doing then Huh?" As if that is a gotcha in a hypothetical discussion. 

If that is genuine engagement then I would hate to see what tedious bore looks like.  

To save us both time,  all future responses will read "please see previous message" 

Edited by ShropshireBull

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The original list misses out Wakefield being promoted in 1998, subsequent relegation is it to Promoted sides makes Wakefield’s achievement in staying up so much more Impressive

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3 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I’ll get a load of grief for this, I imagine and I can see why, especially from fans or lower league clubs, I’d probably do the same if I were in their shoes but do we really need promotion and relegation? 

Of the 37 clubs we have in our game, we have about 14 who are fully professional, another couple who are hybrid sides who could probably be self funded at full-time professional level in the short-term and then the rest are part-time and are a mixture of solid community clubs, development clubs and some who are living week by week trying to survive.

Realistically, how many clubs can get promoted from the Championship? 
 

* I’ll just go and put my tin hat on *

Should we not split the game into full time and part time? 

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36 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

The original list misses out Wakefield being promoted in 1998, subsequent relegation is it to Promoted sides makes Wakefield’s achievement in staying up so much more Impressive

There was no relegation the following year. Huddersfield merges with Sheffield

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7 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

Should we not split the game into full time and part time? 

It already is, there are full time and part time clubs. If a part time club is better than a full time one then that’s the full time club’s problem. 

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