French forward players

[The Daddy]

Wondering why France aren't producing big enough or good enough forward players at the moment. It's been mentioned before but their current crop of forwards with the exception of Bousquet are fairly small. 

Let's compare that to several years ago where they had Elima, Guisset, Raguin, Ferriol, Fakir, Borlin all big, robust and very physical forwards. That's a rough and tough pack of forwards. 

What's gone wrong? Where's the next batch of big talented forwards coming from? 

[winnyason]

I believe outside backs is more a a concern. Most french forwards hold there own yes there is some size issue, Springer there largest seems to still not developed to level needed for a superleague player. Far and away casty still the best french forward currently.

Toulouse whole pack bar barthau is all imports now. 

[Manfred Mann]

2 hours ago, winnyason said:

Toulouse whole pack bar barthau is all imports now. 

Not true. Forwards Maxine Puech, Clement Boyer and Justin Sangare were on the bench for Toulouse yesterday.

Catalans have scooped up most of the best French forwards — Casty, Bousquet, Garcia, Jullien, Simon, Baitieri, Maria, Belmas, and da Costa. 

Of course that is not a good situation, but there are a few good French forwards around not playing for Catalans. Apart from Toulouse players, Gadwin Springer is at Toronto, Romain Navarette is at Wigan (on year long loan to Wakefield), Eloi Pelissier is at London, and a few others are at Elite 1 clubs.

[Eddie]

I assume this thread is leading to a ‘Let’s get Toulouse in SL with no relegation’ debate. 

[winnyason]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

I assume this thread is leading to a ‘Let’s get Toulouse in SL with no relegation’ debate. 

Yeah not sure I believe we need another let's bash Toronto thread with leigh fans digging the boot in. 

[winnyason]

4 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

Not true. Forwards Maxine Puech, Clement Boyer and Justin Sangare were on the bench for Toulouse yesterday.

Catalans have scooped up most of the best French forwards — Casty, Bousquet, Garcia, Jullien, Simon, Baitieri, Maria, Belmas, and da Costa. 

Of course that is not a good situation, but there are a few good French forwards around not playing for Catalans. Apart from Toulouse players, Gadwin Springer is at Toronto, Romain Navarette is at Wigan (on year long loan to Wakefield), Eloi Pelissier is at London, and a few others are at Elite 1 clubs.

Yeah my bad, sangare looked good in highlights today. Maybe revisit the academy catalans side would benefit more. 

[The Daddy]

7 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

Not true. Forwards Maxine Puech, Clement Boyer and Justin Sangare were on the bench for Toulouse yesterday.

Catalans have scooped up most of the best French forwards — Casty, Bousquet, Garcia, Jullien, Simon, Baitieri, Maria, Belmas, and da Costa. 

Of course that is not a good situation, but there are a few good French forwards around not playing for Catalans. Apart from Toulouse players, Gadwin Springer is at Toronto, Romain Navarette is at Wigan (on year long loan to Wakefield), Eloi Pelissier is at London, and a few others are at Elite 1 clubs.

Collectively I don't think the current crop you mentioned has the physical presence of the group i mentioned from several years ago. For example, there isn't a single 2nd rower playing currently that has the size and speed of Raguin or can burst through tackles like Fakir. 

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

15 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Wondering why France aren't producing big enough or good enough forward players at the moment. It's been mentioned before but their current crop of forwards with the exception of Bousquet are fairly small. 

Let's compare that to several years ago where they had Elima, Guisset, Raguin, Ferriol, Fakir, Borlin all big, robust and very physical forwards. That's a rough and tough pack of forwards. 

What's gone wrong? Where's the next batch of big talented forwards coming from? 

Thanks for the thread, TD.  Your opening comment raises an interesting issue.  If they are 'good enough' does it matter how big they are?  I'm not sure, but I sometimes wish for a bit more brain and a bit less brawn from forwards.  Little 'uns can still be good tacklers, especially round the legs; the Saints' Frenchman, Theo Fages demonstrates that week-in-week-out.

Is the average height of people in the south of France less than the comparable figure for those from the north of England?  Again, I am not sure.  I suspect it once might have been, but I may be guilty of inaccurate, historical stereotyping.  And even if it once was the case, is it still true?  

That said, I notice that the great French team that toured in Australia in 1955 had 13 forwards, of whom only one was over six foot.  I wonder what was the average size of the southern hemisphere opposition they faced?

[RMBJ]

There's so much money in French RU is the actual answer. If you're French, big and can play rugby then there are 30+ fully professional RU clubs awash with cash that will likely spot you before RL has a chance to get involved and then even if they do develop in RL, it won't take long before a RU club with more money will take an interest. 

[Hvy wg]

There is only so much you can do with only 20 juniors team.

[barnyia]

Almost all  the forwards playing rl are small. My sons friend has gone to union at u14s and has said the main teams like Toulon and toulouse etc are huge even at under 14s not a player under 1m75, and some already measuring 1m85 and over 80 kilos they have the choice of a bigger player pool, and have the philosophy à good big un etc, it's like that in football too for the more well known teams. 

 

[welshmagpie]

14 hours ago, Hvy wg said:

There is only so much you can do with only 20 juniors team.

Is that all there is in France? 

[The Daddy]

On 08/03/2020 at 14:54, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

Thanks for the thread, TD.  Your opening comment raises an interesting issue.  If they are 'good enough' does it matter how big they are?  I'm not sure, but I sometimes wish for a bit more brain and a bit less brawn from forwards.  Little 'uns can still be good tacklers, especially round the legs; the Saints' Frenchman, Theo Fages demonstrates that week-in-week-out.

Is the average height of people in the south of France less than the comparable figure for those from the north of England?  Again, I am not sure.  I suspect it once might have been, but I may be guilty of inaccurate, historical stereotyping.  And even if it once was the case, is it still true?  

That said, I notice that the great French team that toured in Australia in 1955 had 13 forwards, of whom only one was over six foot.  I wonder what was the average size of the southern hemisphere opposition they faced?

Hey, not sure if the average height of people in South of France is the issue. It's more I believe to do with how rapidly club RU has grown in France in the past 20 years or so.

The biggest athletes are likely to be attracted to go to RU because of the money they can earn, alot more than in League. 

Add to that there is not much choice with only one top level club in France. 

[barnyia]

It's the money for older players but I've 3 players go to narbonne union from our u14s the main reason was that they're going to play against toulon and stade français etc. Now they're there they're amazed at the size of the players facing them, in my u19s team I've 3 players from narbonne and one from carcassonne on double license, rugby union comes first as they still believe they'll may make the first team, but it's sure next year when they're too old they'll be playing lower level union for double the money they'd get playing elite in league. Play elite 2 for free or 7th division for 400 euros a month?